Whats he up to??

The Doktor

First time post in this section, but I thought you guys might have a few ideas.
I live in a small enough estate, every now (maybe twice a week)and then I have noticed a guy, sitting just inside the entrance to the estate with his laptop for an hour or two.
This evening I was outside, and saw him park his car outside the estate, walk in and sit down with a laptop.
Now Im a suspicious and grumpy type of person, I am making assumptions that he is using other peoples wireless broadband....
So I ask you knowledgeable guys and girls, is there anything innocent he could be up to?
If ye cant think of anything innocent, is using other peoples broadband actually illegal??

ethernet

He could well be doing just that. Best tell the neighbours to tighten up on their security settings.

I suppose it's illegal -- theft? At least two people have been arrested in the UK for doing it so it's only going to be so long before it happens here.

pickarooney

Broadband theft - can you imagine the bag of evidence in court?
If people choose not to lock down their wireless routers, 'their' broadband is fair game, IMO.

There are dozens of 'innocent' things he could be up to besides, from writing a book to playing counter-strike.

TheDriver

Its always an interesting one that if you broadcast waves from your modem with no encryption, can someone be to blame for picking the waves up? Same way that tv waves into your home (leaving tv licence out of it) or satellite beam to you, its illegal to use encrypted ones without pay but non encrypted are free so always curious. Its could be claimed to be morally wrong of course. The main thing is if someone hasn't their BB locked, then should they be to blame as the mjor suppliers by default give it to you locked with an easy to follow booklet how to use. The other issue of course is that you have a guy sitting outside your house which is a bit freakish and also of course the fact that he is watching houses.

BostonB

Probably is. Tbh if he looks dodgy it would be worthwhile reporting him to the cops. Who knows what hes doing, broadband theft could be the least of it.

In my experience, many people don't know how to lock down their routers. Most access points don't have a key assigned by default which makes it worse.

standbyme

Karsini wrote:

In my experience, many people don't know how to lock down their routers. Most access points don't have a key assigned by default which makes it worse.

a

Never heard of locking down your router-how do you do that?

I get a lift some days into town by a friend who works for eircom & mentioned about the router & when a laptop is near enough your pc with bluetooth enabled only you can see the encryption code (im assuming) cos i gave it to my brother when he had his laptop one day, but only to use around house.

Btw: i use eircom BB.

cosmic.engineer

He MAY be stealing BB, or he could have an agreement with your neighbors, he just might not want to bother them everytime he wants to use it. My cousin has such an arrangement with his neighbors. Dont go wasting the time of the Gardai with something so silly; talk to your neighbors.

I dont agree with people stealing BB from others, even if the people being stolen from didnt secure their net.

More importantly I dont agree with the prices that are being charged for inet access in this country and the lack of service. Ireland was a joke a few years ago, now it is just sickening when you see how far beind we are compared to the rest of europe.

Steal from the providers not the people getting ripped off and conned by their providers.

BTW: eircom BB are ripping you off if they aren't then you are the only one

Hobbes

Looks like a wardialer. Call the cops anyway, could just be casing the place.

For all you know he could be downloading kiddie porn and the people he is pulling from are going to get the visit from the cops.

TheDriver

To lock your router, go to broadbandsupport.eircom.net and search, its very easy (only if u have a wireless router). Also, some people have wireless routers and don't need the wireless so you can turn this off also. Its all very easily explained in the booklet you got or on that website.
And Eircoms ones come with security activiated by default.

matt-dublin

eircom bb routers are all now standard encrypted wep.

i don't know about other providers.

PeakOutput

Hobbes wrote:

For all you know he could be downloading kiddie porn and the people he is pulling from are going to get the visit from the cops.

thats what i was thinking

i think everybody should leave their routers unencrypted then everyone will have free wifi wherever they go(in general) and the world will be a better place..............obviously leaving aside the risk of someone downloading kid porn from your connection

RobertFoster

He might just like the scenery. The free broadband is just a plus

rymus

Fon; it's the way of the future ya hear!

Anti

If ofly it was your router. I could show you how to mess with him big time. Using java and perl we could flip the page upside down, and back to front. And also invert all the colours. But it does seem like he is war driving. Go over and ask him what he thinks hes doing! Tell him to bugger off to a net cafe like other people!

The Doktor

It started to rain and he buggered off... Im gonna be watchin out for him, and next time I`ll ask what hes up to.
I understand the idea "if you are not protected then you broadband is fair game", but thats like saying, if you dont lock your front door, your house is fair game for scumbags to rob it. And lets be honest, most people dont know how to do anything with their router.

pickarooney

You're basically suspecting him of trespassing on someone else's property, without knowing who he is or what the agreements he has with anyone else are re: right of passage. If anyone in your area has a FON router or a grain of altruism, he's perfectly entitled to use access - if this is even what he's doing.

Sitting down with a computer is considered dodgy behaviour nowadays? I hope you're all typing from magic-bean abacuses.

I can just imagine the phone call to the cops...

pickarooney

The Doktor wrote:

It started to rain and he buggered off... Im gonna be watchin out for him, and next time I`ll ask what hes up to.
I understand the idea "if you are not protected then you broadband is fair game", but thats like saying, if you dont lock your front door, your house is fair game for scumbags to rob it. And lets be honest, most people dont know how to do anything with their router.

Hardly the same. It would be like scumbags breathing your air if you left a window open or at worst drinking from your outside tap because you didn't padlock it. Of course by 'you' I mean 'some other person none of whose business this is of yours'.

The Doktor

pickarooney wrote:

You're basically suspecting him of trespassing on someone else's property, without knowing who he is or what the agreements he has with anyone else are re: right of passage. If anyone in your area has a FON router or a grain of altruism, he's perfectly entitled to use access - if this is even what he's doing.

Sitting down with a computer is considered dodgy behaviour nowadays? I hope you're all typing from magic-bean abacuses.

I can just imagine the phone call to the cops...

I had put a long post as to the why and why nots of asking people who look a little susicious what they are doing.. but its not an argument for this forum, so I wont enter into it....;)

BlackWizard

I know a lecturer from DCU informed the networking/security class that we cannot log onto someone elses router without their permission. I'd like to think that he knows the legality side of his profession so I guess its illegal to hop onto someones router without asking them.

I know my router is completely open to the neighbours. Sometimes it can get bogged down. But luckily enough, none of the neighbours abuse it. But if this guy was to park up outside my estate I'd probably tell him to F-off and stop loitering our streets. Or call the Police and say there is a paedophile outside the estate checking out all thel little kiddies.

Hobbes

pickarooney wrote:

I can just imagine the phone call to the cops...

It would go something like this.. "Hi there is a guy in a car across the road he keeps parking outside the neighbors house and loitering there every day."

Ignoring the laptop anyone else doing this would get the gardai called out. Like I said for all you know he is casing the place.

Even then it is illegal to connect to someones broadband without their permission.

Kali

Guys no need for a thread full of irrelevant metaphors.

OP - if you have an issue with this guy and feel he is up to something dodgy then check yourself to see if there are any open wireless networks and inform the owners (this can be as simple as a little note in the letter-box).

No need to call the cops for something you can remedy yourself (plus they're not going to fix or remedy any security issues)... but if you want to get all Nancy Drew then connect yourself and run a packet sniffer to see what he's accessing.

Anti

Kali wrote:

Guys no need for a thread full of irrelevant metaphors.

OP - if you have an issue with this guy and feel he is up to something dodgy then check yourself to see if there are any open wireless networks and inform the owners (this can be as simple as a little note in the letter-box).

No need to call the cops for something you can remedy yourself (plus they're not going to fix or remedy any security issues)... but if you want to get all Nancy Drew then connect yourself and run a packet sniffer to see what he's accessing.

Thats alot of hard work if there is quite a few networks open. Hell for all we know he might not be on a open network but a closed one. Even encrypted networks take no time to break into. Ive only ever tried this from a whitehat point of view though.

witnessmenow

Ok loiering outside, this would be fine to report him to cops but doesnt he own/rent the house hes "loitering" outside? He might enjoy being outside, it could be his internet! I go outside to go on the internet some days using my own wireless.

And also i think that if the wireless is unprotected it should be fair gain. Protecting a wireless signal is a very simple thing to do, eircom modem comes with a password already set up. i have a router for a diffrent modem aswell and id say the instruction booklet on how to secure the internet is about half an a4 page. its not really an excuse to say you dont know how to protect it! RTFM!

BlackWizard

Throw stones at him.

Problem solved.

The Doktor

BlackWizard wrote:

Throw stones at him.

Problem solved.

and shout "oi mister... mister.. what are ye doin?.... i`ll get me da after you!"

cool... ill do it!

humbert

Legally speaking I'd say it's much the same as leaving your front door open, it's still not legal for someone to walk in. There is of course more plausible deniability, but not if he's driving to sit on the persons wall.

Drag00n79

A friend of my brother's has been getting broadband from the house next door for about two years now.

mach1982

It doesn't really matter if you have security( WEP or WAP) they can be cracked if a few minutes.He might just me mapping all the access points thats all.

mathias

It doesn't really matter if you have security( WEP or WAP) they can be cracked if a few minutes.He might just me mapping all the access points thats all.

That depends on your password/passkey and depends how its made up , a six digit code using non alphanumeric symbols such as *!£ and a combination of upper and lower case and numbers is very secure , taking up to years to crack depending on the class of attack , heres a table of passwords and how long it takes to crack using different classes of attack.


http://www.lockdown.co.uk/?pg=combi


Look at the above site , using that , its easy to see that the best security for your home network is WPA/PSK , and use the full 63 characters for your passkey with a combination of upper and lower case , numbers and non alphanumeric characters. You can save your passkey say , on a USB stick in a notepad file and copy and paste when you need it , so no need to remember it.

If you do that , your network is secure unless someone parks outside your house with a good big iron server in a truck and a food and supplies for a couple of months ! It certainly wont be broken by someone with a laptop!

Quick edit: Note the examples on the bottom of the page and particularly B33r&Mug , for heavens sake dont use "that" password , make your own using that example of how its made up ....had to post this last bit, just in case

Khannie

Note: This post is pedantic!

mathias wrote:

heres a table of passwords and how long it takes to crack using different classes of attack.

The table is actually somewhat flawed. A brute force attack would take longer than they suggest because it requires the attacker to rule out all previous combinations which they do not take into account.

e.g. Let's say my password is "zzz". A brute force attack has to rule out "a", "b", "c", etc. as well as "aa", "ab", "ac" etc. before getting to "aaa" unless they know the exact length of my password (they wont). So in the simplest case (the 10 characters table) 9 digits actually requires ruling out 111111111 possible passwords, and not 10000000 as suggested. As you get to larger possibilities (adding characters etc.) this difference becomes substantial.

TheDriver

BlackWizard wrote:

Or call the Police and say there is a paedophile outside the estate checking out all thel little kiddies.

Thats an awful thing to do unless you seriously suspect that, would you like if someone called the guards with a complaint that you are a rapist or paedophile?
Call the Guards and tell the truth, many people fought and died for Irish Freedom to get away from being accused of things people made up in their heads.

mathias

Note: This post is pedantic!
"heres a table of passwords and how long it takes to crack using different classes of attack."

How so ?

The previous poster had said that it doesnt matter if you have WPA /WEP , that they could all be cracked in minutes ,( hardly a trivial detail ) that table gives an estimate of how long each type takes to crack , your post reinforces it and says they underestimated the time to crack ...so even better !

So how is that pedantic ?

Khannie

mathias wrote:

So how is that pedantic ?

Ah it was just a very small error on their part.

Duggy747

Dirty bastard is nicking yer Wi-Fi frequencies. I call him a bastard cuz I can pick up my neighbours Wi-Fi but it's encrypted with a WEP and I only have the standard Intel Wireless Network Card which renders it useless for picking up and tracking packets. And I ain't spending that much on a AirpCap dongle!

Hmmm, maybe I should break into their house with a gun and balaclava and demand they give me the password! *goes to buy gun*

mach1982

Duggy747 wrote:

Dirty bastard is nicking yer Wi-Fi frequencies. I call him a bastard cuz I can pick up my neighbours Wi-Fi but it's encrypted with a WEP and I only have the standard Intel Wireless Network Card which renders it useless for picking up and tracking packets. And I ain't spending that much on a AirpCap dongle!

Hmmm, maybe I should break into their house with a gun and balaclava and demand they give me the password! *goes to buy gun*

You don't need a AirCap dongle, just get cheap wireless card that can be set into monitor mode, then you download some programs to do all the capture and cracking.I haven't done it myself but I see videos and tutorials.

Capt'n Midnight

matt-dublin wrote:

eircom bb routers are all now standard encrypted wep.

i don't know about other providers.

WEP is soooo broken

The main problem is if someone was surfing child porn guess who the ISP will point the finger at ?