Quantity Surveyors

kkelliher

hello all

I would welcome peoples perceptions of quantity surveyors and the services on offer.

If you have used them how did you get on, would you recommend to others.

If you have not what would make you interested, what service do you think you would like.

In my opinion, Quantity Surveying is very benifical to all builders (professional, self builder etc etc) but it appears that most people dont know what they do. How can this be changed? Everyone knows what an architect does but most dont know what a QS does?

I would welcome comments.

Regards

keith

smashey

I can see an element of advertising here. I'm locking this for now until muffler has a look.

muffler

Hmmm... I have been down this road before. Im far from happy with the thread title and I have my own suspicions as to why this thread was started.

I will leave the call on this one to smashey - he was first in - mutual respect and all that jazz

smashey

Unlocked.

Keith, while I fully understand the role of the QS, the perception seems to be that they are more useful in "larger projects". When it comes to building a house, most people are of the belief that the QS is only another professional fee to pay and that their contractor should be able to quote based on the drawings and their previous experience.

squire1

kkelliher wrote:

How can this be changed? Everyone knows what an architect does but most dont know what a QS does?

I'm with smashey on this one. I would not see the need to use a QS on a self build or a small one-off house project. It is the kind of work that can be easily covered between the Architecht, the Engineer and the contractor.

Maybe you could explain what benefits you feel that a dedicated QS could bring to a self build project because as you say, a lot of people, like me, probably just don't know.

kkelliher

squire1 wrote:

It is the kind of work that can be easily covered between the Architecht, the Engineer and the contractor.

This is the misconception i have been talking about, I dont mean to be specific and yes i am sure there are exceptions to the following based on individual peoples willingness to learn and educate but I do believe the general applies.

1) An Architect (No disrespect to Architects) or at least alot of architects have no preconception of the cost implication of choosing a particular product or changing a particular design. I have worked with very very many including some of the top firms in the country and they simply have no grounded idea of the changes from one item to another. Architects are designers, and will always try and design the very best product in accordance with the different regulations which is all that you actually do ask them to do. Unless they actually have an interest and want to learn about the measurement and actually financial costing of items they simply give their opinions and budget the items. If you take for example insulation. The majority of architects will spec a product by the leading manufacturer when a lesser insulation manufacturer makng a compartive product could save the end purchaser 20%. Architects are experts in what they do but they are not experts at pricing things properly.

2) Engineers are specifcally educated and trained in the structural design, loading and mechanics of building. Again experts at what they do they do not involve themselves in the acurite costing and measurement of a building. In everyday practice Engineers involve themselves with groundworks, drainage, structure, roof, mech and elec from a layout and design perspective. They never get involved in finishes and specification of items of architectural merit.

3) the builder does not ave any interest in protecting the client and therefore how would he benifit from having a QS working for the Client? The only benifit is that he knows that the client knows exactly what they are getting and the cost of each part.

All professionals can manage projects and all professionals can if they so desire and will to learn can do the job of other professionals but that is not to say that they should.

A quantity surveyor is educated and experienced in acurately measuring and costing down to a list exactly what has been designed and specified by the Architect/Engineer/Other. This allows the client to take each item and cost it individually with a number of people and allows the client to get the best price/quality/service on every item therefore getting the better price/service/quality of the overall project. The importance of this cannot be underestimated. At present you might get the best situatuion on 20% of items but why not get it on them all. Just because you decide to choose the cheapest contractor, or the contractor that is cheapest on the bigger items does not mean he is the cheapest on each of the items and therefore you could end up spending thousands more. It allows you to speifiy quality, price that item and compare that item to the price of competitors.

You wouldnt buy your bread in Tescos if bread was €10 even if the rest of your shopping was cheaper there so why is the building of a project any different.

I hope i made a little sense

Keith

squire1

Good stuff.

So basically what the QS will do is produce a BOQ from the Architects specification and source and price the appropriate materials and labour/subcontractors? Yes?

I am not underestimating how this could be of value to a client but in reality, anybody with enough "gumption" to put the effort in to be a self builder will probably be willing to put the effort in themselves to do this work. i.e. shop around for quality materials at the best price.

I have no doubt that an experienced QS will obtain better value for money than someone doing this for themselves but maybe the problem is that not everybody sees it that way or feel that the possible gains would be offset by the QS's fee.

What sort of fee structure is out there for one-off houses?

kkelliher

A QS will put reality and clarity into a costing. The amount of posts in this forum that have staed they have gone over budget is clear evidence of non realistic costings and budgets. You cant go shopping without a list otherwise you will forget things.

the cost of a bill of quantities is around €0.50 per ft² (as an average of course there are higher and lower, as always shop around) so how anyone can think that spending €1000 on a bill for a 2000ft² house is a waste of money in the scheme of things i dont know. You will save multiples of this with the bill of quantities due to your ability to do acuraite comparisons.

squire1

kkelliher wrote:

the cost of a bill of quantities is around €0.50 per ft² (as an average of course there are higher and lower, as always shop around) so how anyone can think that spending €1000 on a bill for a 2000ft² house is a waste of money in the scheme of things i dont know. You will save multiples of this with the bill of quantities due to your ability to do acuraite comparisons.

True, and in my opinion it would be money well spent.

As a paid up member of the Irish Institute of Purchasing and Material Management I find that the biggest problem in sourcing materials is a lack of specification from the client. Sometime they leave the specification up to me or worse still up to the supplier :eek:

An accurate measurement and specification allows me to clearly compare and contrast different price submissions from suppliers/contractors. The same would be true for the BOQ on a one off house.