Diesel With A Bit Of Power

zoemax

Looking to buy a medium to large used diesel car. I do about 28k miles a year and want a car with reasonable power that I can buy with about 50k ish miles on the clock and run for 3-4 years before I have to scrap it. I quite like the volvo s60 d5. I have driven several and they are comfortbale and fast. Don't like 5 series but do like the x type 2.0d, but am concerned about its reliability. Any suggestions? Budget is €20-25k.

peasant

THERE you go.
Seenashow you're going to drive it into the ground anyway, you may as well stay under budget.
That engine is a stormer !

Mr Magnolia

This is the type of car I'd advise. Maybe the 330d if the high tax doesn't bother you

zoemax

Will I need to put a bicycle in the boot for when it breaks down.........

(The Alpha not the BMW)

Cionád

Seat Toledo 1.9 TDi

110 hp ones are common, get a chip on ebay to boost that to 145hp

or 2005 Seat Leon 150 bhp Tdi

unkel

Peasant was nearly there. How about this one? Let me guess, about 450NM of torque?

Mr Magnolia

zoemax wrote:

Will I need to put a bicycle in the boot for when it breaks down.........

(The Alpha not the BMW)

Ouch. For the love of God, lets not go down the Alfa's reliable/unreliable road again

peasant

Fiat's (Alfa's) diesel engines are one of the best in the business and the late 156's were quite good on reliability.

But due to its bad reputation (undeserved) you could pick yourself a real bargain for 10 k under your budget there.

As you said ...you intend to drive it to the end. Why burn 25 k when you could get away with 15 ?

Eoin

zoemax wrote:

Will I need to put a bicycle in the boot for when it breaks down.........

(The Alpha not the BMW)

Only if you've room with your big book of cliches as well.

galwaytt

zoemax wrote:

Will I need to put a bicycle in the boot for when it breaks down.........

(The Alpha not the BMW)

juxtapositioned and mis-spelt in the same sentence........how unjust. Meanwhile the German myth continues.......

zoemax

I take the point about Alpha cliches. Fact is I never considered an Alpha diesel but the one highlighted by Peasant looks very nice. Still, would have reliability worries as I do a lot of driving and the only two people I know with Alphas have had a bad time (a 159 and a Spider) and this site seems to have mixed reviews for Alphas. That said I did pay €33k for a new Passat for the wifey so I am probably not the person to make an issue out of an Alpha's reliability.......

prospect

Okay, first of all it is ALFA, with an 'F'

What reliability issues does your friend have with a 159?

zoemax

Ok..forgive my spelling and grammar ...this is what comes of spending too long reading old posts in the personal issues section of boards for hours on end..it melts your brain (can you be straight and still enjoy get a b@@w@@b from another bloke?)

My mate with the 159 has had it back at the garage for 'electrical problems' a couple of times. Don't know the specifics.

As I said earlier, I never considered an Alfa diesel. I did a quick search on uk websites and found a really good selection of low miles relatively cheap prices. The vrt is also ok. Will seriously consider one, but will do some research first.

Henry Ford III

S60 D5 is nice ok.

flanzer

Honda Accord CTDi?...I loving them lately. May be going to the UK in the next couple of weeks to pick myself up one. Sick and tired of the small boot in the Golf and the lack of power from the 1.4

siralfalot

unkel wrote:

Peasant was nearly there. How about this one? Let me guess, about 450NM of torque?

no, not quite that much!! be realistic eh?!

ciarsd

siralfalot, what are you playing at??!!

zoemax, come back to us when you can at least pretend to know what your talking about, without the need to jump on a bandwagon

bazz26

How about some of these:

Honda Accord 2.2 - http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=729075

Volvo S60 2.4 D5 - http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=703519

unkel

siralfalot wrote:

no, not quite that much!! be realistic eh?!

Pessimist! Actually it's even more than I thought

Just looked it up and Celtic Tuning claim to chip an '03 20V JTD (175BHP / 385NM) to an astonishing 225BHP / 495NM :eek:

But maybe the one in the ad is the old 10V model?

siralfalot

ciarsd wrote:

siralfalot, what are you playing at??!!

playing? me? eh!!?

yep the ad is for a 10 valve model, its near to 430nm *estimated* at the moment, although that is unproven as yet

Mr Magnolia

unkel wrote:

Pessimist! Actually it's even more than I thought

Just looked it up and Celtic Tuning claim to chip an '03 20V JTD (175BHP / 385NM) to an astonishing 225BHP / 495NM :eek:

But maybe the one in the ad is the old 10V model?

Fook, that's the same figures as the new 330cd

commited

2002 BMW 525d. Nuff said.

vengeance52

i got the accord 2.2cdti and its sweet. great power and lovely and smooth. that alfa 159 is pretty tho

Hotwheels

Fiat's (Alfa's) diesel engines are one of the best in the business and the late 156's were quite good on reliability.

Second that....

Have a 159 JTDm now with 35,000 Miles an excellent machine, a hoot to drive

zoemax

Ciarsd, as you rightly point out I don't have much knowledge of cars, apart from what I read in the Times motoring supplement and watch on repeats of TopGear, both of which by the way regularly question Alfa reliability. If I did I wouldn't have had to ask my original question. If you could point me in the direction of the Motors Pre-Posting Qualifiying Test I will be glad to sit it before I post again. Bandwagon - yes it was my intention to start a Alfa bad -BMW good discussion when I asked about diesels!

Peasant, you have got me thinking. A 140bhp diesel that looks that good for Ford Focus money:eek: I think I will be sorting out a test drive of an Alfa very soon if I can get over the reliability thing in my head. Mentioned in work that I was being turned on by an Alfa diesel (literally) and got the '..good engines but bits fall off..' response. That said though my brother in law had a brand new 645 which spent more time back in the dealers than in his garage, so even BMW have their problems. Will come back when I have decided which car to buy.

peasant

zoemax wrote:

Peasant, you have got me thinking. A 140bhp diesel that looks that good for Ford Focus money:eek: I think I will be sorting out a test drive of an Alfa very soon if I can get over the reliability thing in my head. Mentioned in work that I was being turned on by an Alfa diesel (literally) and got the '..good engines but bits fall off..' response. That said though my brother in law had a brand new 645 which spent more time back in the dealers than in his garage, so even BMW have their problems. Will come back when I have decided which car to buy.

Even if it should break down once or twice more than the equivalent Beemer would have ...it would still have been ten grand cheaper ....you can get quite a few niggles fixed for 10k

Plus it's a 1.9 ...so cheaper in tax and insurance than all the 2.2 / 2.4 / 2.5 alternatives.

Eoin

zoemax wrote:

. Mentioned in work that I was being turned on by an Alfa diesel (literally) and got the '..good engines but bits fall off..' response. That said though my brother in law had a brand new 645 which spent more time back in the dealers than in his garage, so even BMW have their problems.

BMWs absolutely have their problems - I find this "German Reliability" thing an absolute myth. The quality of some recent Mercedes has been quite poor for example.

I can only go on my own experience though. 2 years with an Alfa 156 - only had to service her - bar the headlight bulbs needing replacement every couple of months, not ONE problem. I had a Mark IV Golf for a year, and that was a piece of crap. Slow as a wet week, and needed constant servicing. My current car, a BMW 320d, has needed a new MAF and air flow switch. This is before standard servicing. However, it has 115K miles on the clock, so I suppose you have to expect things like that.

Anyway, long story short - don't buy into what the marketers say and what armchair experts think - talk to people who have owned the car and look at the likes of honestjohn.co.uk and parkers.co.uk.

Top Gear is entertaining, but my opinion is that they will make a car's review fit into their predetermined opinions and catchy / smarmy soundbites.

ciarsd

zoemax wrote:

Ciarsd, as you rightly point out I don't have much knowledge of cars, apart from what I read in the Times motoring supplement and watch on repeats of TopGear, both of which by the way regularly question Alfa reliability. If I did I wouldn't have had to ask my original question. If you could point me in the direction of the Motors Pre-Posting Qualifiying Test I will be glad to sit it before I post again. Bandwagon - yes it was my intention to start a Alfa bad -BMW good discussion when I asked about diesels!

For a start scrap the Irish Times supplement on wednesdays for your source of motoring knowledge - this wednesday was no different with the Irish Times and Alfa reliability... this time bringing into question, as it happens, their diesel engine! It was a laughable read - confusing past issues of an old model with a modern, reliable, good performing and somewhat robust diesel engine - which I happen to have under the bonnet of my own daily driver (a GT).
Same goes for the authors argument that these diesels are similarly suffering with past depreciation levels which is certainly untrue, particularly with the Diesel 159's/GT's.

Re bandwagon.. and to quote you

zoemax wrote:

Will I need to put a bicycle in the boot for when it breaks down.........

(The Alpha not the BMW)

all I was simply saying was, do the homework and see/experience for yourself otherwise you will probably miss out on a saving and a good deal! Best of luck with your search anyway.

OKenora

Are any of the people that would not want/own an Alfa as they are unreliable driving a newish Vauxhall diesel or a Saab diesel (bullet proof them Saab diesels)
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oh actually wait.........don't the Saabs (bullet proof them Saab diesels) and the Vauxhalls licence their diesel engines from Fiat and fit that same engine to their boring but reliable diesel cars ?

If you answered yes to driving one and still think Alfas are unreliable then isn't it time you woke up and realised what you have been missing.

As to the car...1.9 156 or a 2.4 if you don't mind the tax. 4 years of Alfa ownership, first 3 with petrols...nuff said....last while in a diesel. 10k so far (70k on car), nothing gone wrong bar 1 broken wire on the battery connector which could happen any car (and does). Servicing costs, about 75% of what we pay for BMW services and not a lot more than we pay for Peugeot service. Style - buckets of it, unbeatable for any sane amount of money. We have a 330d and an Alfa 156, 330d is newish but never turns heads, the Alfa regularly turns heads and collects comments, all of the right kind, and thats at 4 years old. Silly as this may sound, but even though I have owned the 156 a while i still look back at it in car parks, still love and admire the lines and still would not change it for any other box on wheels currently out there.

Moanin

A4 1.9tdi 130bhp

OKenora

Out of curiosity, waht do we call a "diesel with a bit of power" ? reason I ask is we have 3 diesels in the house, 2 regularly driven by my partner, the 3rd is MINE (hands off). She describes one as "quite nippy and fun" and the other as "a bit faster" and the third as "very fast, thats too fast". So where do we place the cutoff ?

The 3 cars are 90bhp Pug 206, 230bhp BMW330d and an 200bhp Alfa - in that order.

Personally I place it at about 150bhp minimum as anything below that is not a "bit of power" for a diesel these days (not to me anwyay). 120 and 130 bhp diesels are pretty commonplace. Maybe the original poster would like to answer too as my answer to his original question will be totally different cars based on what he calls "a bit of power".

l33t-krew

Hotwheels wrote:

Second that....

Have a 159 JTDm now with 35,000 Miles an excellent machine, a hoot to drive

havent read anything, but shouldnt any car be fine at 35k miles

You should only start to think about a car after 120-130k

OKenora

but shouldnt any car be fine at 35k miles

Buy a brand new car, you will spend more time in the dealers than you would have with your 120k car on most new cars. Admittedly this affects new models more but with most manafacturers bringing out new models every few years it's quite common.

By 35k you expect most these to have been fixed. Don't beleive me - say the word "wishbones" to a 20-30k miles Audi owner and watch their body turn to jelly then swell with rage.....

m_stan

unkel wrote:

Pessimist! Actually it's even more than I thought

Just looked it up and Celtic Tuning claim to chip an '03 20V JTD (175BHP / 385NM) to an astonishing 225BHP / 495NM :eek:

But maybe the one in the ad is the old 10V model?

Filled in an enquiry form to see if they'd turn my 130bhp A4 1.9 tdi sport into a 185bhp version, as is suggested on their site. Now that would add to the fun alright !

OKenora

see if they'd turn my 130bhp A4 1.9 tdi sport into a 185bhp version

Yes they will, or very close, about 50bhp and 65lb/ft torque extra.

The difference is not subtle, it really is a different car to drive after this is done. Beware of clutches afterwards though, continuous enthusiastic driving with the extra power will wear your clutch.

Fook, that's the same figures as the new 330cd

I have a standard 330d SE and the Alfa is tuned to about 200bhp and about 380nm but the Alfa feels as fast as the BMW, due mainly I would say to the BMW being 300kg heavier.

unkel

peasant wrote:

Even if it should break down once or twice more than the equivalent Beemer would have ...it would still have been ten grand cheaper ....you can get quite a few niggles fixed for 10k

That's exactly it! Small, newish BMW diesels keep their value too well, so they're overpriced as a second hand buy

Some cars are better bought new instead of second hand in this country. Examples: New model Honda Civic, most small Toyotas, any BMW diesel, Mercedes C-class diesel

zoemax

Ciarsd, fair points. If you read enough of these threads almost every car gets a hard time for some reason or another. My car knowledge stretches to the models I have owned over the years (corolla, polo, s40(s), focus, x trail, passat - in that order) and no further.

OKenora, I have driven my brothers Saab 95 diesel and its a great drive. I'm shocked that it has essentially the same engine as an Alfa (see my lack of knowledge is coming through again:) )

Eoin, is it easy to change the headlight bulbs yourself? I drive with my lights on all the time and when I had a focus changing the bulbs every 10k miles was a real pain in the ass (big hands - small spaces).

I think I'm just about sold on an Alfa diesel, pending a test drive. As I drive long distances comfort is also important so hopefully that wont be an issue. Now which to try out, the 1.9 or the 2.4..........

unkel

zoemax wrote:

I have driven my brothers Saab 95 diesel and its a great drive. I'm shocked that it has essentially the same engine as an Alfa

I'll shock you a bit more. Saab is owned by General Motors (owner of Opel). The current Saab 9-5 is based on the 1989 Opel Vectra. The diesel engine is developed by FIAT

Eoin

zoemax wrote:

Eoin, is it easy to change the headlight bulbs yourself? I drive with my lights on all the time and when I had a focus changing the bulbs every 10k miles was a real pain in the ass (big hands - small spaces).

Not too sure, what used to be Victor motors was on my way home, so I was able to drop in - they had it done in a couple of minutes, but I have heard that they can be awkward to get at. I'd say I went through maybe 3 dipped beam bulbs in a year.

What's handy about the Alfa 156, and perhaps other models, is that you don't have to turn the headlights off when you turn off the engine. Rather than sounding an alarm, the lights just turn off - so you can just leave them on full time.

siralfalot

the headlight and dip beam bulbs on the 156 are easy to change, the side light bulbs are a bugger to do, its a tight fit but managable without any great fuss, I find the lights switching off automatically brilliant, I just leave them on all the time. performance wise the newer 1.9 JTDm from 2004 onwards is very similar to the 2.4JTD 10v, but the 2.4 has a much wider torque band, making it more drivable