Forensic Photography

StewieGriffin07

I was want to know If anyone hss information On this type of subject?...
I was thinking of going on in this line of work and want to know more about it.. thanks

ThOnda

Basically we are talking about 100% technically correct photography. Correct exposures, no blurrness, no colour shift. Very demanding, very precise.

City-Exile

Is there much of a career in it?

Fajitas!

I'm sure you'd be dead busy.

City-Exile

Fajitas! wrote:

I'm sure you'd be dead busy.

Probably worth having a stab at it so then...

magicbastarder

my chemistry teacher when i was in fifth year in school (early 90s) arranged for the head of the forensics lab to come in and talk to us about a career in foensics. this was the guy who had had his feet blown off in a bomb planted by henchmen of (i think) the general. he was casually and cheerfully morbid about some of the things he'd seen, which i'll neglect to mention here. perfect for a room full of 16 year old boys.

anyway, point being that you'd probably want a strong stomach.
but photographically, a very unchallenging job aesthetically. no room for artistic interpretation.

City-Exile

magicbastarder wrote:

my chemistry teacher when i was in fifth year in school (early 90s) arranged for the head of the forensics lab to come in and talk to us about a career in foensics.

Dr. Jim Donovan, a fellow Cork man, credited with establishing the State Forensic Science Lab, in Ireland.
Look out for a book by Niamh O'Connor, called Cracking Crime.
I'm not convinced that they have dedicated photographers though.
Open to correction, of course.

311

I know a bloke who use to work at that ,he was based at the phoenix park.
He opened a package one morning and it blew up ,shooting pellets into his stomach .
Tough oul job.

City-Exile

_Brian_ wrote:

I know a bloke who use to work at that ,he was based at the phoenix park.
He opened a package one morning and it blew up ,shooting pellets into his stomach .
Tough oul job.

Yeah, the lab is in the park.
They get targetted by serious criminals.
If you are required to give evidence, you've automatically got a red target painted on you.
Photographers would be less high profile though.

magicbastarder

jim donovan (cheers C-E) has (or had) a 24 hour garda bodyguard; obviously a lot to do with the previous attempt on his life.
photographers may not be called to court nearly as much, as they wouldn't have to give evidence, bar maybe being called to testify that the photos are the ones they had taken, and that even would be unusual, probably.

311

City-Exile wrote:

Yeah, the lab is in the park.
They get targetted by serious criminals.
If you are required to give evidence, you've automatically got a red target painted on you.
Photographers would be less high profile though.

I don't actually think his name was on the package ,he just happened to open it.
That was a long time ago now ,I'm sure theres a procedure at this stage.

StewieGriffin07

Jasus, Thanks for all the info, How would I Know if I Had a strong stomach...Like I mean Id say It was ok...but you dont know until you see it In real life..Would therebe much of a career? .. Would the pay and hours be good?

311

I'd say the pay is good ,considering what your up against.
I wouldn't say it's an easy position to take up though ,the guy I was talking of was a gard before he started at the forensic evidence.

City-Exile

Probably best to contact them directly or start by reading this ...

melekalikimaka

my friends dad does that for the police, its very much a case of where your on call all the time

StewieGriffin07

Thats great thanks, I suppose I wiould need to get some advice from a person who is actually doing that work. Or just keep reading up on various things. Thanks again

StewieGriffin07

melekalikimaka wrote:

my friends dad does that for the police, its very much a case of where your on call all the time

Dont think that would be a prob for me ..lol

Spyral

I study forensics in Wales and we did our photography this year, I was 1% off a first :-(

Anyway, what you are doing is blunt photography. no modifying no art. Just cold evidence. a True record (as true as film anyway:P)

After you take a picture you could be asked WHY you selected an aperture of f8 instead of 4.6 or a shutter of 1/50 rather than 1/200 for example in a court and would have to justify it.

Generally though the crime scene examiners/investigators/technicians etc take their own photos.

And, that said, In Ireland the members of the forensic team are the gardai technical bureau. They are all gardai siochana. The only exceptions are the pathologist who must be a doctor specializing in pathology and the people who work in the lab in kildare. they are analytical scientists and DNA analysts i would imagine. additionally all toxicology for Ireland usually goes through Beaumont as its the only tox lab in the country. Other stuff can be sent to the UK (ie for mitochondrial dna from n00b gardai cutting hair rather than plucking it)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_photography

I wrote from "pictures as evidence must be" to just before the links.

so as far as I can tell and have found out, unless you want a lab job you must be a gardai, I could be wrong, and personally I hope i am wrong as I would like to do the whole CSI thing and not waste my degree

Deacon Blues

I'm almost certain that at the moment, you need to join the Guards, and do the whole Templemore thing and then get posted to the Garda Technical Bureau as a photographer. This is changing, and I think there's a fast-track programme being developed for specialists. It's a bit mad when people train as mechanics, radio officers, photographers and loads of other trades/professions externally, and then have to do the full Garda training when they join, in order to do a job. As far as i know, vaciencies for the GTB are advertised internally in the force, and if suitable candidates are selected, certain 'on the job training' is given. This is particularly suitable for skills like fingerprint collection and analysis, which are difficult to pick up outside the force. If they can't get suitables internally, they'll go external, and the vacancies will be advertised on publicjobs.ie. But, as I say, I think that at the moment, you're a Garda speciaist ... which means Templemore first. Two and a half years is a long waiting time to get to do the job you applied for in the first place, so, as you can imagine, there're considerable advantages to selecting candidates from within the force.

The whole thing is changing, with the UK model of civillian specialists (who have signed the Official Secrets Act or whatever, being employed.

As for the photography, probably the biggest part of it is the job you do and the things you see. In most cases, the photrography is mundane. The main emphasis is on recording a scene. Where there is a chance of the photos being submitted as evidence (which is always), film is always used (digital is not admissable in a court unless in exceptional circumstances, due to the possibility of manipulation, and if it is admitted, the judge may direct the jury not to place much credence to it ... a point to note for people whos "accident camera" in work is digital ... just buy a cheap disposible film camera, much less legal hassle if it ever needs to be used to record an accident scene for the HSE).

melekalikimaka

Deacon Blues wrote:

film is always used (digital is not admissable in a court unless in exceptional circumstances, due to the possibility of manipulation, and if it is admitted, the judge may direct the jury not to place much credence to it ...

is that still the case? a have a family member who works in health and safety and i thought that digital images of evidence are acceptable in court now?

Deacon Blues

Possibly. As I said, not admissable, unless in exceptional circumstances. That doesen't mean never admissible. That may have (in fact probably has) changed now. For almost any case, the chances of being able to submit still or video digital evidence is there ... CCTV, bystander camera phone etc. The chain of evidence is still paramount, and there will need to be oaths sworn by all involved that it hasn't been tampered with, but the "trustworthyness" of film still makes it preferable.

Digital images are still very useful, and are acceptable in investigations, as the ultra rapid publication of the preliminary report into the Salthill Airshow incident by the AAIU shows ... but when it comes to court things are a bit different.

All that said, I'm not a professional, just an interested amateur, so I know my information is a few years out of date. It's very possible that the courts have caught up with the technology. Similarly with the role of GTB photographer. That position is probably set to change to civilian specialist soon, but not sure where it is in that process at the moment.

Spyral

Right the deal with digital is "its new we dont like it"

Look at DNA - will be questioned to bits, fingerprints NEVER get questioned as fingerprints are 'established'

Similarly with film and digital. Film is around longer, most people think you cant manipulate film (hmm lets see.. filters, film type, exposure, flash setting, focus, processing method, post processing {dodge/burn/dye/printing technique}) but it is true that it is LESS easy to muck with film. especially as the negatives have to be held onto as evidence.

That siad digital has its uses; cheaper, quicker turnaround, can be enchanced more easily if necessary. For any forces in the UK that do use them 2 copies of the media must be made. one is sealed and the other is a working copy.

Generally though you get less arguments with film so stick with good old 35mm

I personally do hope the gardai start using civillains. In fairness I will havea science degree in forensics compared to a garda who studied the law and policing methods. Like use police for policing and scientists for science ya know ?

Deacon Blues

http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2890&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1826&sgDest=JOBLISTING

Xios

this is the gardai section for forensic photography.
https://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/jobdetails_eng.asp?JobID=2890&amp

/edit should've read the last comment there

Spyral

I'd love to apply but I have Uni to finish still... lol

Dades

Wow. That would be an 'interesting' job.

I know the guys in CSI Vegas use Nikons!
No idea about CSI Eire...

PaulieC

Deacon Blues wrote: »

http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2890&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1826&sgDest=JOBLISTING

The money's not great given the demanding nature of the job

melekalikimaka

Dades wrote: »

Wow. That would be an 'interesting' job.

I know the guys in CSI Vegas use Nikons!
No idea about CSI Eire...

THEY USE CANON:(

digitalbeginner

We will be running a dedicated Forensics Photography Course next year. The course will cover Black and White as well as Colour Film developing and processing along with Digital Imaging.

We're in the middle of designing it now and hope to have an announcement of dates etc early in the new year,

Dave

digitalbeginner

melekalikimaka wrote: »

THEY USE CANON:(

I believe they've just invested in a batch of Nikon D200's and many ordinary guards are using Nikon D80's at lower level crime scenes,

Dave

Dades

melekalikimaka wrote: »

THEY USE CANON:(

Well if you've seen 'em using Canon I guess it's down to whoever paid the most that season to promote their stuff - 'cause they've definitely used Nikons too.

Meh! Imaginary cops!

melekalikimaka

Dades wrote: »

Well if you've seen 'em using Canon I guess it's down to whoever paid the most that season to promote their stuff - 'cause they've definitely used Nikons too.

Meh! Imaginary cops!

maybe i be wrong... morethan likelyi am... i rememberseeingthe camera....thats ittho...thought it wasnikon maybe it was a d2x

xshayx

http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2890&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1826&sgDest=JOBLISTING
should have read the above 2 comments first!!

Spyral

on tv one of the GTBs was using a nikon d80 it looked like.. he chimped too ..

personally I think it could all be easily ripped apart in this country. Compared to the UK I dont think our forensics are that great.

Xios

xshayx wrote: »

http://www.publicjobs.ie/cand/JobDetails_eng.asp?JobID=2890&hdnGUID=&hdnJobID=1826&sgDest=JOBLISTING
should have read the above 2 comments first!!

lols