Peace & Harmony between the two tribes, will it ever happen

It will soon be ten years since the signing of the "Good Friday Agreement", the two tribes seem as far apart now as then.

They seem to have no interest in getting on with their neighbours, instead they are constantly agrivating them by "sabre rattling" with flags, banners, coloured kerbstones, Marching bands & bonfires etc (I'm referring to BOTH sides here!)
In fact anything that maintains the sectarian divide. All you need to do is look at the last election results to see that they only voted for politicians who represent "their tribe", the only good thing is that they dont kill each other as often as they used to.

THe "love ulster" discussion hightiighted the divisions again, it also demonstrated that there are some here who will like to maintain that division.

Will it still be like that in ten years time?? (I hope not, but am pessimistic)

scojones

Moved from After Hours.

Dave!

I presume you're talking about Norn Iron... When did we start calling them tribes? We don't live in Africa.

And don't be so bloody alarmist. Fact is Republicans and Unionists AREN'T as far apart now as then. The Assembly is back up and running. There is a power sharing government made of the two most polarised parties. Bread and butter issues are being addressed. There is no longer bombs going off on a regular basis. Most people aren't living in fear of their lives. The IRA have decommissioned their arms completely, and ceased to take part in illegal activity (so says the IMC). The UVF have also ceased their military campaign. The British Army have taken down their watchtowers, and have drastically reduced their numbers in the north. SF sit on the policing board, and have agreed to support the PSNI.

Don't be ridiculous please.

Things aren't completely hunky dory, but they're not nearly as bad as even 10 years ago. Things still have to be addressed in order to bring the communities together, but it's not all doom and gloom by any stretch of the imagination.

mike65

Until the average Joe no longer thinks "hmmm with a name that like he's a Catholic/Protestant (delete as applicable) things will not have moved along much. I suspect many are happy knowing they belong to a homogeneous group of likeminded souls.

Mike.

Things are getting better and will continue to do so, abliet not at the pace everyone would like.

murphaph

So long as they're not killing each other or killing innocents then I suppose it doesn't really matter that they don't get on all that well. They are more alike than they realise up there of course. It'd be 'nice' if someday the surname didn't matter and I'd say in some limited quarters (middle classes, students) it doesn't matter but there are a lot of 'working class' people in NI compared to here which is and always was the section of society most affected by it all.

Fratton Fred

a bi more immigration will help as well, hopefully living amongst people from other cultures will help them ease their way into that place they want to avoid...the 21st century.

qwertyphobia

Isn't it the case that in the last ten years there is less mixed areas in housing. Basicily people are more likely to live in either a cathloic or prostant area then ten years ago?

I would find that very worrying. As it stands it's not in the interests of almost every political party and "community group" for things to change. They get there power from being the players in their group. So it's unlikly that they would ever play a majour part in dismantling their own power base.

O'Leprosy

Deleted User wrote:

It will soon be ten years since the signing of the "Good Friday Agreement", the two tribes seem as far apart now as then.

They seem to have no interest in getting on with their neighbours, instead they are constantly agrivating them by "sabre rattling" with flags, banners, coloured kerbstones, Marching bands & bonfires etc (I'm referring to BOTH sides here!)
In fact anything that maintains the sectarian divide. All you need to do is look at the last election results to see that they only voted for politicians who represent "their tribe", the only good thing is that they dont kill each other as often as they used to.

THe "love ulster" discussion hightiighted the divisions again, it also demonstrated that there are some here who will like to maintain that division.

Will it still be like that in ten years time?? (I hope not, but am pessimistic)

I hope I don't sound too combatative in my reply to you, wishing for a peaceful Ireland is praiseworthy, but, well, it comes across as a bit condesending and patronising.

I see you refer to the nationalists in the six counties as part of 'they'. Are they not 'our' people ? Ofcourse we'll have a few smart ass west brits to come on and insult nationalists from the north, we don't want the north etc, but I wonder, if some unionists arrived in Athlone, flaunting the butchers apron, Fing and Bing the Pope, the Free State, wearing UVF t shirts etc, doubt if the people of Athlone would be asked to tolerate it ? Nor why should they.

If any county in south, say Monaghan, had been part of the unionist state, and say, Fermanagh part of the 26 counties, doubtless their would have been as much trouble in Monaghan as in any of the other counties entrapped under british rule ? What "maintains the sectarian divide" is british occupation, that the northern state was a secterian state through and through didn't come about because someone made a mistake, it was exactly what the british government enginnered as a means of occupying part of the country. Same with the partition of India, Cyprus etc.

I am from a border county, I cannot speak for everyone from the border, but if you asked most of the people of my area which do they feel more in common with when it comes to nationalist sentiments, the people in the north or people further down the country, no doubt the north would win hands down.

Fratton Fred

O'Leprosy wrote:

I hope I don't sound too combatative in my reply to you, wishing for a peaceful Ireland is praiseworthy, but, well, it comes across as a bit condesending and patronising.

I see you refer to the nationalists in the six counties as part of 'they'. Are they not 'our' people ? Ofcourse we'll have a few smart ass west brits to come on and insult nationalists from the north, we don't want the north etc, but I wonder, if some unionists arrived in Athlone, flaunting the butchers apron, Fing and Bing the Pope, the Free State, wearing UVF t shirts etc, doubt if the people of Athlone would be asked to tolerate it ? Nor why should they.

If any county in south, say Monaghan, had been part of the unionist state, and say, Fermanagh part of the 26 counties, doubtless their would have been as much trouble in Monaghan as in any of the other counties entrapped under british rule ? What "maintains the sectarian divide" is british occupation, that the northern state was a secterian state through and through didn't come about because someone made a mistake, it was exactly what the british government enginnered as a means of occupying part of the country. Same with the partition of India, Cyprus etc.

I am from a border county, I cannot speak for everyone from the border, but if you asked most of the people of my area which do they feel more in common with when it comes to nationalist sentiments, the people in the north or people further down the country, no doubt the north would win hands down.

It is not a British occupation, Britain has as much right to "Northern Ireland" as the Government in Dublin.

Crappy attitudes like yours cause sectarianism and as long as there are people with opinions like yours, there will never be a united Ireland.

O'Leprosy

O'Leprosy wrote:

I see you refer to the nationalists in the six counties as part of 'they'. Are they not 'our' people ?.

The "they" refers to both sides (of the same coin) "they" are all Irish inho.

I can't speak for the people of Athlone, but I wouldn't go to see it if they came and marched down the main st.

As for the rest ... totally sectarian & blinkered viewpoint.

well that's why I am pessimistic about future peace.

qwertyphobia

qwertyphobia wrote:

Isn't it the case that in the last ten years there is less mixed areas in housing. Basicily people are more likely to live in either a cathloic or prostant area then ten years ago?

I would find that very worrying. As it stands it's not in the interests of almost every political party and "community group" for things to change. They get there power from being the players in their group. So it's unlikly that they would ever play a majour part in dismantling their own power base.

Yes, that's why I refer to the "two tribes" it's almost like self imposed "arpartheid" with a bit of "ethenic cleansing" thrown in where people in the minority group in a mixed area move out because they don't feel comfortable living there anymore.

O'Leprosy

Fratton Fred wrote:

It is not a British occupation, Britain has as much right to "Northern Ireland" as the Government in Dublin.

Crappy attitudes like yours cause sectarianism and as long as there are people with opinions like yours, there will never be a united Ireland.

Britain had no more right to occupy any part of Ireland than the Nazi's Czechsolavkia. A united Ireland will be acheived around 20 years or so due to the nationalist birth rate, it will have nothing to do with 'persuading' the unionists to join a united Ireland. Despite the offical face unionism may put on, many unionists are secretly resigned to the fact that United Ireland will come about in the next 2 or 3 decades. It will have to be economicially united first before political unity takes place, and that is already happening. That's why SF helped to enginneer and sign up to the Good Friday Agreement. Nothing you can do to stop it pal. Indeed, with the Scots moving more and more in the direction of indepedence , the question mark is over the future of the British state ?

is_that_so

In the same way affluence has meant things house prices mean more to us than the vexed question, in due course the attitude in the North will change.

In answer to the original suggestion , yes I think they will get along.
There is a lot to be gained from working together towards a common goal - delivering public services.
Over time even the parades will end up as "that lot doing their marching again", much as it is a curiosity in Donegal. Politically the North has been "parked" so that the executive can get on with learning to live with each other. There is very little political traction to be gained from it any more and in many people's eyes the problem has gone away.

Quite simply because much of the idealism of the last century has been replaced by hard-nosed pragmatism and issues that are bigger than a small province on the Atlantic seaboard. Much of what we are and do is measured in "growth" and wealth.
Furthermore the further you get from something the less important it really is.

Dave!

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfqlkfcwoj/rss2/

is_that_so

DaveMcG, Good to see that there is more tolerance to the "other side" now.
Hopefuly these events will not need riot police on standby in the future.

is_that_so wrote:

Over time even the parades will end up as "that lot doing their marching again", much as it is a curiosity in Donegal.

A step in the right direction.

LordSutch

I was under the impression that the 'Two tribes' were getting-on a lot better than they were ten or twenty years ago, when Bombs, knee cappings & Murders were a weekly occourance!

Admittedly the two sides seem to be more polarised than ever before, but at least its a peaceful polarisation ..................

We now live in a New & enlightened Ireland, we have all signed up-to the Good friday (Belfast) agreement which states that the North is free to determine its future & if it wishes to remain within the UK ~ or to leave the UK at some time in the future!

This is the agreed position of London, Belfast & Dublin.

Fratton Fred

O'Leprosy wrote:

Britain had no more right to occupy any part of Ireland than the Nazi's Czechsolavkia. A united Ireland will be acheived around 20 years or so due to the nationalist birth rate, it will have nothing to do with 'persuading' the unionists to join a united Ireland. Despite the offical face unionism may put on, many unionists are secretly resigned to the fact that United Ireland will come about in the next 2 or 3 decades. It will have to be economicially united first before political unity takes place, and that is already happening. That's why SF helped to enginneer and sign up to the Good Friday Agreement. Nothing you can do to stop it pal. Indeed, with the Scots moving more and more in the direction of indepedence , the question mark is over the future of the British state ?

other than under British control, when has there ever been a united Ireland?

You imply i would want to stop a united Ireland, why would I? as for the "British State" the sooner that breaks up the better, the English tax payers have been footing the bill for NI, Wales and Scotland for long enough.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote:

other than under British control, when has there ever been a united Ireland?

There were four (or five) seperate kingdoms before british rule, But don't see the relevance of this point!

There will only be a UNITED (as opposed to a single nation called Ireland) when both tribes learn to live with each other.

Some posters here clearly see the "other tribe" as the "opposition", YOU are the people who will make or break a united Ireland

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote:

as for the "British State" the sooner that breaks up the better, the English tax payers have been footing the bill for NI, Wales and Scotland for long enough.

Have to agree with that one!! especially NI
With so many people in NI working for the civil service, the republic would have to find jobs for them all if the region was reassigned to the republic, it could be a bit difiicult to have part of your countries (Britain) civil service in a foreign state.

jjbrien

The thing that I found funny about the whole situation in the north for years. Is when the members of the northern unionist community go away to work abroad suddenly they become Irish again and bond with the nationalists and us people from the south as Irishmen. I think they will get along as when they go away they release how alike they are.

Fratton Fred

jjbrien wrote:

The thing that I found funny about the whole situation in the north for years. Is when the members of the northern unionist community go away to work abroad suddenly they become Irish again and bond with the nationalists and us people from the south as Irishmen. I think they will get along as when they go away they release how alike they are.

I used to drink in a pub in Berkshire which was mainly an Irish pub and they all got on fine, until someone mentioned politics then it would kick off big style, chairs put over heads, riotpolice the full works. Then the next day they would all be in there drinking together again all best of friens (Until later the next time:p ):D

I think the hardest part of "normalisation" is going to be trying to educate people who do this in the errors of their ways.

This sort of "territory marking" just prolongs the divide between the communities.