Liveline, radio 1, mother of twins ejected

irishwheeler2

My boss came in after lunch telling us how disgraceful it was for a young mother of twins, to be ejected from her wheelchair reserved space on the accessible low floor bus, in favour of a wheelchair user. It seemed, at first, to be a real problem of King Solomon proportions, and I really wanted to hear viewer’s opinions. So the radio was tuned into liveline (yes Friday afternoons in work can be that dead!) and the tone seemed to draw this emotive picture (which I have no doubt will lead to a big compo claim) of this shattered young mother of two nine week old twins, who having paid her fare, was callously thrown off (in the pouring rain?) in favour of this lazy, wheelchair user with a superiority complex. For me as a wheelchair user, it all comes down to options and choice. That woman could have gotten another bus or (heaven forbid) had to fork out for a taxi (the money I have had to fork out for taxi’s over the years could finance a small country, and finding an accessible cab is sometimes akin to finding the proverbial needle) When the mother came back on to ask how, as we are all supposed to be treated equally, that this man ( what another caller condescendingly referred to as a “wheelchair person” which speaks volumes about her outdated views) was given priority over her, I thought to myself that the tables have turned, and that this woman has had a small taste of the difficulties experienced by wheelchair users on a daily basis. The world is many things, but it sure aint equal……..yet!

jam_mac_jam

Well I wouldnt have moved if I had been that woman, she was there first, why should she have to leave? There are plenty of times that buses are full and people have to wait for the next one, why exactly should it be different for somebody in a wheelchair?

mike65

It was a wheelchair bus so the wheelchair should get priority. Did'nt hear as I switched off as the topic began.

ps this is hardly a radio topic is it?

Mike.

Victor

jam_mac_jam wrote:

Well I wouldnt have moved if I had been that woman, she was there first, why should she have to leave? There are plenty of times that buses are full and people have to wait for the next one, why exactly should it be different for somebody in a wheelchair?

That space is reserved primarily for wheelchair users and other people are advised that they are likely to be moved.

I suspect someone with two babies on their lap wouldn't fit on that seat anyway.

We've spent a lot on making buses accessible and it would be a shame to waste them.

Note that a parent with young children also has accessibility needs. Dublin Bus estimate that 25% of their passengers are accessibility impaired.

jam_mac_jam

Victor wrote:

That space is reserved primarily for wheelchair users and other people are advised that they are likely to be moved.

I suspect someone with two babies on their lap wouldn't fit on that seat anyway.

We've spent a lot on making buses accessible and it would be a shame to waste them.

Note that a parent with young children also has accessibility needs. Dublin Bus estimate that 25% of their passengers are accessibility impaired.

Sorry, if it reserved for wheelchair users then she should have been moved I didnt realise that as i dont travel by bus.

monkeyfudge

mike65 wrote:

ps this is hardly a radio topic is it?

Ha... well Victor is more than welcome to it if he wants it.

But on the topic of wheelchair accessibility and radio... The wheelchair services on Dublin Bus got some nice coverage on Capital D last night as they showed some people from the Central Remedial Clinic using it to get to my own good radio station in Coolock to make their show.

tSubh Dearg

Moved to A/M/D from Radio. I thought about Transport too, maybe move it there if I was wrong in my choice.

havana

Dublin bus don't really make it very clear though

http://www.dublinbus.ie/about_us/accessibility.asp

''Every accessible bus has one priority space. This space is allocated for a wheelchair user and may also be used for a buggy. Only one wheelchair or buggy may occupy this space. Brakes should be applied on your wheelchair.
When a buggy is occupying this space, the child will be left in the buggy and the buggy's brakes should be applied. The parent or guardian should either sit or stand with the buggy. In the event of any difficulty please inform the driver.
Once the space has been occupied, a customer who wishes to board the bus with a further buggy must remove their child from their buggy and stow the buggy away safely. ''

Victor

The signage on the bus is clearer.

Edit: I have photos of this now and will post later.

Victor

There are 3 notices in the wheelchair area and another one at the front passenger seats.

“Please position wheelchair
facing rearwards with
back against the bulkhead.
Apply Brakes
P10”

“PRIORITY
This Priority Space
is for a wheelchair user.
It may be used by
an occupied buggy.

Please be prepared
to vacate
this space if requested.
P27”

“Please position occupied buggy
facing rearwards
and apply brakes.

Buggy must remain attended
at all times.
P26”

“Please give up this seat
If an elderly or disabled person needs it

Tabhair Suas an Suichan Seo
Ma ta aostach no michumasach in ghatar”

shltter

Just for the record

When low floor buses were introduced the position was that someone in a wheelchair had priority if they needed the spot then anyone in it had to vacate the spot including people with prams/buggies etc

Following this incident highlighted on RTE the unions in Dublin Bus sought clarification as the DB spokesperson on that show did not articulate that as the position.

The position now is that if a wheelchair user wants to board the bus and it is currently occupied by a buggy the driver should ask if the person is willing to remove the child from the buggy and fold it to make room for the wheelchair if they refuse the wheelchair user is to be informed that they must wait for the next available bus ( of course no gaurantee that the next bus will not have a buggy as well).

So effectively there is no priority for wheelchair users from now on it is completely at the discretion of the person with the buggy as to whether you get to board the bus.

To my mind this is a big step backwards for people in wheelchairs and their ability to use public transport I tought this would be of interest to people here and you may want to raise it with DB or the Dept of Transport.
For what it is worth i think it is an example of DB management not knowing what the current situation is and making it up as they go along without any tought for the implications for those it affects.

As someone has already mentioned it is about options and someone in a wheelchair has a lot less options than someone with a buggy and in my experience once people know that they no longer have to give the spot they will be more than happy to stay put and leave the wheelchair user to wait

Demonique

Oh boo, fricking hoo hoo, the person in the wheelchair didn't get a choice in becoming disabled, the mother of the twins had the choice in whether or not to s**t out some kids

Yet another case of someone thinking that just because they have kids it means the universe revolves around them

Victor

Demonique wrote:

Oh boo, fricking hoo hoo, the person in the wheelchair didn't get a choice in becoming disabled, the mother of the twins had the choice in whether or not to s**t out some kids

They have the habit of forcing their way out after 9 months.

In this case, both parties seemed to have some mobility impairment. The hierarchy of mobility impairments would suggest that the driver should have assisted the mother in moving (moving someone else if necessary also) to allow the wheelchair user on.

shltter

Victor wrote:

They have the habit of forcing their way out after 9 months.

In this case, both parties seemed to have some mobility impairment. The hierarchy of mobility impairments would suggest that the driver should have assisted the mother in moving (moving someone else if necessary also) to allow the wheelchair user on.

The vehicle is only licensed to carry one wheelchair OR one unfolded buggy/pram

so it is an either or either the pram stays up and the wheelchair user stays behind or the child/ren are removed from the pram and it is stowed and the wheelchair user is carried both cannot be carried at the same time. Dublin Buses guidelines now are that the person who got there first has the control of the bay if they want to leave the pram up then the wheelchair user must wait for the next bus that has an empty bay or someone willing to vacate the bay. As such DB have now decided that there is NO hierarchy it is first come first served.

Dublin Bus regulations for drivers are that they are not to leave the drivers cab to assist anyone if someone needs assistance they are to call control who will call whatever assistance is needed either an inspector the gardai or the ambulance/fire brigade etc.

RainyDay

Victor wrote:

. The hierarchy of mobility impairments would suggest

Is this heirarchy documented anywhere?

Victor

RainyDay wrote:

Is this heirarchy documented anywhere?

I'm sure it is, but someone in a wheelchair is obviously at a greater mobility disadvantage to the vast majority of people who aren't.

Agent Smith

tbh victors pictures seal it. its for people in wheelchairs.

Amz

Victor wrote:

I'm sure it is, but someone in a wheelchair is obviously at a greater mobility disadvantage to the vast majority of people who aren't.

That's the problem in Ireland, people lumping everyone into categories. "People in wheelchairs are worse off than x, y, z".
"All blind people can do x, y, z"
"You have a visual impairment so obviously because the last person we knew with a visual impairment needed x, y, z you must need it too"

You can't work like that when it comes to disabilities. Every single case is different.

I don't know the bus route in question, but if it was one where there is a high frequency of wheelchair accessible buses, like many of the routes in Dublin are now, then the wheelchair user should have been asked to wait for the next bus, just like anyone would be asked to do so if the bus was full.

I have mobility issues, yet no bus has special provisions for my particular circumstances. I don't complain to Joe Duffy because I have to learn to live with it, I have to learn to deal with the circumstances presented to me. I might not always be happy with it, but sometimes you have to be a little bit accommodating.

I don't know anyone who would be outraged and start a thread on this forum based on some of the stories I could tell you of my experiences with public transport.

People with a visible disability seem to find it easier to have their cases made for them, particularly wheelchair users as their situation seems to be more easily understood or empathised with by non-disabled individuals.

Victor

One thing that I saw in New York was that each bus had I think about 8 dedicated 'please vacate this seat ......' type seats in a contrasting colour, but more importantly it stated 'not every disability is visible'.

---

Dublin Bus and the bus manufacturing industry (not necessarily voluntarily) are making some efforts across a variety of disabilities and mobility impairments.

Low floor buses with wide entrances benefit most people, but especially people with wheelchairs, buggies, the elderly, those with luggage / shopping. Dublin Bus estimate 25% of their passengers are in these categories.

Handrails, grips and stairs nosings have been changed to high contrast colours to aid those with visual impairments and the use of illuminated "bus stopping" signs aids those with hearing impairments (and the lack of constant bell ringing also makes life easier for drivers).

Now there are still problems, like the above, together with legibility of route numbers and destinations and education issues like (especially older) people failing to avail of handrails

Amz

Victor wrote:

One thing that I saw in New York was that each bus had I think about 8 dedicated 'please vacate this seat ......' type seats in a contrasting colour, but more importantly it stated 'not every disability is visible'.

---

Handrails, grips and stairs nosings have been changed to high contrast colours to aid those with visual impairments.

None of these are in any way helpful if you haven't been able to get on the bus in the first place, because you couldn't see the number on the bus because the driver decides to either drive too fast approaching the stop or decides to stop 60 or 70 metres from the bus stop so that you can't see the bus number.

I've missed exams in college because of things like that, I've incurred fees from college becuase of that happening, Joe Duffy wouldn't give a toss though and neither would most people because for some reason disabilities like mine which aren't as visible as those of wheelchair users aren't emotive enough to deserve a soap box.