VRT reduction for hybrids/flexfuels to end on 31 Dec 07

JHMEG

The 50% reduction in VRT for such vehicles is to go.

From http://www.revenue.ie/index.htm?/leaflets/vrt1.htm#11

This relief is confined to category A or B vehicles and expires on 31 December 2007.

Means one of two things: the VRT/roadtax system is actually going to change on Jan 1 2008, or, the govt and its civil servants are more stupid than originally thought.

Seth Brundle

Why more stupid?

JHMEG

kbannon wrote:

Why more stupid?

Ok, I suppose that's an impossibility.

Elessar

I'd say the VRT system is changing. I have heard unconfirmed reports that the revenue want to charge VRT by how much emissions an engine produces (or maybe that was the tax...)

Either way, with the greens in, they want a change to the entire motor tax system.

Henry Ford III

A change to an emissions based road tax is a certainty.

The VLC's for new cars have contained the co2 emissions for some time.

Seth Brundle

tsk - going from one crap & unfair system to another because it sounds good!

JHMEG

Initially when I read this, I looked at is as a bad thing.

But if the system is to be overhauled in the way the govt originally claimed then vrt and tax on hybrids could actually go down. On the flip side the tax will probably go up on anything 2 litre or above, moreso if it's petrol.

Tipsy Mac

Anyone know what's the VRT situation with imported hybrids?

JHMEG

Tipsy Mac wrote:

Anyone know what's the VRT situation with imported hybrids?

Normal rules for hybrids apply.

R.O.R

Looks like Volvo dealers will have to push all the FF S40 / V50 they've started stocking and get rid of them before the end of the year! Crazy situation where you can buy the 1.8SE (Leather etc.) for less than the 1.6i S model.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

or, the govt and its civil servants are more stupid than originally thought.

Or perhaps the government, just like Toyota and Honda, copped on very late that diesel rather than petrol hybrid is they way to go for the short to medium term

smash

God i hate our tax system....

Henry Ford III

R.O.R wrote:

Looks like Volvo dealers will have to push all the FF S40 / V50 they've started stocking and get rid of them before the end of the year! Crazy situation where you can buy the 1.8SE (Leather etc.) for less than the 1.6i S model.

If the road tax position changes next year to an emmissions based one, this may not be necessary.

Imagine for example €100 p.a. for your flexi fuel vehicle and €5000 for a gas guzzling mpv?

MercMad

No way any category is going to cost less after they change the system, thats for sure !

Someone told me the Yanks did a survey whereby they proved that a Hummer had a smaller carbon footprint than a new Toyota !! I haven't any other details of this BTW !

Mc-BigE

This has been going around for a while now.

The government’s proposals are already available to view:
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/MotorTaxConsultation/

They propose different CO2 categories and if your car is over 200co2/km, VRT and road tax will be higher then what it is now.

and if your car is between 100-150co2/km, VRT and road tax should be lower then what it is now.

If you’re buying a high powered car buy it before Dec 07 and if you buying a small economical car wait till Jan 08

This is only a proposal and will probably change or be more complicated than above.

Bottom line is any system brought in will have to be "revenue neutral" which means if VRT/Road tax drops, petrol/diesel price go up to compensate.

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

Or perhaps the government, just like Toyota and Honda, copped on very late that diesel rather than petrol hybrid is they way to go for the short to medium term

How did you reach that conclusion? Neither Toyota or Honda are bringing out diesel hybrids.

The next logical step for them is flexfuel hybrids, as they both make flexfuel cars for the Brazillian market, and they both obviously make hybrids.

Unlike their euro counterparts, the Japanese don't have much love for diesel.

I reckon Mc-BigE is somewhat correct. Low CO2 emissions tax/vrt will go down. Average, and things stay as they are. Higher than average and everything goes up. Current average cc is between 1.7 and 1.8 litre according to the CSO.

Henry Ford III

Fuel cell technology looks promising too.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

How did you reach that conclusion? Neither Toyota or Honda are bringing out diesel hybrids

I didn't make my point very well. What I meant was non-hybrid diesel instead of (full) hybrid petrol

JHMEG

unkel wrote:

I didn't make my point very well. What I meant was non-hybrid diesel instead of (full) hybrid petrol

Diesel is not the way of the future, imho.

But anyway, we should see what way it'll go in Jan. I expect (& hope) hybrids and flexfuels will be cheaper when the new regime comes in.

Henry Ford III wrote:

Fuel cell technology looks promising too.

Potentially the holy grail. Fuel supply will be a problem. Honda's FCX will be hitting the streets next year in the US. For now Honda plan on supplying the hydrogen themselves.

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote:

Unlike their euro counterparts, the Japanese don't have much love for diesel.

...which is kind of irrelevant. If the market want diesels, it'll get diesels, and if Honda & Co don't get on the bandwagon, they won't sell product.

Proof: they avoided it long enough, but were forced to invent the Ctdi engine, and guess what? It's actually very good. See, that wasn't so hard now Honda, was it ?:rolleyes: Pity about the 10yrs worth of sales lost to the rest of the manufacturers while they stuck their head in the sand.....

All they need now is to do a 1.7 version and they world'll be their oyster, just don't take 10 years to do that............

And with the markets of France and Italy now being in excess of 70% for diesel, well hey...........there's a reason PSA make the 1.4 Hdi...............

JHMEG

galwaytt wrote:

...which is kind of irrelevant. If the market want diesels, it'll get diesels, and if Honda & Co don't get on the bandwagon, they won't sell product.

The US and JDM markets don't particularly want diesel. These are Honda's 2 biggest markets by far. The 2.2 ctdi was only really brought out for the euro market.

E92

If the new system is based exclusively on CO2 emissions, I predict a massive increase in the sale of BMWs (MINIs)and diesels in General next year here.

BMWs because they are so efficient with the Efficient Dynamics technology, so good it can even beat a Hybrid on petrol alone (the 530i does 37.7 mpg versus the GS450`s 35.8 mpg, and not only that but the BMW is faster from 0 to 60)
http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesandspecifications/0,,1156___bs-NQ%3D%3D%40bb-TEk%3D,00.html

http://www.lexus.co.uk/lexus_cars/gs/gs450h/specifications/specifications_index.asp?model=GS%20450h&spec=FUEL+CONSUMPTION


Diesels for the reasons everyone knows. I dont think Hybrids will, simply because they have such a huge discount already, and there will be diesels on sale next year and even dare I say it Petrols next year which wont be far off the CO2 emissions of some Hybrids.


As for the US and diesels, 2 of the `big three`in the US are introducing Diesels next year, Ford on the US`s best selling vechile, the F150, and the non Merc part of what was Daimler Chrysler are haqving a big roll out of Diesels, the Merc 3 litre CDI engine is being rolled out in too many Dodges, Chryslers, and Jeeps to mention. Of course Jeep already offer this engine in the Grand Cheeroke there. And Honda are bringing it out in the Accord therre in 2009, VAG are rollibng out the 2 litre TDI 140 bhp engfine next year there, Mercs plans and BMWs plans for the US are well known as regards diesels for the US.

I would say that by 2010, Diesels will account for at least 20% of the US market.

JHMEG

E92 wrote:

If the new system is based exclusively on CO2 emissions, I predict a massive increase in the sale of BMWs (MINIs)and diesels in General next year here.

The celtic tiger is coming to an end, or haven't you heard!

unkel

E92 wrote:

I would say that by 2010, Diesels will account for at least 20% of the US market.

Bold and interesting prediction. I wouldn't bet against it though!