Tricky 2/4 Hand

ianmc38

Still unsure on this hand. Would like some input.

Villain in the hand is a decent TAG - 25/18/3.6 over a big sample set.

He is ridiculously active in position opening nearly every pot in the CO or OTB. He was on 3 of my tables and i had position on him at all of them when this hand occured.

Due to getting a good run of cards, i'd inadvertently 3bet 75% of his LP raises over the past 30mins or so. I am sure he thinks I've been light 3betting him constantly.

Effective stacks are $400. He raises the CO to 16 I make it 54 with AKo. He calls. This is the first time he's called a 3bet.

FLop (110 or so)

K J T rainbow

He checks.

Please include advice for what to do in the event of 1. him check calling, 2. him check raising, 3. checking behind and him checking a brick on the turn.

bops

stack sizes?

bops

firstly it is obv that you've been 3 bettibg him light - he looks like he has just been patient - waiting for the hand to fight back

i'd guess this is the hand and your tptk is probably crushed - i'd honestly check behind and keep it as cheap ad possible to showdown

1) AQ maybe AA - dangerous but possible
2) Fold!!
3) I'd still check - although a 70$ bet is probably the proper way to play teh hand


...maybe im wrong (lol) but i just have a very bad feelin about this - smells of a monster

ianmc38

Sorry stack sizes added

Ste05

I presume you're OTB.

I'd check behind, call one bet on the turn and fold to a River push, I'd bet fold the turn if he checks and might even check behind again. It's a pretty disgusting flop.

sikes

has he ever 4bet?

ianmc38

Not in this session.

sikes

I dont like taking a check behind on the flop and a call on the turn line against good oppoents, because on this board we have exactly what someone would think we have, a hand we are trying to get to showdown cheaply. On the river we are going to have a situation where stacks are perfect from the villain POV for the river bluff push which we cant call. Our line i think is really exploitable.

If I check, I give up on the hand, becuase once we check on the flop, calling a turn bet is usually not profitable against good players.

Hectorjelly

sounds like a good reason to check behind, call a turn bet and then call all in on the river

sikes

Hectorjelly wrote:

sounds like a good reason to check behind, call a turn bet and then call all in on the river

if he is a bad player yeah, but we are assuming the villain is good. He would be the type of player who can turn his QQ/99 into a bluff with that action and board but he isnt bluffing enough for a call to be profitable becuase he simply shouldnt have enough worse hands in his range to do it.

I dont like playing hands like this against good oppoents becuase i think it shows a tendancy that can be exploited.

valor

Hectorjelly wrote:

sounds like a good reason to check behind, call a turn bet and then call all in on the river

yeah. Also if he checks the turn, I bet and call a shove and if he calls and checks river shove yourself

sikes

going by the previous hands, I would doubt his CC 3bet range is wide enough to consider stacking off with TPTK as being profitable

hotspur

Nasty flop alright. I think you're gonna have to check the flop. At the moment you can beat QQ and a pair smaller than TT being played for "screw you 3 bettor" set value, and tie with AK. If he has QQ he's calling your bet at least, with good odds, and you won't be any the wiser as to whether he has that, or a set, AA, AK, or even broadway. If you bet and he pushes it's a fold. I wouldn't worry about giving a free draw to a smaller pair.

You have played with him enough to have confidence in what his lines are with big hands, this is the hand where you need to act on that info. If he doesn't play his monsters passively then a check to you on the turn if a brick comes should result in you taking a pop at it for about 3/4 of the pot. Good players will not check a monster here twice, it's a dangerous board for him too no matter what he has. I'm fairly sure that a check from him then would mean you are ahead or tieing.

If he calls then checks the river you could push to try to take him off AK. If he check raises you all in on the turn you are being laid a decent price of 2-1 to call but I would decide based on my experience of him. Abstracted from having strong notes on him it's a call because if you weren't going to snap off a push then there was little point in betting the turn in the first place.

If he flat calls the turn then any non-scary river needs to be called if he bets and needs to be pushed if he checks.

If the turn has him betting out I would have not have sleepless nights about throwing it away. Sikes is right so that this line is exploitable, but I'd say rather that then get involved in a bigger pot on the flop than you can profitably get into. There is the world of difference between a lead by him and a check by him on the turn, if he's playing good and has a worse hand than ours that he's leading with on the turn then good luck to him he's won our $54. He has to follow that up with a push if you call so I would wimp out easily enough.

ianmc38

hotspur wrote:

Nasty flop alright. I think you're gonna have to check the flop. At the moment you can beat QQ and a pair smaller than TT being played for "screw you 3 bettor" set value, and tie with AK. If he has QQ he's calling your bet at least, with good odds, and you won't be any the wiser as to whether he has that, or a set, AA, AK, or even broadway. If you bet and he pushes it's a fold. I wouldn't worry about giving a free draw to a smaller pair.

You have played with him enough to have confidence in what his lines are with big hands, this is the hand where you need to act on that info. If he doesn't play his monsters passively then a check to you on the turn if a brick comes should result in you taking a pop at it for about 3/4 of the pot. Good players will not check a monster here twice, it's a dangerous board for him too no matter what he has. I'm fairly sure that a check from him then would mean you are ahead or tieing.

If he calls then checks the river you could push to try to take him off AK. If he check raises you all in on the turn you are being laid a decent price of 2-1 to call but I would decide based on my experience of him. Abstracted from having strong notes on him it's a call because if you weren't going to snap off a push then there was little point in betting the turn in the first place.

If he flat calls the turn then any non-scary river needs to be called if he bets and needs to be pushed if he checks.

If the turn has him betting out I would have not have sleepless nights about throwing it away. Sikes is right so that this line is exploitable, but I'd say rather that then get involved in a bigger pot on the flop than you can profitably get into. There is the world of difference between a lead by him and a check by him on the turn, if he's playing good and has a worse hand than ours that he's leading with on the turn then good luck to him he's won our $54. He has to follow that up with a push if you call so I would wimp out easily enough.

Good post. I was really lost at sea in the hand. I checked behind the flop. He checked again on the turn. I got a little bit of MUTBs and was afraid of getting crai by a hand I had beaten so i checked behind. In retrospect, I think betting is best here.

The river was another J and he bet most of the pot. I called and he tabled J9o for rivered trips. Pretty interesting to see the effects of regular 3betting has on a good TAG ie calling a reraise oop with J9o.