I played a Hold'em hand! To call or not to call.

Benglian

I play Omaha...my hold'em is sketchy.
I am in an (English) casino mixed game, 4/5/6 PLO/Irish/PLH dealers choice.
It is fabulous, no one has a clue apart from one other fairly solid guy(the Villain).
It is 5/5 hold'em. Stacks vary from 100-900, I have 900, Villian has about 700.

8 of us pay 10(the straddle) to see a flop. I have J9h.

Flop is KJ4, one heart. It is checked to me in LP, so I bet 75.
The villan in EP calls.
The turn is Ah. He checks, I check.
The river is Qh.
He bets 75, I raise to 150.
He thinks for a while, and pushes in for 430 more...
What should I do?

Recap.

Board is KsJc4h/Ah/Qh
I have second nuts J9h.
Villan is not Rocky McRock(infamous king of the Rock people) himself, but is a close relative. Probably a cousin, or something...
The game is fabulous, he knows this, and wouldn't tangle with the only other decent player at the table, for his stack, if he didn't think that he was ahead...
EVERY time he raises on the river he has the nuts, but it IS mostly an Omaha game...
Can I fold back-door second nuts here?
Can I ever fold it?

Like I said, I play Omaha, and this is a fold...

ligger

Sorry misread board. So have amended this. He could have K10 of hearts I suppose, I still go broke though.

kryogen

i call,he may have been trappin with top pair and backed into the nut flush with K of hearts,but its highly unlikely....altho i assume u called and lost or else y post it?? i call everytime, i pretty much beat him into the pot in holdem, yes its a fold in omaha but not holdem...he is unlikely to b putting u on a flush as u bet the flop, he cant consider that u back into runnin hearts! he will make this push with a set a str8 or 2 pair far too often to fold this spot in holdem.

call happily, if ur beat, call happily next time u in the same spot in holdem!!

Mr.Plough

i'd expect him to raise the flop with kxh.

i think he has a worse flush/straight enough for you to call here.

Chucky the tree

Benglian wrote:

I play Omaha...my hold'em is sketchy.
I am in an (English) casino mixed game, 4/5/6 PLO/Irish/PLH dealers choice.
It is fabulous, no one has a clue apart from one other fairly solid guy(the Villain).
It is 5/5 hold'em. Stacks vary from 100-900, I have 900, Villian has about 700.

8 of us pay 10(the straddle) to see a flop. I have J9h.

Flop is KJ4, one heart. It is checked to me in LP, so I bet 75.
The villan in EP calls.
The turn is Ah. He checks, I check.
The river is Th.
He bets 75, I raise to 150.
He thinks for a while, and pushes in for 430 more...
What should I do?

Recap.

Board is KsJc4h/Ah/Qh
I have second nuts J9h.
Villan is not Rocky McRock(infamous king of the Rock people) himself, but is a close relative. Probably a cousin, or something...
The game is fabulous, he knows this, and wouldn't tangle with the only other decent player at the table, for his stack, if he didn't think that he was ahead...
EVERY time he raises on the river he has the nuts, but it IS mostly an Omaha game...
Can I fold back-door second nuts here?
Can I ever fold it?

Like I said, I play Omaha, and this is a fold...

fixaments.


I go broke here.

DeadParrot

Yeah I go broke here too

ianmc38

im never folding here.

Tar.Aldarion

Gotta call there me thinks

cardshark202

bad beat thread surely

Jesus Wept

cardshark202 wrote:

bad beat thread surely

WHS

Benglian

Chucky the tree wrote:

fixaments.


I go broke here.

Thank you for pointing that out...fixed

Benglian

Actually I was the villain...and was indeed holding the nuts flush...with K6h.

I called his flop bet, because I thought my top pair was good, and had it confirmed by his turn check... The RR flush was just a gift from the gods...

He dwelled up for ages...and then called the 430.
He said something like 'Well there's only one card can beat me'

But EVERY time I raise I have the nuts, or a very good draw to the nuts, without exception. I would not raise this guy, for my whole stack, unless I thought I was winning...he has to know that...

What else could I have had? A worse flush? A Ten high flush? What Ten high flush calls £75 on the flop?

It is a fold, but is there anyone out there good enough to fold this?

Tar.Aldarion

The-Rigger wrote:

WHS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobbly_hedgehog_syndrome
?

ianmc38

Benglian wrote:

Actually I was the villain...and was indeed holding the nuts flush...with K6h.

I called his flop bet, because I thought my top pair was good, and had it confirmed by his turn check... The RR flush was just a gift from the gods...

He dwelled up for ages...and then called the 430.
He said something like 'Well there's only one card can beat me'

But EVERY time I raise I have the nuts, or a very good draw to the nuts, without exception. I would not raise this guy, for my whole stack, unless I thought I was winning...he has to know that...

What else could I have had? A worse flush? A Ten high flush? What Ten high flush calls £75 on the flop?

It is a fold, but is there anyone out there good enough to fold this?

no. there are a million hands he beats that are all part of your range thus folding would be a big mistake.

Benglian

Benglian wrote:

But EVERY time I raise I have the nuts, or a very good draw to the nuts, without exception. I would not raise this guy, for my whole stack, unless I thought I was winning...he has to know that...

What else could I have had? A worse flush? A Ten high flush? What Ten high flush calls £75 on the flop?

ianmc38 wrote:

no. there are a million hands he beats that are all part of your range thus folding would be a big mistake.

What hands exactly?

Jesus Wept

You're beating everything but KX hearts

ianmc38

Benglian wrote:

What hands exactly?

straights sets flushes two pair etc.

Jesus Wept

I can only see him check-raising with a straight, flush, or bluff, but there are plenty of flushes you beat.

CaptainNemo

Based on the description of the villain in this hand I'd say there is 100% no way he is raising into you here on the river without the nuts after your 150 bet. Any weaker hand (set, 10-high or lower flush) has to just call. So I think this is a fold, but in the heat of the moment it would be very difficult. I don't know many people who would fold this and I don't know if I would myself. But if I was up against someone I knew to be a very solid player, who never raises the river without the nuts, then it might be possible.

One good thing about playing Omaha is it has made me better at folding strong hands in Texas.

ianmc38

Folding here is retarded unelss this guy never value raises anything but the nutleys. The flush is also backdoor which makes it more concealed, especially with the two checks on the turn.

Brayruit

Benglian wrote:

Actually I was the villain...and was indeed holding the nuts flush...with K6h.

I called his flop bet, because I thought my top pair was good, and had it confirmed by his turn check... The RR flush was just a gift from the gods...

He dwelled up for ages...and then called the 430.
He said something like 'Well there's only one card can beat me'

But EVERY time I raise I have the nuts, or a very good draw to the nuts, without exception. I would not raise this guy, for my whole stack, unless I thought I was winning...he has to know that...

What else could I have had? A worse flush? A Ten high flush? What Ten high flush calls £75 on the flop?

It is a fold, but is there anyone out there good enough to fold this?

It is not a fold.

You say that EVERY time you raise you have the nuts. With respect, that means that you play the river badly in hold'em. Also, if that is true and your opponent knows your play, why push, why not make a smaller value bet that you believe he will call?

Chucky the tree

Benglian wrote:

Actually I was the villain...and was indeed holding the nuts flush...with K6h.

I called his flop bet, because I thought my top pair was good, and had it confirmed by his turn check... The RR flush was just a gift from the gods...

He dwelled up for ages...and then called the 430.
He said something like 'Well there's only one card can beat me'

But EVERY time I raise I have the nuts, or a very good draw to the nuts, without exception. I would not raise this guy, for my whole stack, unless I thought I was winning...he has to know that...

What else could I have had? A worse flush? A Ten high flush? What Ten high flush calls £75 on the flop?

It is a fold, but is there anyone out there good enough to fold this?

the day i become "good enough" too fold this is the day i quit playing poker.



Also, dont limp in EP and stop being such a nit.