ROTR: overtaking in bus lane

Random

You cannot overtake on the inside except for the various exceptions.

What if a bus lane is 9am-7pm. You're driving along the road at 8pm. People plowing along slowly in the "normal" lane and you wanna go past in the now open to all bus lane .. can you? Or is this classed as undertaking ?

Mitch Connor

depends on the definition of slow driving - you can pass on the left if the right hand lane is moving 'slowly'.

Victor

Proceed with caution.

Stark

The general concensus I've heard from gardaí is that "slowly" means crawling along. Doing 50 in a 60 zone wouldn't count as slowly for example.

BrianD3

At off peak times on the N4 inbound, buses and taxis regularly use the 24/7 bus lane to "undertake" the traffic in the other lanes which will be travelling at 40-50 mph (i.e. not slow miving) I have never seen a bus or taxi pulled by the Gardai for this.

However there might be a different attitude shown to private car users using timed bus lanes. You can just imagine the exchange with some grumpy cop - he sees you in the buslane and pulls you over not realising that you're entitled to use it. You point out the signs stating 9am-7pm, he's now raging so decides to "do" you for overtaking on the left

Victor

BrianD3 wrote:

At off peak times on the N4 inbound, buses and taxis regularly use the 24/7 bus lane to "undertake" the traffic in the other lanes which will be travelling at 40-50 mph (i.e. not slow miving) I have never seen a bus or taxi pulled by the Gardai for this.

I think there is a difference in expectations between an operating and non-operating bus lane though. However, it might be lost on the users of the driving lane.

BrianD

A bus lane is marked by a continuous white line which you are not supposed to cross. Therefore, while you can use a bus lane outside of hours you can only enter or exit it where there is broken white line. Therefore, overtaking or undertaking in or out of a bus lane would be illegal.

Random

You say you can't dart in and out of bus lanes. That's fair enough. If the speed limit is 50kph. If I'm in the bus lane. If there's a guy doing 45kph on the outside. Can I continue past him in the bus lane or do I have to match his 45kph and drive alongside him?

Victor

BrianD wrote:

A bus lane is marked by a continuous white line which you are not supposed to cross.

No. Its the other type of 'continuous white line' which you are not supposed to cross. You are perfectly entitled to cross a bus lane line.

BostonB

ciaranfo wrote:

You say you can't dart in and out of bus lanes. That's fair enough. If the speed limit is 50kph. If I'm in the bus lane. If there's a guy doing 45kph on the outside. Can I continue past him in the bus lane or do I have to match his 45kph and drive alongside him?

Is it worth it for 5kph?

Quite often just after 7pm theres still queues around, if the other lanes are jammed up, I'll use the bus lane but take it handy.

Random

The question really isn't whether it's worth 5kph or not .. I put the speeds in to try and give as much info as possible for my example.

I just want to know if it's legal.

Thanks

Wishbone Ash

Edit: Post deleted!

phog

ciaranfo wrote:

The question really isn't whether it's worth 5kph or not .. I put the speeds in to try and give as much info as possible for my example.

I just want to know if it's legal.

Thanks

If you need a legal answer then surely you need to consult someone in the legal profession rather than quoting a thread on boards.ie as a defence.

BrianD

Victor wrote:

No. Its the other type of 'continuous white line' which you are not supposed to cross. You are perfectly entitled to cross a bus lane line.

Where does it say that? Is a continuous white line not a continuous white line irrespesctive of its usage?

Ham'nd'egger

BrianD wrote:

Where does it say that? Is a continuous white line not a continuous white line irrespesctive of its usage?

Brian, in the case of a bus lane, the white line is there to MARK off the lane; it would have no other context in road traffic law apart from marking off Contra Flows.

BostonB

It probably shouldn't be a continous line. But a dotted line in a different colour or something.

One problem is their times vary. So you need to be careful when its active. Even on the same stretch of road different sections can have different times for some bizarre reason.

Ham'nd'egger

BostonB wrote:

It probably shouldn't be a continous line. But a dotted line in a different colour or something.

One problem is their times vary. So you need to be careful when its active. Even on the same stretch of road different sections can have different times for some bizarre reason.

The trouble with using a different colours are

A) What colour do you use? Yellow/orange are used for parking restrictions and boxes at junctions so it's out; most other colours are too dark to be visually effective bar neon blue or pink. You could use a different colour lane altogether but that is time consuming to do up.
Such a distinction would need to be written into law to be legally enforceable; not to mention the cost of repainting same and who will bear same.
C) Years of the current marking have made a thick white line de riguer both here and overseas.

As it is, there is signage to mark off bus lanes along with a thicker line than any other road marking and by and large it works well. To say that there is mass confusion would be not be entirely correct as it isn't a major issue on our roads.

BostonB

Hamndegger wrote:

...To say that there is mass confusion would be not be entirely correct as it isn't a major issue on our roads.

Who said mass confusion?

Its just usually more useful to be consistent with rules, signage etc. Seems to be an alien concept in this country.

Random

phog wrote:

If you need a legal answer then surely you need to consult someone in the legal profession rather than quoting a thread on boards.ie as a defence.

Valid point .. I was hoping someone might point me to the bit of law which backs up their claim also, as most boardsies tend to do

BrianD

Hamndegger wrote:

Brian, in the case of a bus lane, the white line is there to MARK off the lane; it would have no other context in road traffic law apart from marking off Contra Flows.

It may well have the purpose to mark of the lane but common sense and the ROTR would indicate that you never under/over take accross a continuous white line. I don't follow what you mean by not having any context in road traffic law?

Mind having checked online, I note that the last piece of bus lane regulations was signed by Ray Burke It just states that the bus lane should be marked by a continuous white line but gives no other detail about the standing of this white line.

MrPudding

I had a taxi driver tell me he done done for crossing a solid white when he left a bus lane to pass a stopped bus.

If the bus lane line does not have the same properties as a normal solid white then why to they dash them at junctions and other places where people may have to cross them?

MrP

Victor

BrianD wrote:

It may well have the purpose to mark of the lane but common sense and the ROTR would indicate that you never under/over take accross a continuous white line. I don't follow what you mean by not having any context in road traffic law?

The law says don't cross line type X, it then describes line type X. I don't think anywhere does it say "never under/over take accross a continuous white line".

In a breakdown situation, would you refuse to use a motorway hard shoulder because it had a solid line.

cyclopath2001

BrianD wrote:

It may well have the purpose to mark of the lane but common sense and the ROTR

There are two issues here, the ROTR and common sense.

The ROTR is an approximation of the statutory regulations. The specific rule relating to crossing a white line while overtaking concerns a line of type RRM001 which is usually found in the centre of a road where overtaking is not permitted.

I can think of many common sense situations where it would be safe and allowable to cross the continous white line associated with a bus lane.

If there are no actual rules about exiting a bus lane to overtake a stopped bus, then the normal duty of care and consideration applies and if the manouvre is done within these, I cannot see how anyone could be prosecuted.

BostonB

Theres common sense, and then theres a Guard in a foul humour who want to waste your time.

NewDubliner

Then there's stupid inconsistent regulations such as the one that makes it specifically legal for a cyclist to overtake a bus that is stopped in a cycle track and, in effect, implicitly illegal to overtake an illegally parked car in a cycle track.

In many situations, road users must be grateful when the Gardai and other road-users adopt a common-sense & courteous approach to applying the rules.

MrPudding

NewDubliner wrote:

Then there's stupid inconsistent regulations such as the one that makes it specifically legal for a cyclist to overtake a bus that is stopped in a cycle track and, in effect, implicitly illegal to overtake an illegally parked car in a cycle track.

I don't think it is inconsistent, unless I am picking your example up wrong. There are a number of occasions where crossing a solid white line is acceptable. When you progress is impeded by a stationary object is one of them. Actually, I suppose if the taxi driver was telling the truth it is inconsistent. I'll get my coat.:(

MrP

BrianD

Victor wrote:

The law says don't cross line type X, it then describes line type X. I don't think anywhere does it say "never under/over take accross a continuous white line".

In a breakdown situation, would you refuse to use a motorway hard shoulder because it had a solid line.

I don't think you have been reading my posting in the context of the thread so I don't understand why you are asking this question with this example.

I was simply summarising the situation as regards continuous white lines as commonly encountered. Of course, I understand that there are exceptions to the rules for various situations as detailed in the ROTR. So therefore I think "never under/over take accross a continuous white line" is a reasonable summary under normal circumstances.

My understanding of the thread is that is it acceptable/legal to over/undertake into a bus lane as a routine driving manouever.

NewDubliner

MrPudding wrote:

I don't think it is inconsistent, unless I am picking your example up wrong. There are a number of occasions where crossing a solid white line is acceptable.

I'd agree, so why did the government decide to explicitly permit the passing out of a bus in a cycle track and not passing of illegally parked cars?

mobpd

Surely we should all be using and driving in the bus lanes when they are not in operation as I thought the general rule of the road here was to drive on the left? However I know that most perople using the N7 3 lane "dual" carriageway fail to grasp even that fundamental rule....

corktina

Oh perleeze dont tell them all about the bus lanes not being in use most of the time.......they are like my own private lane at the moment.....