Declaring Hands

Primewise

There is a rule in poker which says that if you are called on the river, you must show you’re cards.

The casino’s in dublin rarely enforce this rule, and usually announce to both players “on their backs”. If the better was bluffing, they can usually avoid showing by just waiting for the caller to turn over his cards.

It really annoys me that casinos don’t ask the better to show because if I am playing at a cash game table and the guy might be bluffing me, I am paying to see his cards, sometimes to “keep ‘em honest”. He may be a tricky player and has been bullying people off pots and generally being over-aggressive and winning, and now he gets away without showing.

I might make a marginal call with a medium strength hand. I paid to see his cards and now I am expected to declare at the same time as him? If I have a very strong hand wait, I might get abuse from the other players for “slow-rolling”. When in actual fact this is not slow rolling at all, its just waiting for the better to show what he is required to show.


I think Dealers should instruct the better to turn over his cards. Its unfair for the caller to have to wait.

This rant is at dealers and rules in the casinos. A simple change from “Right, both of you declare you’re hands” to “You were called, show first” would be much better.

P.S. I can totally understand when a bluffer is trying to muck or mucks straight away, that’s only natural. When he insta-mucks or says “U Win…” then I know I was bluffed and that’s fine


Comments?

Tar.Aldarion

Cards should be shown left of the dealer.

BuChan

if you call someone and they want to muck their hand without showing obviously they were bluffing. it's bad etiquette to demand to see a losing hand and i hate when people ask me to see what i have after i concede the pot by gesturing to muck. well done you picked off my bluff, you win, next hand. i suppose we don't play poker to make friends and if you want to see all the hands you call down then just tell the better to show his hand and the dealer will make him do it as those are the rules.

El Stuntman

I'm with BuChan on this one. If it's a standard hand where I've been firing multiple bullets as either a total bluff or semibluff (and I've missed obv.) and you call me down, I muck and say 'nice hand' or somesuch and you demand to see my cards...I just see that as bad etiquette and nit-picking

Primewise

BuChan wrote:

if you call someone and they want to muck their hand without showing obviously they were bluffing. it's bad etiquette to demand to see a losing hand and i hate when people ask me to see what i have after i concede the pot by gesturing to muck. well done you picked off my bluff, you win, next hand. i suppose we don't play poker to make friends and if you want to see all the hands you call down then just tell the better to show his hand and the dealer will make him do it as those are the rules.

Yeah thats fine. Obviously if someone is trying to muck they were bluffing. Thats not what annoys me.

The problem is when I make a marginal call and I think I may be beaten, but he won't show (or even muck) , he just sits there until he finds out if he is beaten.

If you play online you know that you're hand is auto-displayed if you are called

charlesanto

Tournament & Cash rules are different !!!

In a tournament all live hands must be shown at show-down !

ozpoker

charlesanto wrote:

Tournament & Cash rules are different !!!

In a tournament all live hands must be shown at show-down !

Not according to the TDA. 2 rules apply:

Rule 9: All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete.

Rule 37: At the end of last round of betting, the player who made the last aggressive action in that betting round must show first. If there was no bet the player to the left of the button shows first and so on clockwise. In stud games, the player with the high board must show first. In razz, the lowest board shows first.

Overall, how a showdown procedes is a house rule. Some of the local tourney directors are making an effort to use the standardized rules that the TDA is promoting, and I applaud that.

-Oz-

ozpoker

BuChan wrote:

if you call someone and they want to muck their hand without showing obviously they were bluffing. it's bad etiquette to demand to see a losing hand and i hate when people ask me to see what i have after i concede the pot by gesturing to muck.

IMO, when you are in this situation and someone is waiting for you to table your hand when it's your turn, you shouldn't just gesture. You should either muck or table it. Don't force your opponent to guess what to do when he's obviously waiting for you.

The bad etiquette is asking to see a hand that's already mucked, even if the "anti-collusion" rules allow the request.


-Oz-

Macspower

I always declare instantly and if it's the winning hand I couldn't care less what he does with his cards....

In exceptional circumstances I will ask to see the cards but I think I've only done this very very few times...

I really hate when I push all in and get called and the guys says..." what have you got" I declare and then he turns over the nuts....

strewelpeter

Primewise wrote:

...better was bluffing

The Better is never bluffing...
The Pedants are revolting

careca

English lesson no 2 (Lose and Loose was No 1)

Bettor - Someone who places a bet
Better - Superior

ollyk1

I've twice had people fold better hands to me as they thought they were bluffing and I looked them up light. As a result I don't ask for people to show their cards in these situations.

Primewise

ollyk1 wrote:

I've twice had people fold better hands to me as they thought they were bluffing and I looked them up light. As a result I don't ask for people to show their cards in these situations.

So you sit there and wait for them to muck before declaring?

haha I like this tac.

Primewise

( tactic for all you pedants out there )

ollyk1

Primewise wrote:

So you sit there and wait for them to muck before declaring?

haha I like this tac.

No I loudly declare my hand (two pair say with a pair on the board*) before flipping over bottom pair sh1t kicker as the other guy mucks.


*Example chosen to annoy Rounders.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ollyk1

Buchan is a fecker for this. Constantly slowrolling me with bottom pair marginally better kicker after I make the hero call!!

Ace2007

hey guys quick question, kinda different angle this time. this happened in tourney other nite that i was playing.

Flop was J99 ( 2 clubs)

Player A bets, and player B calls

turn comes club, both players check

river comes blank, player A checks, and player B bets, and player A calls.

Player B shows flush, and player A declares its good and throws his cards face down, at this point, another player asks the dealer to show player A's cards and the dealer obligies and shows ( and tbh i dont think player A realised wat was happening. I'm just wondering...Should his hand be shown???

P.S on a side issue,

if you bet 400, and i put in 700(sayin nothing), is this just a call or taken to b a raise as its at least more than 50% raise of the previous bet, and therefore i have to put in 800 - this too happened in tourny last week, and dealer said that as its more than 50% it does in fact constitue a raise, however i know this rule never to apply in cash????

Ace2007

bump

JoeB-

I know of some players like this... never showing their hand regardless of whether they bet or called a bet...

Also players indicating (with a gesture) that they will muck but they don't... they wait for others to declare then muck losing hands but obviously show down what turns out to be a winning hand...

Whatever about people declaring quickly in the interests of the game, if some people abuse this it's their problem and the casinos should warn them if they do it consistently. I agree with the OP.

It's angle shooting... these people think they should declare last in every situation... saps.

califano

ollyk1 wrote:

No I loudly declare my hand (two pair say with a pair on the board*) before flipping over bottom pair sh1t kicker as the other guy mucks.


*Example chosen to annoy Rounders.

lol
yeah imo theres never any need to verbally declare a pair on the board.
I agree with primewises op.

Ace2007

again bump - does everyone just miss my post in this thread????

Ace2007

bump

Lplate

Ace2007 wrote:

hey guys quick question, kinda different angle this time. this happened in tourney other nite that i was playing.

Flop was J99 ( 2 clubs)

Player A bets, and player B calls

turn comes club, both players check

river comes blank, player A checks, and player B bets, and player A calls.

Player B shows flush, and player A declares its good and throws his cards face down, at this point, another player asks the dealer to show player A's cards and the dealer obligies and shows ( and tbh i dont think player A realised wat was happening. I'm just wondering...Should his hand be shown???

P.S on a side issue,

if you bet 400, and i put in 700(sayin nothing), is this just a call or taken to b a raise as its at least more than 50% raise of the previous bet, and therefore i have to put in 800 - this too happened in tourny last week, and dealer said that as its more than 50% it does in fact constitue a raise, however i know this rule never to apply in cash????

In 1 st situation any player at the table can ask for a (losing) hand to be shown at showdown. It's considered bad etiquette but can be done wthin the rules.
In 2nd, dealer was absolutely correct.

RedJoker

Situation 1 is allowed due to the anti-collusion rule, but is considered bad etiquette.

Situation 2, the dealer is correct unless ye play with a 700 chip . Just for another example, if the bettor had put in 600 and you threw in 2 500 chips, or 1 1000 chip, it would be considered a call. If you threw in 1 500 chip and 5 100 chips it's a raise and you have to put in another 200.

I was wondering why this thread was up at the top so much.

DeVore

I agree with the OP that the dealer should implement the house rules on showdowns.. ie: "You've been called sir, please show your hand" or "You are left of the dealer button sir, you are first to show please."

This is something that annoys the absolutely sh*t out of me when people simply sit there and demand that they get the information on your hand and then decide if they will reveal the information about their own. Its angle shooting and I start asking to see hands at that point.

Unfortunately I'm in the land of the Slow-Rollers here and have seen several horrific slow rolls already and been slow rolled repeatedly myself here. One guy took about 10 seconds to reveal top house on Dominic's table the other night in a cash game. The number of times a player has sat there an insisted on me showing first and then mucking or slow rolling has been unbelieveable here.

The first casino in Dublin to implement the suggestion above will get my business.

DeV.