Carzone secrets!

pburns

Recently discovered something interesting whilst messing around with Carzone. It seems the database/content management system at the backend of the site is ingeniously simple i.e. you add a new car, it's ID is the next number in a sequential list passed on in the URL. No fancy coding to denote particular dealers, geographical areas etc.

This makes it kinda fun. For example, here (it seems) is the very first car ever posted on Carzone back in 2001:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1

At the time of posting this is the latest car added to the site:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=735689

Wouldn't like to have bought this car (evil, possessed:D )
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=666

I wonder dis this guy receive a prize for being the 1000th customer:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=1000

Anyway you can deduce all kinds of interesting stuff from this - like accurate guesswork as to how long a car has been advertised and how big a discount you might therefore negeotiate!

colm_mcm

good work!

jhegarty

The CIA will be after you with that sort of knowledge....

fasty

Solid bone primary key, opens the most intricate lock!

PauloMN

I think it was on here that we discussed the ID thing before and how it would be useful to approximate how long a car was for sale - knowing this could put a potential purchaser in a better bargaining position.

JHMEG

Other carzone secrets:
1. Don't provide any contact info on the website, despite being legally required to do so since April.
2. Don't answer any "emails" (that naff contact form).
3. Don't remove fraudulent entries from the site, even when the real owner request carzone to do so (via the naff contact form, as not phone number or address to be found).

jhegarty

JHMEG wrote:

1. Don't provide any contact info on the website, despite being legally required to do so since April.

Didn't hear about that at all :eek: ... do you have a link to the new regulations ?

colm_mcm

also Carzone seems to be full of:

"Toyota Corolla Opel Astra 1.4" or
"BMW 3 Series Mitsubishi Lancer GSR".
cars that have been sold and then new cars put onto the same ad.

smash

JHMEG wrote:

Other carzone secrets:
1. Don't provide any contact info on the website, despite being legally required to do so since April.
2. Don't answer any "emails" (that naff contact form).
3. Don't remove fraudulent entries from the site, even when the real owner request carzone to do so (via the naff contact form, as not phone number or address to be found).

Contact Info: http://www.carzone.ie/index.cfm?fuseaction=TermsConditions
and also more contact info when you log into the site.

prospect

jhegarty wrote:

Didn't hear about that at all :eek: ... do you have a link to the new regulations ?

It is true, all company websites and e-mails are legally required to have the details of their registered office, reg number and list of directors, similar to company letterhead paper.

ODCE Information Notice I/2007/2:
http://tinyurl.com/345mmx

P

smash

prospect wrote:

It is true, all company websites and e-mails are legally required to have the details of their registered office, reg number and list of directors, similar to company letterhead paper.

ODCE Information Notice I/2007/2:
http://tinyurl.com/345mmx

P

But read the T&C... Carzone is only a business name of the controlling company so they don't need it.

Mitch Connor

anyone else wish carzone would give you more options for filtering the searches - such as removing cars with no pictures, specifying types of car you don't want to be shown (car van for example)

Or having a way for filtering for cars that match a more specific definition - such as having MFSW, or climate control.

smash

Tauren wrote:

anyone else wish carzone would give you more options for filtering the searches - such as removing cars with no pictures, specifying types of car you don't want to be shown (car van for example)

Or having a way for filtering for cars that match a more specific definition - such as having MFSW, or climate control.

haha, you can use the advanced search to select cars with photos

daedalus2097

colm_mcm wrote:

also Carzone seems to be full of:

"Toyota Corolla Opel Astra 1.4" or
"BMW 3 Series Mitsubishi Lancer GSR".
cars that have been sold and then new cars put onto the same ad.

You see the same on eBay, I reckon it might be to catch people who are searching for a particular model and forcing their way into the search. E.g., your example there would show up in a search for a Corolla or an Astra, increasing the amount of interest in the car. Could be relisting under the same ad though, especially by dealers...

smash

daedalus2097 wrote:

You see the same on eBay, I reckon it might be to catch people who are searching for a particular model and forcing their way into the search. E.g., your example there would show up in a search for a Corolla or an Astra, increasing the amount of interest in the car. Could be relisting under the same ad though, especially by dealers...

Actually I noticed it doesn't work. Carzone searches on make and model, not key words in the variant field so people doing it wont get a response because the car doesn't show up with other similar models.

Mitch Connor

steve06 wrote:

haha, you can use the advanced search to select cars with photos

how - the only option coming close is to select with thumbnails - but that will throw up cars without pics too.

Where is the option?

Also, I still reckon it should do the rest of my suggestions.

loyatemu

should have the option to search for more than one model as well so you can compare prices etc. and also a keyword search.

peasant

Yes, a more defined search would be nice.
It throws up a lot of crap when you try to find something specific.

A bit more checking and editing of the entries wouldn't go amiss either.

rebel.ranter

I also do not like the way that when you are searching for say a 5 series BMW that you cannot show all models together. There is an option saying 5 series but only a handful come up, yet when you pick a specific model e.g. 525 substantially more show up.
There must be some way this can be rectified???

Eoin

rebel.ranter wrote:

I also do not like the way that when you are searching for say a 5 series BMW that you cannot show all models together. There is an option saying 5 series but only a handful come up, yet when you pick a specific model e.g. 525 substantially more show up.
There must be some way this can be rectified???

I emailed them about that exact query myself, but got no reply.

I also suggested that you should be able to select multiple counties and a keyword search.

For instance, I'm keeping an eye out for a BMW 52*, but I don't mind if it's in a neighbouring county. But I do want leather and M-Tec kit. That means I either have to have a massive search for all BMWs over 2 litre in size anywhere in the country and then manually search for leather and M-Tec, or I have to have a different search for each variant of the 5 series.

I wouldn't mind, but it's really basic stuff to do.

JHMEG

steve06 wrote:

Contact Info: http://www.carzone.ie/index.cfm?fuseaction=TermsConditions

Am I missing something? I see no phone number on that page. <edit, I see the address of webzone now>

@jhegarty: yes, you can now be fined and prosecuted for not having contact info. It's been a recommendation for over 2 years, and became law in April this year.

smash

there is an address, and it's only limited companies that need to display company info...

p.s. Do you see contact details on ebay? Imagine the amount of rubbish calls...

pburns

eoin_s wrote:

For instance, I'm keeping an eye out for a BMW 52*, but I don't mind if it's in a neighbouring county. But I do want leather and M-Tec kit. That means I either have to have a massive search for all BMWs over 2 litre in size anywhere in the country and then manually search for leather and M-Tec, or I have to have a different search for each variant of the 5 series.

I wouldn't mind, but it's really basic stuff to do.

It may be 'really basic stuff' from a web development point of view. However the problem is that a more well defined search will be dependant on users (i.e. garages, car vendors) entering info CORRECTLY. For example I've seen MPVs described as SUVs and vice-versa. Ditto hatchbacks/saloons. Similar types of mistake are widespread across the site.

As Carzone don't have control over data input, more precise search criteria might just increase the inaccuracy of results...

Eoin

pburns wrote:

It may be 'really basic stuff' from a web development point of view. However the problem is that a more well defined search will be dependant on users (i.e. garages, car vendors) entering info CORRECTLY. For example I've seen MPVs described as SUVs and vice-versa. Ditto hatchbacks/saloons. Similar types of mistake are widespread across the site.

As Carzone don't have control over data input, more precise search criteria might just increase the inaccuracy of results...

That doesn't change my point at all. I am talking about the county and model dropdown boxes. Giving users the ability to select more than one option would allow different variants of a model, or select counties that are handy for them.

For instance, a BMW 523 can be put under a 5 series and a 523. And sometimes a 525, as it's a 2.5 litre engine. Allowing people to select all of those variants would in fact increase the amount of results, most of which would be relevant unless the details were completely off - which you can never cater for anyway.

There is also a free text field for vendors to put more details about the car, however that is not directly searchable, even from the advanced search page.

Even allowing for the many errors that dealers make, there is still a lot that Carzone could do to improve the search engine.

There is also no option to filter by min and max mileage. I appreciate that this is often way off - e.g. people enter 80, rather than 80000 - but at least give people the option to search under these criteria and then widen their search if needs be.

Mitch Connor

also, people inputting the details incorrectly would not get as many hits or inquiries - maybe this would teach them to give accurate details about the car they are trying to sell.

Eoin

Tauren wrote:

also, people inputting the details incorrectly would not get as many hits or inquiries - maybe this would teach them to give accurate details about the car they are trying to sell.

I don't know if dealers have a different interface to Joe Public for when they add cars, but I can't understand how they can get so many details wrong. Maybe it's laziness because they just don't understand the volume of people who must search online.

smash

well I have found a way to filter mileage by reading the URL's that are produced by simply adding &mileage_max=80000

but as for the searches, I like that it doesn't search keywords because you can search for a car, and get the cars you want unlike ebay where you can search for a car and get all sorts of crap because people type it in....

Eoin

steve06 wrote:

well I have found a way to filter mileage by reading the URL's that are produced by simply adding &mileage_max=80000

Cool, I'll remember that.

steve06 wrote:

but as for the searches, I like that it doesn't search keywords because you can search for a car, and get the cars you want unlike ebay where you can search for a car and get all sorts of crap because people type it in....

But if there's a field for entering free text, then there should be a corresponding field for searching that text. E.g. a keyword search for "leather", "M-tech kit", "Nokia car kit" - all that kind of stuff. If you don't want to search for certain keywords, then you don't have to. The user should have the choice though.

smash

eoin_s wrote:

Cool, I'll remember that.



But if there's a field for entering free text, then there should be a corresponding field for searching that text. E.g. a keyword search for "leather", "M-tech kit", "Nokia car kit" - all that kind of stuff. If you don't want to search for certain keywords, then you don't have to. The user should have the choice though.

ye, I think the dealer secects tick box's for the extras like the classifieds do so it could be included... wonder if you can add it to the url too

rebel.ranter

Surely it would not be too difficult to have a table (or tables) that has a list of all cars in the background, like the way it already works when you choose the "Make" it only gives you the option of the "Model"(s) related to that Make.
e.g.
When the advertiser goes to add in a BMW 523i for Sale:

- it automatically pulls the engine size from the table related to the 523i
- it automatically lists it as a 5 series because it says that's what it is in the table
- You only get the option of saloon/touring because that's all the table allows (so no more SUV/MPV 523is)
- No. of doors can then be auto-populated too.
- It could prompt for other fields based on related important information like spec:
i.e. forcing them to fill "Sport" "SE" or for other makes "LX" "GLX" "GTI" "Red TDI 130BHP", etc.

By doing all this to begin with it would reduce the amount of spurious info being entered. Ultimately it makes it easier for the buying public to see what they want.

smash

Can you imagine how much server load it would take and how much database input and maintenance it would take to keep a historical list of every engine size for every varient of every model of every make.... There's no way it would work.

And you couldn't list all 5 series together, because the model isn't 5 series... the model is 525, 523, 530 and there's massive price differences between them. then you've got the varients too...

smash

I just saw they're looking for staff... so why don't you apply and add the extra functionality yourselves....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055119550

Eoin

rebel.ranter wrote:

Surely it would not be too difficult to have a table (or tables) that has a list of all cars in the background, like the way it already works when you choose the "Make" it only gives you the option of the "Model"(s) related to that Make.
e.g.
When the advertiser goes to add in a BMW 523i for Sale:

- it automatically pulls the engine size from the table related to the 523i
- it automatically lists it as a 5 series because it says that's what it is in the table
- You only get the option of saloon/touring because that's all the table allows (so no more SUV/MPV 523is)
- No. of doors can then be auto-populated too.
- It could prompt for other fields based on related important information like spec:
i.e. forcing them to fill "Sport" "SE" or for other makes "LX" "GLX" "GTI" "Red TDI 130BHP", etc.

By doing all this to begin with it would reduce the amount of spurious info being entered. Ultimately it makes it easier for the buying public to see what they want.

I suggested something similar a while ago, but steve06 is right about the maintenance that would be required. It's still a very easy interface to use, if people spent just 30 seconds proof-reading their adverts, there's only so much hand holding carzone can do.

steve06 wrote:

I just saw they're looking for staff... so why don't you apply and add the extra functionality yourselves....

I'd say it'd be an interesting enough thing to work on - would be great if the new developers asked for some input from this forum.

smash

eoin_s wrote:

I'd say it'd be an interesting enough thing to work on - would be great if the new developers asked for some input from this forum.

can you imagine all the whingers up here giving their 2 cents.... haha

PeteK*

But when you use the '5 Series' search only.. it does not show all the 5 Series BMWs you're expecting to pop up. It only shows the ones people have added to that area when they put up their ad, I think - or however they add them.

It would be good to see small images of the cars on the left of the ad like other sites.

Also, there is no search for 'M Tech' or 'Xenons' etc., is there?

Eoin

Chatmaster wrote:

But when you use the '5 Series' search only.. it does not show all the 5 Series BMWs you're expecting to pop up. It only shows the ones people have added to that area when they put up their ad, I think - or however they add them.

It would be good to see small images of the cars on the left of the ad like other sites.

Also, there is no search for 'M Tech' or 'Xenons' etc., is there?

No, a "5 series" is treated as a distinct model, rather than a group of models. Like I said, allowing multiple selections would help this.

You can see thumbnails of the cars though - use the "Listing Format" option to switch this on and off.

Edit: and you're correct that there's no option to search the free text field, which would be very handy indeed.

Gerry

steve06 wrote:

Can you imagine how much server load it would take and how much database input and maintenance it would take to keep a historical list of every engine size for every varient of every model of every make.... There's no way it would work.

And you couldn't list all 5 series together, because the model isn't 5 series... the model is 525, 523, 530 and there's massive price differences between them. then you've got the varients too...

Look at revenues vrt calculator. It manages it. Database input - sure, a lot at the start. Hire a student in the summer, give them a few weeks. If the software is properly designed, it should be straightforward data entry. On an ongoing basis, you just have to add new cars. Theres no excuse for the "leading" car sales website not to have a well structured database and web front end that forces cars to be categorised properly.

OKenora

Can you imagine how much server load it would take and how much database input and maintenance it would take to keep a historical list of every engine size for every varient of every model of every make.... There's no way it would work.

There's hundreds of sites that do it and it's dead easy to do. No reason carzone can't do it too other than laziness, or excessive development charges by their coding team making small ongoing changes prohibitively expensive, so they only make changes in blocks and when needed.

PeteK*

eoin_s wrote:

No, a "5 series" is treated as a distinct model, rather than a group of models. Like I said, allowing multiple selections would help this.

Oh, I expected it to show all the 5 series they have no matter what model.

eoin_s wrote:

You can see thumbnails of the cars though - use the "Listing Format" option to switch this on and off.

Is it off by default?

Eoin

Chatmaster wrote:

Oh, I expected it to show all the 5 series they have no matter what model.

That's the logical thing to expect, but somewhere along the way, someone must have entered 5 series as a new model rather than selecting the variant, and that's causing the confusion.

Chatmaster wrote:

Is it off by default?

I think so, and there's no option to save the search preferences to a cookie either. What I do is just refine several searches as much as possible, and bookmark them.

smash

OKenora wrote:

There's hundreds of sites that do it and it's dead easy to do. No reason carzone can't do it too other than laziness, or excessive development charges by their coding team making small ongoing changes prohibitively expensive, so they only make changes in blocks and when needed.

like what sites... Autotrader doesn't do it... fish4 doesn't do it, ebay doesn't do it, carsireland doesn't do it, cbg doesn't do it.... cars.com doesn't do it and they're the biggest in the world!

Wazdakka

steve06 wrote:

like what sites... Autotrader doesn't do it... fish4 doesn't do it, ebay doesn't do it, carsireland doesn't do it, cbg doesn't do it.... cars.com doesn't do it and they're the biggest in the world!

Online car Insurance quotes?
They obiously enough make a point of knowing, listing, and making you choose exactly that info.

Eoin

Wazdakka wrote:

Online car Insurance quotes?
They obiously enough make a point of knowing, listing, and making you choose exactly that info.

I don't think it matters what type of interface you put in front of the dealers (who seem to be worse than private sellers for adding bad information). No matter how easy you make it, they will make errors.

It's pretty much impossible to try and stop any mistakes being entered, but what you can do is enhance the search engine side of it.

I don't know what the DB structure is like, but I can't imagine the following changes being that hard to implement:

• Allowing multiple choice selections on county, model and maybe body type
• Putting max and min mileage dropdowns - the functionality is already there in the background as was mentioned previously by steve06
• Having a keyword text field - if I recall, there is a free text box for extra details - but this isn't searchable

smash

I'd agree with adding more functionality... mileage, options like leather etc, maybe a tick box to exclude modified cars, only show cars with photos but the keyword... na, cos then it would end up like ebay... you'd search for an alfa and get "BMW 316 - not a ferrari, audi, mercedes, alfa romeo, honda" and I don't want that crap when I'm looking for a car.

prospect

eoin_s wrote:

I don't think it matters what type of interface you put in front of the dealers (who seem to be worse than private sellers for adding bad information). No matter how easy you make it, they will make errors.

It's pretty much impossible to try and stop any mistakes being entered, but what you can do is enhance the search engine side of it.

I don't know what the DB structure is like, but I can't imagine the following changes being that hard to implement:

• Allowing multiple choice selections on county, model and maybe body type
• Putting max and min mileage dropdowns - the functionality is already there in the background as was mentioned previously by steve06
• Having a keyword text field - if I recall, there is a free text box for extra details - but this isn't searchable

Although I mostly agree with this, I don't fully agree.

It would be easy enough for carzone to have a referential database of car types. So when a dealer selects a Citroen & Berlingo, the VAN field automagically fills in.

Look at this search result:
All, Diesel, Coupes, Price= €1 to €10000
http://tinyurl.com/2ctvwg

That type of thing is easy to prevent.

Similarly they can only allow the engine options any particular car is offered in.
Also, they should be FORCED to give a price, I hate this P.O.A. crap.
And the mileage should be a required field.

Eoin

note

prospect wrote:

Although I mostly agree with this, I don't fully agree.

It would be easy enough for carzone to have a referential database of car types. So when a dealer selects a Citroen & Berlingo, the VAN field automagically fills in.

Look at this search result:
All, Diesel, Coupes, Price= €1 to €10000
http://tinyurl.com/2ctvwg

That type of thing is easy to prevent.

Similarly they can only allow the engine options any particular car is offered in.
Also, they should be FORCED to give a price, I hate this P.O.A. crap.
And the mileage should be a required field.

I can see your point, but cars like a focus come in a hatchback, estate, saloon and car van, not to mention the amount of engine variants available. So, even if you tie it down to the valid options, it still leaves a lot of room for error, which the garages are sure to do.

whosedaddy?

I know its manual... but you can add the following to the url as well.

&owners_max=X to get only hits with X owners
&mileage_min= similar to &mileage_max= mentioned by steve06

you can also have multiple &ModelID=
so if do searches for the 523 and the 5 series, and copy the values you can get both displayed at same time.

same doesn't work for body type. can't show hatchbacks AND Coupes together.

Haven't found the table names for summary or comments.

WD

smash

so here you go...

you're looking for a DB9, F430 or Bentley Continental with 1 owner and a max of 20k on the clock... and you want to see thumbnails!

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/?fuseaction=search&ModelID=1729,922,693&mileage_max=20000&owners_max=1&ResultFormat=extended

whosedaddy?

the list is longer than I would have thought.. Unfortunately not my price range..

edit: deleted cause i'm blind...

prospect

steve06 wrote:

so here you go...

you're looking for a DB9, F430 or Bentley Continental with 1 owner and a max of 20k on the clock... and you want to see thumbnails!

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/?fuseaction=search&ModelID=1729,922,693&mileage_max=20000&owners_max=1&ResultFormat=extended

Brilliant, thanks, that is exactly the criteria I had for my next car.