Dodgy Estate Agent - Is there anything that can be done?

Jamie76

Hi all, I have been at the sharp end of estate agent malpractice. Had my father not personally known the owner of a property (our first home) we were bidding on, we would never have known the estate agent was withholding our offer.

The seller had been informed that the highest bid on his property was some €22K lower than what we were offering.

We withdrew our bid immediately! The agent didn't really care and made no effort to hide the fact, I thought with the market slowing we could have expected a better and more professional service.

What can we do about this "dodgy" estate agent?

run_Forrest_run

just because the property market is slowing down do not expect those dodgy evil estate agents to suddenly clean up their act! They have made a huge amount of money so can still afford to chance their arm. All you can do it never use them again and tell others to steer clear of them also, name and shame is the only way the general public will safely avoid these cowboys.

Jamie76

run_Forrest_run wrote:

just because the property market is slowing down do not expect those dodgy evil estate agents to suddenly clean up their act! They have made a huge amount of money so can still afford to chance their arm. All you can do it never use them again and tell others to steer clear of them also, name and shame is the only way the general public will safely avoid these cowboys.

I agree with you run_forest_run, but how effective is name and shame? Surely others will fall victim to the dishonesty of this agent. I cant tell everyone!

Paulw

You might be surprised how many people actually scan these boards looking for info on estate agents and property management agents ... even if people don't post, a lot of people read and look.

It never hurts to make people aware.

flash harry

Jamie76 wrote:

Hi all, I have been at the sharp end of estate agent malpractice. Had my father not personally known the owner of a property (our first home) we were bidding on, we would never have known the estate agent was withholding our offer.

The seller had been informed that the highest bid on his property was some €22K lower than what we were offering.

We withdrew our bid immediately! The agent didn't really care and made no effort to hide the fact, I thought with the market slowing we could have expected a better and more professional service.

What can we do about this "dodgy" estate agent?

what a joke, this is were the commission system fails the seller - the exact broker was probably seeing less than 1% of the amount - so on 22K extra less than €220. He/she probably thought that it would be quicker etc with other offer (for what ever reason) or just wanted to close it and move to next deal......

irishpartyboy

Estate agents are unregulated. Anyone can actually apply to be an estate agent and run the so called business without having to adhere to any official rules / guidelines etc. So there's no governing body they are answerable to.

Beware & if you have a bad experience spread the word, that's all we can do.

Brian

stooge

I had a similar experience to the OP's with a certain estate agent in Fairview/Marino(dunno if I can state the actual name but its the first one you see on the left coming from town through fairview). Worst thing was, the smarmy little fcuker running the place was totally un apologetic and didnt give a toss. I know people who have rented places from them and been fcuked over as well.

Jamie76

flash harry wrote:

what a joke, this is were the commission system fails the seller - the exact broker was probably seeing less than 1% of the amount - so on 22K extra less than €220. He/she probably thought that it would be quicker etc with other offer (for what ever reason) or just wanted to close it and move to next deal......

Hi Flash Harry, I dont think it was about direct commission, it was as if he was trying to sell the house to a lower bidder (perhaps that is where the "bung" commiission comes into play)! Maybe it was his buddy :mad:

Zaph

I'd make a complaint to the National Consumer Agency about that estate agent. The business may not be regulated, but if there are more complaints that there are about dodgy practice like this it may force the government to create an Estate Agents Ombudsman like they have in the UK.

Here's a http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/ where you can make your complaint.

Jamie76

zaph wrote:

I'd make a complaint to the National Consumer Agency about that estate agent. The business may not be regulated, but if there are more complaints that there are about dodgy practice like this it may force the government to create an Estate Agents Ombudsman like they have in the UK.

Here's a http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Working_With_You/Submit_a_Consumer_Complaint/ where you can make your complaint.

Just after getting of the phone to the Consumer Connect, apparently there is/will be a body for this!

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/WP07000500

But its a Government body and its not functioning yet! Cant get any contact details either

Can I put an ad in a local paper naming this "dodgy" agent?

Jamie76

Re: Rogue Agent on the TV

I didn't see the Prime Time show but found it here:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/1211/primetime.html

It is shocking and disgusting and when they do the next show on this area I will certainly go on it to expose the "Rogue Agent" that tried to "do" us.

I also found on google a TV show that was similar in the UK:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/tv_and_radio/whistleblower/estate_agents_20060321.shtml

It is time to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth....

Oryx

You could try contacting Irish Auctioneers and Valuers Institute (IAVI) or the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers (IPAV), but they strike me as having no real power, and a vested interest in the industry.

Jamie76

KtK wrote:

You could try contacting Irish Auctioneers and Valuers Institute (IAVI) or the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers (IPAV), but they strike me as having no real power, and a vested interest in the industry.

Hi Kitty Kat Claws, As irishpartyboy was saying in his post this industry is unregulated! I dont know what procedures are in place within the IPAV and IAVA but can imagine that self regulation doesn't work and certainly with the government setting up this new autority (if ever? may have been an election stunt!) it would seem they have no faith in internal self regulation either!

This hurts me, innocent people struggling to get a small place of their own are being held to ransom by roque agents aka cowboys!

Oryx

Did you ever try contacting the seller? Especially as your father knew them? You could have still bid, but directly to them, bypassing the agent for that stage. (The agent still gets paid so youre not breaking any rules) Its how I confirmed the purchase of my first house.

Jamie76

KtK wrote:

Did you ever try contacting the seller? Especially as your father knew them? You could have still bid, but directly to them, bypassing the agent for that stage. (The agent still gets paid so youre not breaking any rules) Its how I confirmed the purchase of my first house.

Are you mad KtK? An Estate agent gets ~1.5% commission! For a €350K that €5,250! For what I ask you? And you suggest I should bypass him and pay him? Yes I should bypass him alright and save the €5,250 in case the ECB increase the interest rate again!

You are too nice KtK

Jamie76

Can I ask people to give their opinion on Estate Agents? from reading my posts people will see I had a terrible experience! In the interest of fairness I will ask for both the bad and good.

If the findings are as I expect I will print the discussion out after 1 week and post to every TD in Leinster House! It may revive the "property services regulatory authority" that is supposed to protect us all! Hopefully we will get a good response.

So get you friends and family to have their say, the floor is now open.....

Noelie

could you Bypass the agent and then refuse to pay the comission seeing as he wasn't acting on the best interests of the seller.

And isn't it the seller not the buyer who pays the comission, so Jamie76 you won't be paying him anything.

Jamie76

Noelie wrote:

could you Bypass the agent and then refuse to pay the comission seeing as he wasn't acting on the best interests of the seller.

And isn't it the seller not the buyer who pays the comission, so Jamie76 you won't be paying him anything.

Well, I pay the seller, they pay the Estate Agent! So indirectly the money comes out of my pocket!

Not sure about your first point, would be worth a try

Noelie

Jamie76 wrote:

Well, I pay the seller, they pay the Estate Agent! So indirectly the money comes out of my pocket!

Yeah but you offered X amount, so that's what your willing to pay. if the seller wasn't dealing with the agent you would still be paying X amount on the seller would be getting the money and not the agent. BTW I think the money is better off in the sellers pocket than the agents.

If anything it's the seller who should really be complaining about the agent. Have you or your dad let the seller know you've offered a higher amount?

Jamie76

Noelie wrote:

Yeah but you offered X amount, so that's what your willing to pay. if the seller wasn't dealing with the agent you would still be paying X amount on the seller would be getting the money and not the agent. BTW I think the money is better off in the sellers pocket than the agents.

If anything it's the seller who should really be complaining about the agent. Have you or your dad let the seller know you've offered a higher amount?

Noelie, you are right but without the agent the house would have cost me X amount minus 5K! If the seller is willing to sell for X amount, who has paid the estate agent me or the seller? It all hypothetical because I didnt buy yet!

Yes my Dad inforned the Seller, who immediately told the Estate Agent where to go! He has decided against complaining because he believes that self regulating bodies are a waste of time! I agree with him there! He is not selling the house now, cant blame him really! He thinks the estate agent was trying to sell the house to a friend on the cheap or maybe the agent got a "bung" plus the commission he would stand to earn! If you are getting a property for €20K less than market value you can afford to pay the agent a "bung"! No luck in that I believe!

Glough

:mad: I started bidding on a property about 6 weeks ago and every time I placed a new bid, within two hours the estate agent would come back saying I was out bid! I felt there was something suspect and decided to stop bidding 3 weeks ago. Today I got a phone call from this estate agent saying the property was on the market at my last bid! I am certain this estate agent was playing me against a phantom bidder! I told him I wasn't interested unless the property was significantly below my first bid! what a chancer this guy was!! Jamie, I support you call for a regulation system for estate agents, even in a slowing market this chancer was trying to maximise the house price!

antoinolachtnai

In principle, you can make a complaint against an estate agent to the local Garda seargant, who is responsible for the licence. You can also lodge an objection in the Court when the licence is for renewal.

Because the OP is not the seller (i.e., the agent has no duty to him) this is unlikely to work. It is unlikely to be worth the bother anyway.

sdanseo

An estate agent providing false information is tantamount to false advertising, covered under the Consumer Information Act. Follow the link above, make your case and he could quite easily be fined €3000. If enough people do this he'll be moving house himself :rolleyes:

Jamie76

Glough wrote:

:mad: I started bidding on a property about 6 weeks ago and every time I placed a new bid, within two hours the estate agent would come back saying I was out bid! I felt there was something suspect and decided to stop bidding 3 weeks ago. Today I got a phone call from this estate agent saying the property was on the market at my last bid! I am certain this estate agent was playing me against a phantom bidder! I told him I wasn't interested unless the property was significantly below my first bid! what a chancer this guy was!! Jamie, I support you call for a regulation system for estate agents, even in a slowing market this chancer was trying to maximise the house price!

Glough, Sorry for your trouble - but if it is any consolation you are not alone on this one! So many people are losing out to these cheats.

From what I hear they do not even have to keep a bidding record, so if you requested to see this to find out if you were bidding against some "phantom bidder" they dont have to show you it or they could make one up - Jimmy down the road etc etc! All I can say is do not give up!

These people are putting their hand into our pockets and taking our hard earned money! For what I ask?

Perhaps €20K means nothing these days? For me it does. This "celtic tigger, golden calf" certainly hasn't left me with that kind of money to be "screwed over" by a cheat!

snippy

I have so many stories about dodgy estate agent dealings as I went out with an 'auctioneer' (!) a few years ago. I would love nothing more than to name and shame, contact the papers etc with all the stories I have but because I'm currently tied up in messy legal battles with that very ex (who has swindled me out of sh*t loads of money with the help of an even dodgier solicitor) I can' t do that until its all tied up.

But basically the only people who have any realistic idea about the level of underhand dealings going on are the estate agents themselves and their solicitors. :mad:

EKRIUQ

irishpartyboy wrote: »

Estate agents are unregulated. Anyone can actually apply to be an estate agent and run the so called business without having to adhere to any official rules / guidelines etc. So there's no governing body they are answerable to.

Beware & if you have a bad experience spread the word, that's all we can do.

Brian

Estate Agents are more regulated than most professions,

Every year they must produce accountant’s reports of their accounts to the court.

They must make an application to the court to renew their licence.

They are govererned by the Regulatory body of the Property Service Providers, and their Auctioneering bodies.

But in the case of the original poster that is just Fraud, and should be refused his licence when time to renew next July. All you have to do is make a complaint to the superintendent next time you see a notice in the newspaper about their licence.

I was in the exact same situation as you OP, was livid to find out that the sellers had accepted a lower offer than ours because they thought it was the best offer on the table!
Turned out though that the people they sold it to were builders daughters and when the father went to investigate the property he found problems with the extension, problems we may not have found and that a surveyor may not have bothered mentioning to us so it was lucky for us.

I would report him, especially in these hard times, the last thing we need is idiots like that responsible for helping our economy!

antoinolachtnai

The regulation is very limited. It is administered by a local Garda superintendent. The financial supervision mainly amounts to making sure the agent doesn't run off with the deposits. I have never heard of a real estate agent being refused renewal of his licence, but maybe it has happened.

The auctioneering bodies are not regulators. They are industry bodies that represent some agents. The property services regulatory authority has no statutory backing, as far as I know.

Darragh29

Here's what I'd do OP....

I'd find the owner of the house that was for sale and walk up to their front door and introduce myself and say, "Well, I'm just calling in to give you a heads up one this, I made an offer for your house that was 20K odd above your asking price and the person who is charging you x,xxx Euro for obtaining the best price for you, decided for whatever reason, not to pass this information on to you, costing you 20,000 odd Euro"...

Friends or no friends, in this economic climate, 20K is 20K and it's a lot of money. The thoughts of the conversation that would follow on from that between the estate agent and the seller, would be enough to make my weekend, especially if contracts have now been signed!!!

CDfm

irishpartyboy wrote: »

Estate agents are unregulated. Anyone can actually apply to be an estate agent and run the so called business without having to adhere to any official rules / guidelines etc. So there's no governing body they are answerable to.

Beware & if you have a bad experience spread the word, that's all we can do.

Brian

Some of them have codes of practice if the belong to an Institute such as the IAVI.

But if the guy was pulling a fast one deal with the seller as its the seller who pays the commision.

As far as I know you can object to an Estate Agents/Auctioneers Licence at the District Court when its up for renewal - you can check with the court clerk of the local District Court how to make an objection.

golden

Zombie Thread started 2007!!

Toots

They discriminate against people who don't work. I rang politely today to enquire about an apartment advertised on Daft for rent, I was asked abruptly twice, do I work and what do I and my boyfriend do, I felt like my personal business was being invaded and like I was speed dating or something I only wanted to enquire about viewing the property!

Crappy and all as it is, I think this is par for the course these days. Most people I know who are renting through an agent have had to provide a reference from work, and most of them have also been asked for bank statements in some cases too. It's not as easy to rent somewhere as people make out.

I'd imagine it's because they want to be sure they're renting to someone who can actually afford to pay the rent, particularly considering the current climate. Doesn't excuse them being rude to potential clients tho.

the_syco

Kim56 wrote: »

They discriminate against people who don't work.

How would you pay for the apartment if you didn't work? The EA was covering their ass.

gimpotronitus

Anyone who does not take everything an estate agents says with a grain of salt is sadly being very naive. Estate agents are completely unregulated, and I mean completely. I have had a number of experiences, probably the best one was I was bidding on a house back in 2002 and every bid was met by another bid by some other bidder. The estate agent was even telling me that the other bidder was a mother trying to buy for her daughter and she was "crying on the phone" with each of my counter offerrs. I bought the house in the end because it was a nice house but the estate agent effectively determined the price - the market did not. A few houses later and the experience is the same.

Estate agents are the most dishonest, slimey and sleazy cohort that I have ever had the displeasure to deal with. I have met one honest estate agent who was open and honest about the process : "No we dont have any offers, look I am going to be straight with you - we want xxx,xxx for the house. If you are able to go there its yours". Only one, every other slimey, sleazy estate agent always seems to have an offer. How do I know its true? You dont, you have to accept their word for it.

They are a completely unregulated bunch of sheisters of the worst order, you need to seriously be very very careful with these people because they will do everything in their power to put their hands in your pocket and rob you blind - trust me from someone who knows what I am talking about.

What is needed in this country is a government body that handles ALL offers. The estate agents job then is simply to match buyers with sellers and they still get their commission. Any and all offers must be registered online with this new body against the address. If I, as a potential buyer (or seller), wish to see if there are any offers on a house, I simply go to the website and put in the address and click search and there are the (anonymous) *official* offers for the property. This will completely cut out these estate agents out for nothing more than to steal your money.

The corrupt estate agents should be jailed if found to behave in this manner, by my reckoning this would immediately remove 70% of them.

Buyer beware was invented for these people.

Next time your local friendly agent tells you there is an offer on a house - ask him to verify and see what reaction you get.

CDfm

In fairness an agent acts for the seller and not the buyer and its the seller who pays his commission. His job is to get the best price for the seller and thats whose agent he is and who he acts for.Thats how he earns a living. Higher price -higher commission earnings.

As long as he doesn't factually misrepresent the property it should be ok.

If you were selling you would expect the agent to get the best price so should not complain if you get the same treatment.

I am not an estate agent but caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) is a long established principal in property transactions. So you do your research.

gimpotronitus

CDfm wrote: »

In fairness an agent acts for the seller and not the buyer and its the seller who pays his commission. His job is to get the best price for the seller and thats whose agent he is and who he acts for.Thats how he earns a living. Higher price -higher commission earnings.

As long as he doesn't factually misrepresent the property it should be ok.

If you were selling you would expect the agent to get the best price so should not complain if you get the same treatment.

I am not an estate agent but caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) is a long established principal in property transactions. So you do your research.

Nobody is saying otherwise, however if agents make up phantom offers, which they absolutely do, then they should be put away because this is as good as stealing in my opinion.

There is no "in fairness". Of course they should represent the seller to the best of their ability i.e. present the property well, advise the seller how they can best maximise the selling price of their property, advertise it appropriately etc.. all those things are what the agent is getting paid for.

It is the illegal and slimey stuff estate agents get up to that anyone who has ever dealt with them knows all too much about.

I re-iterate my opinion: anyone agent engaged in this stuff (which is quite a lot of them) should be jailed.

eightyfish

Oryx wrote: »

You could try contacting Irish Auctioneers and Valuers Institute (IAVI) or the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers (IPAV), but they strike me as having no real power, and a vested interest in the industry.

The IAVI and IPAV can only have any power over their own members. The problem is that an auctioneer does not have to join one of these professional bodies. The IAVI have a complaints procedure what can be used against members. Is your agent a member?

eightyfish

golden wrote: »

Zombie Thread started 2007!!

Ha! Just read this.

Should really pay more attention.

*sleep*