Digital SLR

berengar

Hi
I ´ve been thinking of getting a Digital SLR, maybe the Canon EOS 400D ?

I have been using a Canon Powershot camera, a great camera but i have been going to some photography classes and I see how much MORE i can do with
the lenses of SLRs..

I have been told though that the lenses that come with SLRs aren't great that
i am better off buying the body of the camera and getting the lens separately ?

Im looking for a lens with a good f range (28-120 approx) maybe a few filters aswell, UV , polarization etc .. anyome point me in the right direction ?

latchiko

You probably won't get many replies in the Digital Darkroom.
I followed a similar route to you, started out with the Canon Powershot S2 IS and upgraded to the 400D a few months back. The kit lenses which come with the camera are not great, but having said that I have seen some great shots taken with them. Having read a lot of the advice here I skipped the kit lens and got a 17-85mm lens as a walkaround lens and I am very happy with it.
As for getting the body and lens separately, there are bargains to be had by getting them together - even if you don't want the kit lens. I saved a few bob by buying a package deal with 400D, 17-85mm lens, spare battery, memory card, etc.

Paulw

Try

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036861

berengar

Ok cheers for that !!

rymus

yoink!

gaffmaster

I too am in the market for a 400d.

I was wondering where is the cheapest place to get one. i saw a link to an EBay store based in Hong Kong on here a while ago, but i can't find the thread.

Can someone refresh my memory please?

Thanks

amie.g

Hi, I bought my 400d a couple of weeks ago on eBay through Digital Rev from Hong Kong. Just type in Canon EOS 400D into the search. They have some really good deals. I got an extra battery, cleaning kit and 55-200 lens.

Good luck, hope you get something soon.:o

City-Exile

I got my 400D from this eBay store...
Based in the UK, so no import tax & it was cheaper than what I saw available from the Hong Kong based sellers.

ThOnda

That's the problem with e-shops. I am spending a lot money on monthly basis on the development and scanning. There are three possibilities:

1 - go on as it is
2 - buy a Pentax K10D + accs. in any shop in Ireland and pay monthly
3 - stop shooting and save money to buy Pentax K10D + accs. in e-shop

So far it looks like no. 3 is going to happen :-/

Does somebody know any good shop in the north? It should be cheaper there.

dubtom

City-Exile wrote:

I got my 400D from this eBay store...
Based in the UK, so no import tax & it was cheaper than what I saw available from the Hong Kong based sellers.

Jeese they have 18 neagtives in the past month alone,I wouldn't touch em with a barge pole.

DaireQuinlan

dubtom wrote:

Jeese they have 18 neagtives in the past month alone,I wouldn't touch em with a barge pole.

But they've also had 12000 transactions in the last month ! Any shop that stays over 99.5% is doing pretty well in e-bay terms ...

City-Exile

I've bought a few things off them. Everything turned up, as promised.

jackdaw

with the kit, the lens you get is usually 18-55mm , is this a good lens ?

is 55mm a decent telephoto size ?? I would expect not ?

and as for wide angle what is 18mm like ?

for example this photo
http://www.jstephenhicks.com/nature.html

photo no. 10

(i can't paste the exact link) the picture of the Zebras ..
I really like the way the background is so 'large' .. im assuming this is using a wide angled lens ? like 10mm ??

Stephen

The kit lens is normally enough to get you started. I bought a Sigma 70-300mm APO lens at the same time I bought my camera as I knew I'd be needing the reach of the 300mm.
A few months later I then bought a 50mm f1.8 prime, which is my favourite lens now.

The out-of-focus effect in photo 10 in your link is normally down to the aperture of the lens rather than focal length. The greater the aperture the shallower the depth of field. Confusingly, larger aperture = smaller f-number!

jackdaw

Stephen wrote:

The kit lens is normally enough to get you started. I bought a Sigma 70-300mm APO lens at the same time I bought my camera as I knew I'd be needing the reach of the 300mm.
A few months later I then bought a 50mm f1.8 prime, which is my favourite lens now.

The out-of-focus effect in photo 10 in your link is normally down to the aperture of the lens rather than focal length. The greater the aperture the shallower the depth of field. Confusingly, larger aperture = smaller f-number!

okay but the wide effect here , would be a lens of approximately what ?
20mm ?? 10 ?

and what do you mean by 50mm f1.8 prime ?
surely this lens has a range and not just 50mm f length ?

melekalikimaka

no range. a lense with no range is called a prime, Since they don't have a lot of moving parts like zooms, the glass inside of a prime lens is very precise.

Stephen

Yeah. Prime lens = fixed focal length = no zoom. Which normally means you can get some high quality glass for small money, the nifty fifties being most popular.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Hmm interesting reading... I'm still a DSLR noob.
What'd a 50mm prime usually be used for? portraits?
I like the idea of an inexpensive high quality lens... not sure I'd get the use out of it though.
Not sure I could get used to using the ol' bipedal zoom either

Stephen

Yeah portrait is a common use for 'em. I use it as a walk-about lens too. They are quite cheap - I got my Nikon 50mm f1.8 for about €100 on ebay.
Great for low light stuff (gigs for example) too because of the wide aperture - often enough to allow you to shoot in low light without needing a flash.
The widest the aperture on any of my zooms goes is f3.5, and that's at the wide end. When zoomed all the way in its a couple of stops less.

Mark#1

The blurb in this description alludes to the E-410 having a "Digital Imaging Stabilisation mode":

http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEW-OLYMPUS-E-410-D-SLR-CAMERA-E410-2-LENS-4GB-CF_W0QQitemZ180138691978QQihZ008QQcategoryZ31388QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

But Olympus' own blurb doesn't mention it:

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_E-410.htm


I know the E-510 has mechanical image stabilisation, but what does the E-410 have?

http://www.olympus.co.uk/consumer/dslr_E-510.htm


Quote from Olympus' own E-510 blurb:

"the E-510 employs Mechanical Image Stabilization, which compensates for camera movement. This new technology complements Digital Image Stabilization"

€720 for E-410 + 14-42mm + 40-150mm + 4Gb CF card?

Is that some sort of bargain or what?

BTW, anyone know if Olympus intend to market an underwater housing for the E-510?


Mark

mathias

In short , like digital zoom is only cropping a picture , digital image stabilisation is not image stabilisation at all , it is a scene mode , where you jack the ISO up as high as possible in conjunciton with the fastest shutter speed .

More often than not , this drops the quality of the final image considerably ,

It is not true image stabilisation at all , that is always a mechanical method , either in the lens or in the body of the camera , Like optical zoom is the only true zoom , digital zoom being something that is not a feature of the camera but a quality dropping exercise you could do on any computer.

Therefore , digital image stabilisation is something you should be able to do on any camera with manual settings , using it as a selling point is a con , and I would think twice about purchasing a camera from any maker who would use it as a selling point.

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/dismode.asp

Quoted from the link above ,

When selected using the cameras mode dial , Digital image stabilization Mode uses a high ISO sensitivity and fast shutter speed to enable you to beautifully and clearly capture images free from the blur sometimes caused by camera shake or moving subjects. From family events to sporting events, from still life to wild life, every image will be crisp and clear , just as you remembered it.

As anyone on this forum will tell you , the above is pure nonsense , and skirts dangerously close to false advertising in my opinion.


So , if your want true IS , buy a lens or a camera body with a mechanical movement , in the case of the camera body , its the sensor that moves , in the case of the lens , its a lens element that moves , Canon call it IS , Nikon call it VR , note that no Canon or Nikon AFAIK has stooped as low as to use " Digital image stabilisation"( as in the Olympus nonsense above ) as a selling point.

Regardless of which type of IS you buy , dont expect miracles , some sales assistants will have you believe that you will always get sharp pictures with IS , the truth of the matter is that no IS can compensate for a moving subject or a slow shutter speed , it goes about 3 stops worth of compensating for shaky hands , thats it !

daedalus2097

In fairness though, it is a hiked up ISO sensitivity, the image will have less camera shake blur, so they're not telling pork pies or anything. They just don't mention the higher noise the image will have (which is nothing to do with camera shake). It seems silly to have a dial position that does the same thing as hiking up the ISO on aperture priority mode though... All clever marketing speak but once you can spot it you're fine. The VR on one of my Nikon lens is fantastic I have to say, amazing to watch the difference in the viewfinder, but it doesn't work miracles.

mathias

so they're not telling pork pies or anything

I would say they are ! , How many people have bought this camera thinking it had image stabilisation ?
Quite a few I would imagine , and this ....

a high ISO sensitivity and fast shutter speed to enable you to beautifully and clearly capture images..........from still life to wild life, every image will be crisp and clear ........

From their own blurb , and given the high ISO aggressive noise reduction on that camera ( most reviews tell you to turn this off straight away as it softens every image) , this is a lie , simple as that !

duffarama

Is that link not for an Olympus compact with digital IS... an entirely different market to that of DSLR's surely?

mathias

Nope , its for the E-410 , or for that matter any Olympus with that "Digital image stabilisation" mode.

Regardless of which camera its on , its a con job , and Olympus should be ashamed of themselves. They are deliberately misleading customers here ! High ISO is not image stabilisation in the sense that most people would think and they know it !

duffarama

Is this the only thing you can attack Olympus on? AFAIK the e-410 is not advertised as having digi IS but it's there as an option for P&S upgraders buying their first DSLR. You're like some kind of man on a foolish mission, can't we all just get along?! It's who is behind the camera that counts after all and the 2 new Olympus cameras are well worth the money, surely you can't disagree? :rolleyes:

Stephen

I think he does have a point, using that as a selling point will sucker in lots of unsuspecting punters, just like digital zoom once did in the camcorder market. omfg 100x digital zoom!!11

mathias

Is this the only thing you can attack Olympus on? AFAIK the e-410 is not advertised as having digi IS ..........

Yes it is , see post 20 on the previous page ..... even worse , in some of the ads its just " image stabilization" and not "Digital image stabilization" , which is even more misleading ....
Whether is Canon , Nikon , Olympus or anyone else , false advertising is wrong and should be pointed out ,theres nothing foolish about stopping people getting ripped off ! I couldnt care less who the maker is .... any maker who practices this kind of thing goes down in my opinion , its never a good sign , what else are they lying about ?

Mark#1

That was me in post #20.

In fairness, I've been reading up on the E-410 (and other cameras) for about a month now, and that ebay item description was the first place I noticed anything about IS on the E-410.

I said before that Olympus' own site (olympus.co.uk, anyway) doesn't mention it. It actually does in the list of scene modes.

I just looked back over the dpreview.com review and it also list image stabilisation mode.

The presence or absence of IS isn't a big enough factor to sell a camera to me, though I do recognise its usefulness. If I knew there was an UW housing for the E-510, which I know has real IS, that might swing me towards that camera, but personally I'm leaning toward the E-410 over all of the competition at this time, and have started to look into buying on-line, where I came across that emilyandlily ebay item.

Mark

stereoroid

With optical zoom on DSLRs, watch out for the "crop factor" affecting zoom levels. With a film SLR, 50mm is 1:1, but on a DLSR with an APS-C sensor (1.33x crop factor), 1:1 comes at about 33mm focal length. This is a pain if you like wide angles like I do...

mathias

Actually its the focal length multiplied by the crop factor , so a 50mm becomes

75mm on a nikon with APS-C , crop is 1.5
80mm on a canon with APS-C , crop is 1.6

The 1.33 crop is actually called APS-H , and is on the new Canon 1Dmark III

Always goes up , never down ( in 35mm equivalents anyway)

ThOnda

And mounting your lense on Haselblad didjital sensor? Crop factor 0.33 ? :-D

mathias

Yes , was going to add that in about medium format but thought Id be going too far

Once your out of 35mm territory you extend the wide angle instead of the zoom. Thats because most use a 35 mm frame as a base , so smaller sensors than 35mm have a multiplier , larger frames have a divider , or multiplier less than 1 if you like ! (1 being equal to a 35mm frame)

Quote from Shooting fish ! And a reminder to self , usually accompanied by a sharp kick to the shin from the Missus !

One must never forget the pain technical knowledge can inflict on people

ThOnda

To keep me happy and to keep Canon users jealous - there is lense mount adaptor for medium format lenses to Pentax lense mount. So I have home in my closet 185 mm medium format Zeiss lense. Mounting it to K10D will be like creating A-bomb :-) My little boy will be heavy, loaded with glass, but very precise and sharp. I am lazy to count the crop factor and the final focus lenght, but I am looking forward to it :-)

Monasette

Hi Berengar,
The kit lens with the Canon 400D doesn't have a great reputation but I was happy enough with it (I bought it with the 350D, the predecessor of the 400D). It's very light ( so Image stabilization isn't really needed), it's a 58mm filter thread (so buying filters are relatively cheap) and it covers a standard set of focal lengths (equiv. of 28 -70 on a film camera). Plus, it's cheap, so you won't feel too bad if it gets a knock. Mine has survived hikes all over Connemara with nary a problem.

You might be as well discover what your main passion is before buying more lenses :- ie. ultra-wide angle for landscape or telephoto for sport, portrait or wildlife.

BR,
John

jackdaw

what about the kits with the battery ? do they include a charger ?

or do you charge the camera with the battery inside ?