North Quays bus lane

Traffic

A bus lane along Ellis Quay and Arran Quay will come into operation on Monday morning reducing journey times for those using public transport.

Its time to take the bus:)

popebenny16

The 90 bus will now slaughter the LUAS

krinpit

Yeah, the Luas around that part of town is painfully slow

Is the lane open to taxis also?

BendiBus

This will make a HUGE difference to every route coming up the quays. I may change the bus I take to work (79 instead of 78A) as a result, even if it means walking further to get the bus.

markpb

Sorry to be the only negative one but all that will only happen if the lane is enforced properly. And even then we'll still end up with the queue of buses stuck behind one car waiting to merge at the start of the bus lane.

Would have been much more effective if the bus lanes along the quays were contraflow, self policing if nothing else.

tbh

that's such a good idea, I'm peed off that I never thought of it myself.

whosedaddy?

DCC claims it will improve the bus travle times by up to 15min. I somewhat doubt this... Considering car traffic will remain pretty much the same - tailbacks will increase, thus impacting buses way further back. And not all access roads to the north quays have QBCs..
This is probably designed for the busses coming down the N4, and the other routes can suffer... hope I'm wrong tho.

krinpit

I'd say the car drivers further down the route will find alternatives on their daily rat-run

Traffic

The 39s and 37s from Blanch turn onto the North Quays just before the new bus lane but they have a bus lane right to the stop line

Ham'nd'egger

whosedaddy? wrote:

DCC claims it will improve the bus travle times by up to 15min. I somewhat doubt this... Considering car traffic will remain pretty much the same - tailbacks will increase, thus impacting buses way further back. And not all access roads to the north quays have QBCs..
This is probably designed for the busses coming down the N4, and the other routes can suffer... hope I'm wrong tho.

The lane will be effectively a continuation of the lane on the N 4 up to the SCR junction, along with extra hours on St. John's Road. Upon opening of this lane, this will open up central Dublin to public transport, not only from the D 10/D20 area and the west city, but also to long distance buses to and from Dublin; bus and taxi access out of Heuston will also be boosted greatly, allowing for Heuston to be cleared of passsengers more speedily.

bazzer

About friggin' time. Now can we also have decent bus lanes on Dame Street, Westmoreland Street, College Street, Gardiner Street and restrict O'Connell Street to public transport, bicycles and delivery vehicles only.

Hey, I can dream!

murphaph

markpb wrote:

Would have been much more effective if the bus lanes along the quays were contraflow, self policing if nothing else.

A good idea at first glance but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with disembarking so many passengers onto the narrow footpaths along the quays on the river sides. If they were able to alter the stops to widen them and allow more room for passengers to queue and disembark in safety. Imagine all the folks boarding the 78/79s on the other side of the road on that narrow path. It's already a free for all there on what is a fairly wide path. I know the 45s etc. board on the other side in what seems safe conditions on Eden Quay but they don't disembark in large numbers there IIRC. I love the euphemism "self policing" for being hit by a bus head on though

markpb

The contra flow quay lane wasn't my idea at all - I think Alex Smart suggested it. You're right though, it would need some work done to widen the footpaths and make safer. It would be much better than the new bus lane but would involve spending money and putting some thought into the idea and we'd rather just slap some white paint on the road instead.

AlekSmart

Well it opens up some rather effective use for an extension of the boardwalk principle...:)
There`s plenty of scope for thinking of this type,but it does involve a committment to be flexible and even confrontational in ethos.........Not really the way we operate tho...The essential element of Irish Public Administration is......Ambiguity.....well...kinda sortofa if you get my drift...

jimmycrackcorm

Once the Ballydowd QBC opens too this will mean a reduction in time from Lucan to the city centre by almost a half hour on the 25X. The only missing bit is the loss of the QBC to the M50/N4 roadworks. Looking forward to it.

Traffic

bazzer wrote:

About friggin' time. Now can we also have decent bus lanes on Dame Street, Westmoreland Street, College Street, Gardiner Street and restrict O'Connell Street to public transport, bicycles and delivery vehicles only.

Hey, I can dream!

These streets will have to be made public transport only in order to allow for the luas link link up

spacetweek

murphaph wrote:

A good idea at first glance but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with disembarking so many passengers onto the narrow footpaths along the quays on the river sides. If they were able to alter the stops to widen them and allow more room for passengers to queue and disembark in safety. Imagine all the folks boarding the 78/79s on the other side of the road on that narrow path. It's already a free for all there on what is a fairly wide path. I know the 45s etc. board on the other side in what seems safe conditions on Eden Quay but they don't disembark in large numbers there IIRC. I love the euphemism "self policing" for being hit by a bus head on though

What makes you think the contraflow lanes would be along the riverside? Surely they'd be next to the buildings as at present.

You'd probably need some sort of physical separation a la stephen's green east for a plan like that, and there isn't a lot of room to add stuff like that along most stretches.

I'm sick of the quays being treated as a dual carriageway by motorists.

Oh and can we get decent bicycle lanes on the quays now??

_Kaiser_

Am I the only one who thinks this idea is going to cause chaos in the morning?

I can't see a few extra bus lanes being enough to get people out of their cars. All this will mean is that rush hour will start even earlier than it already does, and affect traffic all over the city centre area as a result.

BendiBus

spacetweek wrote:

What makes you think the contraflow lanes would be along the riverside? Surely they'd be next to the buildings as at present

You'd have to change the direction of car traffic in that case, otherwise the passenger doors of the buses would face away from the paths.

I think this would be a lot more difficult to achieve.

BendiBus

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks this idea is going to cause chaos in the morning?

I can't see a few extra bus lanes being enough to get people out of their cars. All this will mean is that rush hour will start even earlier than it already does, and affect traffic all over the city centre area as a result.

It might make things worse for a few days until people get used to it. But it's schooh holiday time so it's a good time to introduce changes, while traffic is lower anyway.

And who cares what it does to car traffic? This change is made for the benefit of public transport users If the effect is really bad on motorists then maybe they WILL change to PT. If it's no big deal then there's no argument against it.

murphaph

BendiBus wrote:

You'd have to change the direction of car traffic in that case, otherwise the passenger doors of the buses would face away from the paths.

I think this would be a lot more difficult to achieve.

It would, and also remember that the city is a living space. The businesses along the quays need servicing too. We could impose draconian measures on them but it would just be easier to make modifications to the footpaths on the river side. Mini-boardwalk type things at stop locations would actually be perfect. There's far less chance of the contrflow bus lane on the river side being blocked by something than one on the building side.

Victor

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I can't see a few extra bus lanes being enough to get people out of their cars.

It worked on the Stillorgan Road - bus usage went up 232% when the QBC was introduced.

Appaently along the quays there are 5 times as many bus users as car users.

markpb

spacetweek wrote:

What makes you think the contraflow lanes would be along the riverside? Surely they'd be next to the buildings as at present.

I can't imagine why, it would make more sense to run them contraflow beside the river because it removes the twin plague of bus lanes: left turning traffic and bus lane runners. It also means that the left lanes are free for traffic servicing the businesses.

Victor wrote:

It worked on the Stillorgan Road - bus usage went up 232% when the QBC was introduced.

There's also a bus with decent frequencies on that route which helps a lot....

Victor

markpb wrote:

I can't imagine why, it would make more sense to run them contraflow beside the river because it removes the twin plague of bus lanes: left turning traffic and bus lane runners. It also means that the left lanes are free for traffic servicing the businesses.

And because its contra-flow, no taxis.

Victor

http://www.dublincity.ie/press_news/press_releases/new_quality_bus_corridor_on_dublin_s_north_quays.asp

Bus passengers on North Quays to save 15 minutes on their daily commute

---

Press Release 3rd July 2007

BUS PASSENGERS ON NORTH QUAYS TO SAVE UP TO 15 MINUTES ON THEIR DAILY COMMUTE

As part of the Lucan Quality Bus Corridor Enhancement Project, new bus lanes will come into operation on St. John’s Road West, Parkgate Street, Ellis Quay and Arran Quay on Monday 9th July between 7am and 7p.m., from Monday to Saturday inclusive. This new bus priority will benefit and enhance bus services from the west of the city ensuring a more reliable and consistent service, reducing bus journey times by up to 15 minutes during peak hours. This will mean that there will be a continuous bus lane to the city centre from the Celbridge junction on the N. 4 to O’Connell Bridge.

Dublin Bus surveys indicate that at least 1,275 buses operated by themselves, Bus Eireann, and private operators such as Mortons, City Link, Nestors and Kavanaghs will use the new bus lanes on a daily basis. Mortons have recently been given licences by the Department of Transport to increase their fleet by an extra 22 services per day, all of which will have come into operation by the end of September.

On average there will be a minimum of one bus every minute availing of this bus priority during the morning peak hours. Currently, during the morning peak, there are five times as many people using the bus as their mode of transport on the Quays rather than the car. The new bus lanes will give the added incentive to car users to reduce their commuting times if they change their mode of transport to the bus. Commuters making onward bus connections from Heuston Station on Dublin Bus can avail of more reliable rail interchange services. Taxis and the emergency services will also benefit with additional priority being given to cyclists through the provision of cycle facilities in conjunction with the new bus lanes on the North Quays.

“By 2008, as a result of additional buses in the fleets of Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann and private operators, we expect an increase of at least 60 morning peak bus trips, equivalent to an additional 20-25% increase in bus services along the North Quays”, says Ciarán de Burca, Project Manager of the Quality Bus Network Project Office. “We hope that commuters entering the city via the North Quays will make the change to a more sustainable mode of transport, saving themselves time and avoiding the likelihood of delays in doing so”, he added.

According to Joe Meagher, Chief Executive, Dublin Bus, “We expect that the planned priority measures will enhance the service to customers and we very much appreciate the work done by Dublin City Council in planning and implementing these priority measures. Hopefully more commuters will make the switch from the car to bus as a result”.

For further information contact: Dublin City Council Press Office Tel: M 086 8150010 or 2222170

Notes:

The following routes operated by Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and Mortons will benefit from the new bus lanes:

BUS EIREANN

All Bus Eireann Commuter and Long Distance services from the following areas will benefit:

Commuter: Portlaoise – Naas – Dublin (Route 126); Mullingar – Kilcock – Dublin (Route 115); Edenderry – Celbridge – Dublin (Route 120); Edenderry – Enfield – Dublin (Route 122); Kilcullen – Naas – Dublin (Route 130); Ratoath – Blanchardstown – Dublin (Route 105).

Long Distance: Waterford (Route 4); Clonmel (Route 7); Cork (Route 8); Limerick (Route 12); Galway (Route 20); Ballina (Route 22) and Sligo (Route 23).


DUBLIN BUS

All Dublin Bus services from the west of the city will benefit including the following areas: Lucan (Routes 25, 25A, 25X); Leixlip (Routes 66, 66A, 66B, 66X); Celbridge (Routes 67, 67A, 67X); Palmerstown (Route 26); Clondalkin (Routes 51, 51B, 51D, 51X, 151); Ballyfermot (Routes 79, 79A); Rathcoole (Routes 69, 69X); Blanchardstown (Routes 39, 39A, 39X); Damastown (Routes 38, 38A); Dunboyne (Routes 70, 70X); Castleknock (Route 37).

MORTONS

Celbridge & Lucan Village served by Routes CL1 & CL3 and Lucan South served by Route CL2.


OTHER BUS AND COACH OPERATORS SERVICING THE ROUTE SUCH AS NESTORS, KAVANAGHS AND CITY LINK.

PLEASE SEE MAP ATTACHED OF THE QUALITY BUS CORRIDOR ON THE NORTH QUAYS

bazzer

The 51B and 151 wouldn't benefit from this new arrangement at all - they go nowhere near the new set-up.

Other routes which will benefit, but which they haven't listed are:
39B, 39C (Ongar/Blanch)
66D (Leixlip)
68 (Newcastle)
70A, 70B (Dunboyne/Littlepace)
78 (N. Clondalkin)

murphaph

Anyine know how much of the 39 route is now bus lane? This section on the quays should help a lot with the appaling journey time from D15.

bazzer

In the grand scheme of things, I can't see it making a huge difference to the 39. It will certainly save a few minutes inbound, but the 39 then has to cross Capel Street Bridge and onto traffic-choked Dame Street. Outbound it will make no difference at all.

The 39 needs a root-and branch review.

murphaph

bazzer wrote:

In the grand scheme of things, I can't see it making a huge difference to the 39. It will certainly save a few minutes inbound, but the 39 then has to cross Capel Street Bridge and onto traffic-choked Dame Street. Outbound it will make no difference at all.

The 39 needs a root-and branch review.

Oh yeah, it's a long time since I've been on a 39. They used to go along the quays turning up O'Connell Street to Abbey Street but obviously the Luas mucked that up. 39 does indeed need a complete overhaul-it tries to be all things to all men and fails.

John R

murphaph wrote:

Oh yeah, it's a long time since I've been on a 39. They used to go along the quays turning up O'Connell Street to Abbey Street but obviously the Luas mucked that up. 39 does indeed need a complete overhaul-it tries to be all things to all men and fails.

The west Dublin routes should have been put back to Abbey St when the Luas construction work was finished, the street is barely used nowadays. Using the small section of tram way to Capel St with a full length bus lane on the right hand side of Capel St would have given those routes a decent sized terminus space and a quick exit from the city.

The lack of any bus priority outbound on the Navan Road is the other big problem with the trunk part of the 39.

The Blanchardstown/Clonsilla section is a complete disaster but the only solution I can see is to split the area in to a number of high frequency routes to each give small sections of the area a quick direct route to the city along with a number of local high frequency cross routes to link the various housing areas to the shopping/local amenities and the railway stations. The only way to do that would be to double or triple the number of buses used to serve the area along with some well-designed priority measures to ensure the buses make progress rather than sitting in jams.

murphaph

In this regard Fingal CC are playing their part I believe with adding bus lanes to both sides of Blanch road north/south and Snugborough (+extension) roads which feed directly into the Ongar Distributor which already has full bus lanes and that ties into the existing roads around Ongar which already have bus lanes too. There's plenty of potential there for a service free of car induced congestion but as you say-there aren't enough buses to do the business. I suppose if all these measures are put in place and if they could install a tidal centre bus lane with properly enforced yellow boxes at stops along the Navan road then the current D15 fleet would be enough as they's not be stuck in traffic. I think DCC have a lot of questions to answer.

markpb

So.... how did people fare this morning?

comer_97

It took about 6 minutes less than the normal quickest time on the 25X this morning. I think that was more down to the lack of traffic on the roads this morning.

The journey on the quays was maybe a minute quicker, the lanes were filled with buses so the buses didn't flow quickly, but it flowed.

If only they would take the cones of the bus lane at Ballyowen junction that might help too!

paulm17781

markpb wrote:

There's also a bus with decent frequencies on that route which helps a lot....

The decent frequency is in part due to the QBC.

BattlingCheese

67X user here and in work 20mins earlier then usual.
Quays seemed to work great although the traffic light outage at O'Connell bridge didn't help matters and there's still that big bottleneck where bus's, after stopping to let off passengers at Bachelors walk, need to merge out over two lanes to cross over O'Connell bridge.

Always seems to be the old rivalry with Morton's, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann etc all trying to leap frog each other at that point and leave the merge till as late as possible.

GerardKeating

BattlingCheese wrote:

... and there's still that big bottleneck where bus's, after stopping to let off passengers at Bachelors walk, need to merge out over two lanes to cross over O'Connell bridge.

Maybe if they continued those routes down the north quays and crossed over the Matt Tabbot Bridge it would solve this. Would also allow those routes to service Tara Dart Station, before resuming the existing route. when they reach the southside of O'Connell Bridge.

KC61

bazzer wrote:

The 51B and 151 wouldn't benefit from this new arrangement at all - they go nowhere near the new set-up.

Other routes which will benefit, but which they haven't listed are:
39B, 39C (Ongar/Blanch)
66D (Leixlip)
68 (Newcastle)
70A, 70B (Dunboyne/Littlepace)
78 (N. Clondalkin)

Also, our friends in Dublin City Council omitted the following routes that benefit:
90 (Heuston/IFSC)
91 (Heuston/O'Connell Street)
92 (Heuston/St. Stephen's Green)
748 (Airlink)

As Bazzer points out the 51B and 151 do not benefit, nor do routes 38, 38A or BE route 105 as they route via Cabra Road and Phibsboro.

monument

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Am I the only one who thinks this idea is going to cause chaos in the morning?

I can't see a few extra bus lanes being enough to get people out of their cars. All this will mean is that rush hour will start even earlier than it already does, and affect traffic all over the city centre area as a result.

Victor wrote:

Appaently along the quays there are 5 times as many bus users as car users.

Kaiser2000, if the stat reported and repeated by Victor is even half correct then I cant see any validation in your complaint.

Wook

well i hate it , it adds up 15 minutes to my travel times

Car driver

krankykitty

I live in Chapelizod, and the bus journey into town used to take at most 20 minutes.

On Saturday, I was 50 MINUTES getting into town. In other words, as a bus passenger, supposedly benefitting from the new system, I was 30 minutes worse off.

The traffic was pushed back as far as Islandbridge and beyond, to where there isn't a bus lane.

Traffic is just being pushed further back. This city is a planning nightmare and these half arsed measures won't change anything.

Ironically, I find the traffic in the weekday mornings by car has actually lessened, lol

mickoneill30

Walking from Henry St. - Dame St. on Friday I saw this big empty bus lane going down to O'Connell St. The reason. A truck driver was coming out of one of the lanes between Henry St. and the quays and had decided to queue across the buslane. There were piles of busses on the other side of him waiting to get past.

As a bus user I see this piles of times. Can the car drivers either let the guy in or can the guy who's crossing the bus lane please not stop on it. It's crap that one idiotic driver can hold up hundreds of people.

_Kaiser_

As someone else has said, all these new buslanes do is push the congestion further back up the road.

The simple fact is that Irish people do not like Public Transport (including at planning level), and will only use it if they have no alternative. Everyone wants (and in most parts of this country I'd say needs) their own car. It's the same thing with housing. Irish people don't want to rent. Everyone wants to own their own house.

But for those who will dispute this, here's some reasons why I (and no doubt many others) will not be giving up my car any time soon. To put this in context, this is as a former bus/train user for 25+ years.


1. Public Transport is unreliable. Never mind about journey times. It's no good telling people it'll only take 20 minutes to get to town on the bus, if that bus is late, full, or doesn't show up in the first place.


2. It's uncomfortable. Far too many times will a person have to stand for most, if not all, of their journey. This could be anywhere up to an hour (or more on some routes), crushed against other people as they try to squeeze their way to the front of the bus.
Whatever genius decided single-door double deckers was the way forward should be fired.

They're also frequently dirty, wet and either too cold or too hot because presumably they don't come equipped with AC, or the drivers can't figure out how it works.

Add to this being generally knocked and bumped around because the bus lanes are in terrible condition, combined with the poorly maintained suspensions on a lot of the buses, speeding drivers, and you wonder why people don't want to subject themselves to it?


3. Antisocial behaviour. Who wants to be subjected to a bunch of scumbags smoking, fighting, shagging, etc?


4. It's inflexible and longwinded. Public transport must stick to a fixed route, regardless of traffic conditions (although in some rare instances I have seen buses rerouted) and because of the way it's planned, far too many journeys involve a side-trip into town first.


Now, compare all that to the car:

- You can leave when YOU want/need to, without having to wait maybe 20-30 mins first.

- It's dry, warm/cool and comfortable (you're guaranteed a seat).

- You don't have to let anyone into your car that you don't want there.

- You can alter your route according to traffic conditions/reports.

- You can take a direct route between A and B, without having to goto point C first.

Until Public Transport in Ireland can even begin to compete on these terms (and I accept it's not all up to CIE - the Councils and Politicians all have their part to play too) then people will continue to drive their own cars, and no amount of pro-public transport, enviornment, PC rubbish will change that.

paulm17781

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Until Public Transport in Ireland can even begin to compete on these terms (and I accept it's not all up to CIE - the Councils and Politicians all have their part to play too)

I'm no fan of CIE but I would say the majority of problems are at government level. Transport 21 could have been finished in 2010 (assuming it started in 2005) if the political will was there, instead it was spread out over 3 election terms.

Dublin bus need to get ministereal approval to increase the size of their fleet, note the whole PDs "300 private buses" thing that bus users are still suffering over. I don't blame the drivers for not wanting to stop scum bags fighting / smoking /shagging etc. It's not CIE's fault that the government don't provide a decent transport police.

Saying that, Dublin bus could make an effort to keep the buses cleaner, it is amazing how filthy some buses are in the mornings, most of which couldn't be the fault of morning commuters. There are a range of options they could take to improve public transport experience: live bus times at buses, ticket machines at stops instead of paying the driver, double door buses... :rolleyes:

Del2005

spacetweek wrote:

Oh and can we get decent bicycle lanes on the quays now??

Are the bus lanes not also cycle lanes?

paulm17781

Del2005 wrote:

Are the bus lanes not also cycle lanes?

And what a safe place they are. The smallest and largest of road vehicles on the same road space. :rolleyes:

spacetweek

Del2005 wrote:

Are the bus lanes not also cycle lanes?

The bus lane is arguably the least safe place on the road for the cyclist!

cyclopath2001

Del2005 wrote:

Are the bus lanes not also cycle lanes?

No, but cyclists are permitted to use them, as are taxis, really big, wide luxury coaches, hop-on/hop-off tour buses, security vans, motorcyclists (apparently) and anyone else who's prepared to pay the very occasional fine and who doesn't mind the bad karma.

There are some cycle tracks on the North quays, but they're not up to the legal spec and are marked as 'non-exclusive'. And, oh, they're only present on the wider stretches where they're not needed.

spacetweek

cyclopath2001 wrote:

And, oh, they're only present on the wider stretches where they're not needed.

This is something that has been bugging me for ages. The fundamental problem is that when the road is wide, you don't need a cycle lane but it's easy to provide one, and when the road is narrow, you need a cycle lane but it's hard to provide one. So what to do?

It would be great to find out what they do in other cities in this situation. In the case of some stretches of the quays, a draconian way to make the space would be to build boardwalks along the Liffey side and get rid of the narrow paths, shifting pedestrians off the road and onto the boardwalks. Then the space freed up could be reassigned to bicycles. But this idea would prolly be too expensive what with the amount of boardwalk you'd need. I'm referring particularly to the horrible stretches like Essex Quay and Ellis Quay.