Hurray for Hamas?

Pazaz 21

What affect will Hamas's role in the release of Alan Johnston have on the relationship between Hamas, Fatah and the Quartet?

According to Alan himself it was the pressure put by Hamas on his kidnappers which secured his release. Is this a sign that Hamas are ready to play ball or just a publicity stunt to secure approval for their bloody coup in the Gaza Strip?

IMHO i don't know, it will be interesting to see if this event jump starts talks between all sides. Perhaps if Israel and Hamas are prepared to deal over the release of Eilad Shilat (Sp?) the Isreali soldier kidnapped last year successfully it could open the door for further negotiations about a two state solution, but i'm not going to hold my breath!

gbh

It was a gesture of goodwill, but if its only one gesture among many acts of violence and reluctance to recognise Israel then it wont benefit them that much.

FYI

While Alan Johnston deservedly got media attention during his captivity, the same cannot be said for Palestinian journalists at the hands of Israeli forces. Take this recent incident below for example. How much coverage has this received on the BBC/RTE/CNN etc? From Reuters:

"This video contains graphic images. Viewer discretion advised.

http://www.reuters.com/news/video/videoStory?videoId=59193

Jul. 5 - A Palestinian camerman is hit by a volley of bullets while filming clashes between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian militants in Gaza.

The cameraman, Imad Ghanem was filming for Hamas's al-Aqsa television channel when he was fired upon.

In video filmed by a colleague he can be seen lying on the ground with his camera by his side.

Eyewitnesses said moments before he'd been with a group which included militant gunmen, though he appeared to be unarmed. Ghanem was later treated in hospital where both of his legs were amputated.

An Israeli army spokeswoman said journalists were at risk if they entered a combat zone but soldiers did not deliberately target them.

© Reuters 2007. All rights reserved."

Moriarty

All that kept coming into my head when I watched that video was "How fucking moronic must you be to use a shoulder-mounted camera 3 or 4 meters away in plain sight from people that are shooting at soldiers?"

I mean seriously. Seriously shit thing to happen, but he has himself to blame more than anyone else from what I saw there.

Fratton Fred

Moriarty wrote:

All that kept coming into my head when I watched that video was "How fucking moronic must you be to use a shoulder-mounted camera 3 or 4 meters away in plain sight from people that are shooting at soldiers?"

I mean seriously. Seriously shit thing to happen, but he has himself to blame more than anyone else from what I saw there.

That was my first thought as well.

The release of prisoners by Israel is interesting, it looks like they are trying to manipulate the Palestinian people into supporting Fatah, whilst Hamas are showing what good eggs they are by getting Alan Johnston released.

Hopefully now the coup is over, both sides will be trying to "Win the Peace" by trying to bring some form of order to the Gaza Strip and west bank. Could we end up with two palestinian states, one ruled by Fatah, one by Hamas?

FYI

Moriarty wrote:

All that kept coming into my head when I watched that video was "How fucking moronic must you be to use a shoulder-mounted camera 3 or 4 meters away in plain sight from people that are shooting at soldiers?"

I mean seriously. Seriously shit thing to happen, but he has himself to blame more than anyone else from what I saw there.

No offense Moriarty but you seem to have actually gone to the trouble of concocting an excuse. I've watched it a few times now and I can't see one person holding a gun within the group that ran away.

The gunmen were positioned behind the second cameraman at least 40 feet from the incident. With a sighted scope this would have been plain as day.

Israel have also stated that all memebers of Hamas are now considered potential targets, even so it seems journalists for Hamas TV.

Moriarty

FYI wrote:

No offense Moriarty but you seem to have actually gone to the trouble of concocting an excuse. I've watched it a few times now and I can't see one person holding a gun within the group that ran away.

The gunmen were positioned behind the second cameraman at least 40 feet from the incident. With a sighted scope this would have been plain as day.

The gun(s?) were dropped before the guys ran away. When the first guy runs out to rescue the camera man you can see him pick up a rifle lying beside the injured camera man and sling it over his shoulder when he's calling for more people to come help. I can't be sure, but I think I see the outline of a rifle on the other man that's down a little further on from the camera man too. Either way, he was in open ground right beside people with rifles engaged in a gun battle.

FYI wrote:

Israel have also stated that all memebers of Hamas are now considered potential targets, even so it seems journalists for Hamas TV.

Link?

FYI

Moriarty wrote:

The gun(s?) were dropped before the guys ran away. When the first guy runs out to rescue the camera man you can see him pick up a rifle lying beside the injured camera man and sling it over his shoulder when he's calling for more people to come help. I can't be sure, but I think I see the outline of a rifle on the other man that's down a little further on from the camera man too. Either way, he was in open ground right beside people with rifles engaged in a gun battle.

Link?

Thanks Moriarty, you had me doubting myself for a second. But again it seems you are attempting to defend what appears indefensible. Given the quality of the footage it is almost impossible to see whether those men in the background had weapons or not. Furthermore, the 'rifle' the man rescuing the downed cameraman slung over his shoulder was the CAMERA. Thankfully you are not an IDF soldier either.

Contrary to what you say, whether he was caught in crossfire or not (we can't tell from this footage) he should not have been repeatedly shot while injured on the ground, and the rescuers should not have been shot at either, I would presume.

I just have to reiterate how little coverage this actual attempted killing got as compared the kidnapping of Alan Johnston. This was the BBC's contribution, and it includes the link you were asking for:

"Palestinian medics said the eleventh person to die was a civilian, and that children were among the wounded.

A cameraman working for Hamas TV had both legs amputated after reportedly being shot by Israeli troops.

Israel said it did not deliberately target journalists, but added that it did not regard anyone working for Hamas as a journalist."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6272188.stm

Moriarty

FYI wrote:

Thanks Moriarty, you had me doubting myself for a second. But again it seems you are attempting to defend what appears indefensible.

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying the camera man was terminally stupid for putting himself in that position. I have no idea what the story was prior to the beginning of that video so I wouldn't pass judgement one way or another on the situation.

FYI wrote:

Given the quality of the footage it is almost impossible to see whether those men in the background had weapons or not. Furthermore, the 'rifle' the man rescuing the downed cameraman slung over his shoulder was the CAMERA. Thankfully you are not an IDF soldier either.

You're right about the camera, my mistake. It's very tough to make out details on the video.

FYI wrote:

Contrary to what you say, whether he was caught in crossfire or not (we can't tell from this footage) he should not have been repeatedly shot while injured on the ground, and the rescuers should not have been shot at either, I would presume.

I can't tell if he was repeatedly shot while injured or not. There were certainly shots landing close to him after he was injured I agree, but I couldn't say if any hit him after or not. Without knowing more about the situation I wouldn't know whether it was right or not to shoot at the people that went back out to carry the camera man off either.

FYI wrote:

I just have to reiterate how little coverage this actual attempted killing got as compared the kidnapping of Alan Johnston. This was the BBC's contribution, and it includes the link you were asking for:

"Palestinian medics said the eleventh person to die was a civilian, and that children were among the wounded.

A cameraman working for Hamas TV had both legs amputated after reportedly being shot by Israeli troops.

Israel said it did not deliberately target journalists, but added that it did not regard anyone working for Hamas as a journalist."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6272188.stm

I don't see anything particularly malicious or deceiving in it not being headline news for a couple of days. It's a callous thing to say, but both palestinian and israeli people die practically every day in the middle east. Fatigue set in many years ago in the west about the continuing rise in the body count on both sides. It would be wrong to say that we don't care, but the constant killing has melted into the general perception many western people now have of the middle east. We already know people kill each other there practically every day. We've known for years. It no longer gives us any greater understanding of the situation.

I think saying "Israel have also stated that all members of Hamas are now considered potential targets" and "Israel said it did not deliberately target journalists, but added that it did not regard anyone working for Hamas as a journalist" is a bit of a stretch on your part to forward a particular agenda.


Also, apologies to Pazaz 21 for veering this thread so far off topic.

FYI

Moriarty wrote:

I think saying "Israel have also stated that all members of Hamas are now considered potential targets" and "Israel said it did not deliberately target journalists, but added that it did not regard anyone working for Hamas as a journalist" is a bit of a stretch on your part to forward a particular agenda.

Sorry Moriarty, I assumed you knew Israel’s position on Hamas, it is as I have written:

"We will continue the targeted killings at this pace," Mr Mofaz said.

"If Hamas, a terror organisation that doesn't recognise agreements with us and isn't willing to renounce violence, presents us with the challenge of having to confront a terror organisation, then no-one there will be immune.

"Not just Ismail Haniya. No-one will be immune."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4781246.stm