Help with satellite dish

Chilliflake

Hi all

I got SKY about 2 months ago and the engineer attached a 60" dish to the side of my balcony and everything was fine. Except for the fact that we are not allowed have a dish permanently attached to our apartment (which we knew but were hoping to get away with for as long as possible as it was discreetly hidden). Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I had to take it down a month ago. Since then I've been without a tv service as the only supplier to our development is a company called Cablewatch who are charging a fortune for basic channels and a mediocre service at best by all accounts. So it's against all my principles to be forced into subscribing with them.

I have no idea about satellite dishes but gave it a go. I ordered a tripod on eBay and set that up when it arrived. I then attached the existing 60" dish to it but it wouldn't fit on the pole and then was too top heavy for the tripod, plus I didn't know how to find the satellite signal or connect it up. So I ordered a smaller, 43" dish and a sat finder, both of which arrived today and spent most of the evening setting them up. I have a quad LNB which is needed for SKY + apparently, so I took that off the existing SKY dish and connected it to my new smaller dish (which only came with a single LNB).

I did what the instructions instructed me to do and put the cables from the quad LNB into each side of the sat finder and tried to find a signal. The sat finder seemed to be working as it went up to 5 or 6 and the light was on, but then after that I just don't know what to do. Every time I take the cables out of the sat finder and reconnect them to the LNB, no signal. I'm not sure if the cables are even in the right connectors on the LNB but I've tried swapping them around (each connector says "P1" or "P2" etc,) but still no signal. I don't know how to find the signal and make sure the dish is going to pick up the signal, and then after that I don't know what I'm meant to be doing.

Should I be doing it at a certain time of the day or should I be doing something else? How come the sat finder seems to find a strong signal but that's as far as I can get?! I know I have to have the dish lined up correctly, but I'm not even sure how to do that because the sat finder seems to find a signal at every angle the dish is facing.

I'm sure I sound like a total moron but I'm tearing my hair out and tired of looking at the four walls while spending a fortune on satellite dishes and equipment that I can't work. I would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me as my last resort, apart from knowing someone who could fix it for me (which I don't), is to go with Cablewatch, but that means continuing to pay my €79pm SKY subscription on top of Cablewatch's sub, and I'm only 2 months into my SKY sub.

Help me!! Is there an engineer or a "satellite genius" of some description I could call that any of you know of that might call out to my place to have a look??

Many thanks everybody

Chilliflake

The tax man

You may want to post in the Satellite forum for an answer. This be the cable end of town around here.;)

watty

Read the ICDG wiki in my signature.

Unless the dish is on front of street or damaging fabric of building they don't have the right to make you remove it.

spockety

watty wrote:

Read the ICDG wiki in my signature.

Unless the dish is on front of street or damaging fabric of building they don't have the right to make you remove it.

You sure on that?

Any 'house rules' I've read for apartments will say that you "must not erect a satellite dish or any other receiving antenna"..

Doesn't say anything about specifically only drilled into the walls etc. You reckon the owner of a free standing pole mount dish could put up a fight?

Chilliflake

Thanks folks - will post in the Satellite end of town so! Sorry bout that...

And your right about the apartment thing - it states specifically in our lease that no satellite dishes are allowed, but the management co are willing to bend the rules for tripod dishes as they aren't permanent structures. My original one was attached to the metal of the balcony so it wasn't damaging the walls or drilled into anything, but they still considered it a permanent structure so the solicitor's letter came in the post. Technically they shouldn't allow any dishes if they're going by the provisions of the lease, but who am I to argue if they're "understanding is that the lease only applies to permanent structures".

Some joke all round to be honest, and a right pain in the a5s..

CF

byte

I think it has been mentioned in here before about the contract not allowing dishes is contravening EU law.

However, if you can get it to work on your tripod, happy days!

The tax man

Just out of interest, I've read loads of these threads were people are told to take down satellite dishes because of this and that. I've noticed a few people posting links to a ball like outdoor light that has a dish hidden inside it.I'm just curious if anyone got one and if they actually worked. From the pics of the thing the dish looked too small to work properly for Sky. Can't find a link to the product at all,probably because it didn't work.:p

spockety

byte wrote:

I think it has been mentioned in here before about the contract not allowing dishes is contravening EU law.

Problem is, people SAY things like that, but don't back it up with concrete links to the related documents that prove it. Nor can they point out anyone who took a case to court based on EU law in this situation.

If anyone can conclusively show that these apartment complex rules against Satellite dishes contravene EU law, I think there'd be a few thousand very happy apartment owners in this country.

mustang68

I agree, I have my doubts about this "eu law" about dishes. Does that mean I can if I have an apartment put up a three meter dish, I don't think so.......

If such a thing exists I believe it would have to be within local laws, if I was renting an apartment I wouldn't be allowed put up a dish without the landlords consent would I?

talkingclock

spockety wrote:

Problem is, people SAY things like that, but don't back it up with concrete links to the related documents that prove it. Nor can they point out anyone who took a case to court based on EU law in this situation.

There you have one
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

spockety

talkingclock wrote:

There you have one
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/913&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

Holy. Crap.

mustang68

This being the main bit:

Concerns of an architectural and town-planning nature, which are often cited in this context, can be met by solutions which make it possible, where necessary and technically feasible, to minimise the visual and aesthetic impact of satellite dishes without impairing quality of reception, under reasonable conditions and at reasonable cost; such solutions can, for example, involve the location of the dish (indoors rather than outdoors) or the type of dish (e.g. a collective dish rather than numerous individual dishes).

spockety

Actually I feel THIS is the main bit...!

"The Communication stresses that private individuals, as the final users of these cross-border services, can cite the free movement of goods and services, fundamental principles which must be directly applied in national law. In addition, the right to receive information via satellite dish is related to the fundamental right to freedom of expression, which is established by the European Convention on Human Rights."

Should we make this Communication a sticky in this forum..?

mustang68

What is a communication, is it a directive? Is it law?

lucernarian

That EU law is suprisingly comprehensive!! Not much to dispute with that.

I remember the fuss there was about this issue on Joe Duffy one day. (It was a once-off:o) It would have been a very interesting link to send them.

wil

This communication appears to be an "opinion" (the lowest scale of the EU legal publications) and if so not in itself legally binding, but as it indicates could be the precursor for specific legislation. Without legislation or case law it only has political and moral clout. Dont quote me as I am not in the legal profession, my interpretation is purely a personal opinion. I dont think there is any specific legislation relating to satellite dishes which I guess is why they published this.
If a case was taken or legislation passed it would most likely be largely in favour of the satellite user based on this document.
(Is anyone aware of any specific case law other than the one I mention below?)
But the existence of this document could be a very useful tool in any battle with a management company etc for instance, and provide weight behind any threat to take a test case to court.
Pages 13 to 15 are the most relevant to the situation above. A letter from your solicitor with the full 17 page document might be enough to get them to back down.
On the other hand they may be obstinate and continue imposing unfounded restrictions on the basis that few people would be willing to take court action.

Example of a previous infringement where the EU Courts found for the satellite user..
Belgium 1997 introduced a satellite dish tax into their laws. A complaint was lodged by a Belgian citizen in his local court, subsequently taken to the European Court of Justice. The Commission deemed it contrary to EU rights, told Belgium so in a communication (reasoned opinion). The Court of Justice subsequently found it to be contrary to the Freedom of Services in accordance with the communication. On accession to the EU, Malta also repealed its satellite tax law following a communication and refunded tax paid.

wil

Your other woes re setting up you dish sound very similar to many others posted (same symptoms - good signal but no picture). Actually you should find it alot easier with a proper tripod than a wall mounted dish because access is not an issue. You are most likely finding Hotbird or Astra 1 with your sat finder. If your 60cm dish was too heavy for the tripod, it must be very flimsy because I have a 90cm on a short sturdy tripod with no problem so far.
I can assure you it doesnt require a genius to set up a dish, patience and experience are a big help as this pretty ordinary guy can now get a dish on target in a few minutes.
For stability it is better to keep the dish as low as possible perhaps close to back corner of balcony to avoid kicks etc, just ensure you have a clear view of the SE sky
Unplug digibox before connecting lnb etc.
You need to start by connecting P1 to the satfinder, satfinder to digibox lnb in (not IF, take care).
You DONT connect both ends of satfinder to lnb, if that is how I read your post.
Switch on digibox, go to System - Signal test
Basically you need to point your dish approximately in same direction as your Sky dish was then systematically slowly scan either side of that point raising or lowering the dish elevation a degree after each.
Once you get a signal on the satfinder, make smaller movements, fine tune to the best signal. On the digibox you should get 0002 07d4 and at least 60% on quality and strength. If you get different numbers you are on wrong satellite (with some exception) most likely on Hotbird or Astra1. If so scan dish to left and slightly down until digibox signal shows details as mentioned. You may have some problems with the lnb not being completely compatable with the dish shape. This shouldnt completely stop you getting a signal but could affect weaker channels. You should be able to get a picture with the satfinder in place, if you remove it, take care not to nudge the dish out of position. Good luck

Take a look at wattys very clear instructions on
http://bytelive.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=How+to+align+a+satellite+dish

or D Sullivans very comprehensive digibox specific info on
http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/updates.htm

As this type of info is requested so often, I suggest it get a separate sticky and not buried in a weighty FAQ

Sponge Bob

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