to tell or not to tell that is the question?

sitout

while playing a live cash game last night in the macau one guy goes all in on the big blind for 57 euro (blinds 1 and 2 no raise before his action), its folded around to me and i look down at Q 10 SPADES i have 375 in the tank and have seen this move from this guy before and he usually has an AX OR 22,33,44. So i ask him do you want a call he shrugs his sholders, then i say you probally have AJ or AK and he says no straight away, "you have a pair then " again he shrugs so i tell him straight "if you have a pair il fold if you have AK or the likes il call and gamble a little ". "Ive a pair", he says fine i reply and fold . He shows me 99.

About and hour latter i pick up "22" utg the table is very loose and the pots are almost going to the river 40% of the time so if i feel fine calling 2 euro out of position here as i know if i hit im most probally going to get paid! remarkably the is no raise but everyone has called the 2 euro. The flop come out "2d, Kh, 7c" a very nice flop for me and as im first to act i decide to over bet the flop with my set (sometimes i check here but not on this table). I bet out 25 euro and the "pocket 99s" dude reraises to 75euro its folded around to me. Im certain im ahead here i stall for maybe 10/15 seconds and rereraise to 225euro! then he turns to me and asks "do you have 2pair?" i say "no". "hmmm do you have a set?" . I say "i might have a set". "if you have a set il fold he says" , i dont answere .... he calls and i win a big pot!

Needless to say he was not happy and complained that i should have told him my hand as he had extended that courtsey to me earlier! I told him that it was totally different situation as the first pot was for just over 100 and the secon was closer to a monkey. Im just wondering what people think here was i right /wrong?

thanks in advance shiobhan

Ste05

Seems fine to me, it is Poker after all, feck him and take his money.

Mr.Plough

you got paid. so nothing wrong there.

Scouser in Dub

you never said you didn't have a set and if you had wanted a fold you could have told him you had one while lying

I don't see anything wrong here

Washout

Im surprised ye got away with so much speech play.

El Stuntman

you stole that poor man's money!! I hope you feel ashamed of yourself, it's stuff like this that gives poker a bad name










wp

MarkR

Like Mr T says. Quit the jibber jabber!

kmick

I once got beaten by a guy who told me he was rasing without looking at his cards. As I had 10 10 I put him all in - he had KK and had actually looked at his cards but pretended not to. I learned a lesson that night. Don't be a plonker.
if you are you will get burned. This guy has also learned a lesson never trust anyone.

Also basically what were saying originally was that you would race him to line and give him a chance to win some of your money if he was not too far ahead. What he was asking was what is your hand. Subtle difference.

Theresalwaysone

Meh, you did nothing wrong. If he told you what his hand was earlier, his loss. He can't expect any favours.

Nice Speechplay

busted flush

wp,gg,gl. :eek:

CaptainNemo

He was stupid enough to go all in and then tell you what he had. He then asked you to be stupid enough to tell him what your hand was. You declined to be that stupid and he lost a big pot. He then berated you for not being as stupid as he is, referring euphemistically to the stupidity as "courtesy".

Nice hand.

P.S. hope no one takes offence at the word "stupid". I don't mean to be personal. But in poker surely the most stupid thing you can do is tell someone your cards.

CaptainNemo

Now that I think about it I had something similar happen in Las Vegas. I had been having a great chat with a guy at the table, quite a good player who had been on a huge rush, dominating the table but no one really minded because he was very funny. He had shown some mercy towards me in a couple of previous pots, nothing fantastic, but things like checking when he could probably have won another bet from me.

Anyway this hand comes up and on the turn there are 3 diamonds and he makes a bet and as he does so he basically lets me know he has a made flush. I have the A of diamonds in my hand and I hum and haw and then call and the 4th diamond hits on the river. He checks and I smile and say "You wouldn't lie to me about that flush would you?" as I stick a good-sized bet in. He calls and when I show him the nuts he flies off the handle and says things like "Now I know where I stand" and "You and me are through, buddy" and suchlike, and storms off to have a cigarette.

Anyway I went off to find him and I apologized, not because I felt I'd done anything wrong from a poker point of view, but because he really did seem like a genuinely nice guy who was genuinely hurt that I would use speechplay on him to try and extract money from him. So we shared a ciggie and I said I wouldn't be deceptive with him and it was all fine and dandy.

I remember I had a friend once and I was pretty hurt by how he acted towards me on the poker table. He'd lie his face off and basically use any trick in the book to get money off me, and had no scruples about it at all - to him, that was the game. Whereas when I get friendly with someone I start to not want to deceive them because I like to be a nice guy. It's a bit of a dilemma sometimes. I know that there's sort of a tacit agreement among people who play together a lot that anything goes at the table but a lot of others don't see it that way and you can probably spoil friendships this way. I'd be interested if anyone else has experience of this as it's something I've thought about a good bit and not found an answer to.

CoolBoardr

sitout wrote:

while playing a live cash game last night in the macau one guy goes all in on the big blind for 57 euro (blinds 1 and 2 no raise before his action), its folded around to me and i look down at Q 10 SPADES i have 375 in the tank and have seen this move from this guy before and he usually has an AX OR 22,33,44. So i ask him do you want a call he shrugs his sholders, then i say you probally have AJ or AK and he says no straight away, "you have a pair then " again he shrugs so i tell him straight "if you have a pair il fold if you have AK or the likes il call and gamble a little ". "Ive a pair", he says fine i reply and fold . He shows me 99.

What was your rationale behind this?

phantom_lord

one time in the fitz i rivered a straight against a guy, bet/raised river, he asked me did I have a straight, and without really thinking I shook my head. he called after a dwell up and needled me a bit when he saw my hand.

cardshark called me a scumbag



although, he was probably seething after i won a big pot vs him, where I played real bad.

insafehands

CoolBoardr wrote:

What was your rationale behind this?

I'd imagine trying to get some information through speechplay.

He didn't sign a contract saying he'd do as he said...

Or did he?

DeadParrot

Nothing wrong with what you did....

tipp86

think you acted fine i come across this a lot in the cash games i play im pretty bad for it myself you should have probably answered the first question and then politely say i cant tell you what i have before he got round to asking you every kind of question,i would have just said to him i think i have the best hand.In the first hand you were basically offering him the chance for a gamble if he wanted where he would most likely be going in a favourite.

CoolBoardr

insafehands wrote:

I'd imagine trying to get some information through speechplay.

He didn't sign a contract saying he'd do as he said...

Or did he?

I meant why didn't you choose to gamble against the pair instead of AK etc.

Tar.Aldarion

You even said you might have a set, nothing wrong at all.

BuChan

CoolBoardr wrote:

I meant why didn't you choose to gamble against the pair instead of AK etc.

lol i was thinking the same thing when i read this post. wouldn't you rather take the better odds race?

smilingatyou

ass, play with a guy in a home game, about 3 times in a game he will say on a dangerous flop, "god if some1 had XX here he would have a great hand," pretty much naming the nuts, then when it comes down to it he has them. works the odd time and i will never call/bet him in that situation unless i have the nuts with a flush draw:).
speach play is all well and good, provided you know people are full of shi*e anyway.

sitout

CoolBoardr wrote:

What was your rationale behind this?

i dont mind racing for 50 quid when its 60/40 but i do when im 4 to 1 behind.

Tar.Aldarion

Only 4-1 behind if he has kk/AA and then he would not say he had a pair!