Who should Christians mix with?

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

It's actually quite easy. As the ones that I have met and known are just nice people to be around. However don't involve me in the sex life.

I also have had friendships with men who enjoy going to watch strippers, they are decent folks, but I wont go watch strippers.

It is easy to love people as people, just don't engage and join them in the sinful aspects of their life.

Is this ok in biblical principal? To have friends who are un-repentant sinners? Its not a loaded question BTW, I'm genuinely asking the question. I know Jesus came to call the sinners, and we are all sinners, but if someone rejects Christ and remains in their sin, should we remain calling ourselves their friend? I have not formed an opinion on this myself, as yet, but I'm just putting it out there.

BrianCalgary

JimiTime wrote:

Is this ok in biblical principal? To have friends who are un-repentant sinners? Its not a loaded question BTW, I'm genuinely asking the question. I know Jesus came to call the sinners, and we are all sinners, but if someone rejects Christ and remains in their sin, should we remain calling ourselves their friend? I have not formed an opinion on this myself, as yet, but I'm just putting it out there.

I look at it as living my life as Christ lived His. He went among the lost and outcast. The only way to communicate Christs love to people that need it, which is all people, is to become friends and demonstrate that love.

There are those in our church who will tell you all about the love of Christ and speaking Him to all people, yet will get on my case for going to the pub where alcohol is present. Yet how else can I speak of Christ to those that don't know Him unless I go to where they are?

In having said that, the casino is not the place for me to go, because I have a bit of a gambling problem, si I flee from it. I don't have a problem with alcohol and can quite comfortably go to a pub.

JimiTime

BrianCalgary wrote:

I look at it as living my life as Christ lived His. He went among the lost and outcast. The only way to communicate Christs love to people that need it, which is all people, is to become friends and demonstrate that love.

There are those in our church who will tell you all about the love of Christ and speaking Him to all people, yet will get on my case for going to the pub where alcohol is present. Yet how else can I speak of Christ to those that don't know Him unless I go to where they are?

In having said that, the casino is not the place for me to go, because I have a bit of a gambling problem, si I flee from it. I don't have a problem with alcohol and can quite comfortably go to a pub.

'where alcahol is present'? Is that a problem? I know the abuse of it is, but its presence?
I do agree in following Jesus' example about being the spiritual 'physician', but I'm not sure if this translates to calling yourself a friend of an unrepentant sinner. What do you reckon? I just try to picture Jesus going to lets say, a roman orgy. He gives the message and they reject it, not aggresively, but say, 'you seem like a nice bloke, but I don't accept what your saying, i want to keep doing this'. Would he call these people friends? The Mary Magdelane incident. 'Go, and sin no more'. we see all is forgiven, and all are worthy of , forgiveness, but only in repentance. Or do you reckon I'm off the mark? Remember, I'm talking about people who reject Christ.

BrianCalgary

Hey Jimmy enjoying this discussion and just felt it should have it's own thread.

JimiTime wrote:

'where alcahol is present'? Is that a problem? I know the abuse of it is, but its presence?.

It could be if th eperson is a recovering alcoholic. It's mere presence could bring on temptation that is unbearable and brings the person back to drinking.

JimiTime wrote:

I do agree in following Jesus' example about being the spiritual 'physician', but I'm not sure if this translates to calling yourself a friend of an unrepentant sinner. What do you reckon? I just try to picture Jesus going to lets say, a roman orgy. He gives the message and they reject it, not aggresively, but say, 'you seem like a nice bloke, but I don't accept what your saying, i want to keep doing this'. Would he call these people friends? The Mary Magdelane incident. 'Go, and sin no more'. we see all is forgiven, and all are worthy of , forgiveness, but only in repentance. Or do you reckon I'm off the mark? Remember, I'm talking about people who reject Christ.

I do think you are off the mark, and I mean that respectfully.

In the case of the Roman orgy, maybe Jesus wouldn't call them friends, but He would still love them and wish them to come to repentance.

With Mary Magdalene Jesus knew she had repented and His instruction to sin no more would make sense.

With my gay friend, if I don't maintain a friendship and treat her with dignity, respect and love I don't see where I am being an example of Christ. If I love here, my desire would be to see her come to Christ, repent and sin no more. But I can only do that and have an influence by gaining her trust and maintaining a friendship.
I can do it and not get involved in her lifestyle.

neuro-praxis

Christians should be everywhere, in every domain, in every discipline, mixing with every kind of person. We're supposed to be salt and light - bringing love, acceptance, help, financial aid, a listening ear, a compassionate heart and all that good sh|t everywhere we go.

There are some places we should avoid, and some relationships, only in so far as you cannot and should not be friends with everyone in the world, but it's not like we can get contaminated...sure we're filled to the brim with sin ourselves anyway. We're only different because we acknowledge the sin and want a little help getting rid of it from the man Himself.

BrianCalgary

So Neuropraxis, where do you draw the line?

As an example, I wont go to strippers, for moral reasons. I won't go to clubs, because they are just not enjoyable.

BrianCalgary

Tim Robbins wrote:

Christians should mix with me. I listen, I am open minded and I am a nice guy.

Very true Tim. I look forward to meeting you one day. We can discuss that table on wikipedia, from the AA forum.

Tim Robbins

BrianCalgary wrote:

So Neuropraxis, where do you draw the line?

As an example, I wont go to strippers, for moral reasons. I won't go to clubs, because they are just not enjoyable.

Christians should mix with me. I listen, I am open minded and I am a nice guy.

Tim Robbins

Tim Robbins wrote:

Christians should mix with me. I listen, I am open minded and I am a nice guy.

Which table?

Michael G

JimiTime wrote:

Is this OK in biblical principal? To have friends who are UN-repentant sinners? Its not a loaded question BTW, I'm genuinely asking the question. I know Jesus came to call the sinners, and we are all sinners, but if someone rejects Christ and remains in their sin, should we remain calling ourselves their friend? I have not formed an opinion on this myself, as yet, but I'm just putting it out there.

We are all sinners, as you say, whether Christians or not. I have many friends, and a few people whom I love, who are unbelievers. It is almost impossible not to have day-to-day contact with unbelievers, some of whom will attack or challenge your beliefs.

I think the answer is to keep regularly in touch with others who share your faith, because that helps to keep your faith strong; but also to keep your unbelieving friends. God has his own plans for everyone, even our regular atheist or agnostic visitors in this forum, and you may be an instrument that he wants to use in some cases. Apart from those who live in an enclosed religious order, we all - whether we want it or not - have a duty to be apostles on our own little scale. Your job is to be open about your own beliefs, to exemplify them in what you say and do, and to defend them in arguments when you can. It may be that you will be the way that God gets through to someone.

By the way, to forestall any accusations, I am not saying that God has plans for all the atheists and agnostics to become believers. He certainly has benign plans for all of us, and he may well have benign plans for them that do not involve conversion. (I know this is an opinion that really annoys some people; I'm not trying to be annoying.)

Splendour

JimiTime wrote:

Is this ok in biblical principal? To have friends who are un-repentant sinners? Its not a loaded question BTW, I'm genuinely asking the question. I know Jesus came to call the sinners, and we are all sinners, but if someone rejects Christ and remains in their sin, should we remain calling ourselves their friend? I have not formed an opinion on this myself, as yet, but I'm just putting it out there.

My tuppence worth is:

A. I can mix only with my Christian friends and have less chance of running the risk of 'falling by the wayside'. This means I never get a chance to tell anyone of the God and the Gospel.

B. I can mix with non Christians and have a higher chance of 'falling by the wayside', but I get a chance to tell more people about God.

As far as I'm concerned we should be doing both.
We mix with Christians for encouragement and fellowship, and strentened by this we are then well equiped to meet with non Christians to carry out Jesus's commandment to 'go and tell all nations the good news'.(paraphrase)

God's laws are written on our hearts and it is up to the individual to pray about wheter or not we should go to pubs etc...

Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

JimiTime

Splendour wrote:

My tuppence worth is:

A. I can mix only with my Christian friends and have less chance of running the risk of 'falling by the wayside'. This means I never get a chance to tell anyone of the God and the Gospel.

B. I can mix with non Christians and have a higher chance of 'falling by the wayside', but I get a chance to tell more people about God.

As far as I'm concerned we should be doing both.
We mix with Christians for encouragement and fellowship, and strentened by this we are then well equiped to meet with non Christians to carry out Jesus's commandment to 'go and tell all nations the good news'.(paraphrase)

God's laws are written on our hearts and it is up to the individual to pray about wheter or not we should go to pubs etc...

Romans 14

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "[a] 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Great scripture. Thanks for bringing it into the light.

neuro-praxis

Brian I hear what you are saying - I also would avoid a strip club (or similar), unless for example, I had a friend who worked there and invited me to meet her colleagues etc. I would never go for my own entertainment.

Jimitime, surely Jesus' example is enough for you? He mixed with prostitutes and the most hated people in his culture at the time. That was part of the reason the Pharisees despised him - he ate with the unclean. And He said to us to love one another as He loves us.

How can you love somebody if you are avoiding them?

Acid_Violet

I'm not an expert on the bible and I'm not trying to stir up trouble but I'm just thinking shouldn't Christians mix with everyone because they don't have the right to judge? (God being the judge of course.)

I just thought that saying some-one's actions are sinful or rejecting Jesus Christ and thus not mixing with them would be somewhat an action of self-righteousness.

Aren't christians meant to be charitable and that even though they disapprove of a homosexuals behaviour because it says in the bible that God doesn't approve of it, they should still show the same love and compassion that they would show to anyone else?

BrianCalgary

Acid_Violet wrote:

I'm not an expert on the bible and I'm not trying to stir up trouble but I'm just thinking shouldn't Christians mix with everyone because they don't have the right to judge? (God being the judge of course.)

I just thought that saying some-one's actions are sinful or rejecting Jesus Christ and thus not mixing with them would be somewhat an action of self-righteousness.

Aren't christians meant to be charitable and that even though they disapprove of a homosexuals behaviour because it says in the bible that God doesn't approve of it, they should still show the same love and compassion that they would show to anyone else?

I agree completely AV.

gerbilgranny

I'm just replying to the original question, and giving my (should be more humble!) opinion.

I personally think Christians should mix with everyone. I am a 'Christian' - in that yes, Jesus and God are without doubt the most important 'things' in my life. In the past couple of years, in my 40's, I've really taken this seriously - through the grace of God, of course. I'm no better than anyone else, but now I know I couldn't go back to the 'wishy-washy' way I lived my life before - I mean, every couple of days remembering to say a prayer, etc.

I'm not that keen on the word 'Christian'. It's difficult for me, as I've been a Christian - for ages. Baptised into the Catholic faith, and taking hold of that in my own right from about the age of 15 (Thank God for the late Larry Hogan, and his school retreats!).

I am very much a 'practising' Catholic, but have been blessed to be a member of an Evangelical Church, too. Most of all, my life changed when I did an Alpha course, and we had the 'small group' thing, where people of all backgrounds became friends to each other.

I've had 'trouble' with the idea that we Christians should love one another...yes, of course we should, but my natural tendency would be to resist any sort of 'exclusivity' or 'cliqueishness'. And certainly, we should be in no doubt that Jesus showed by his life that it's vital to mix with all sorts of people - the one group he got most annoyed with were the 'religious' people.

Now, though, that I've benefited so much from the support and love I've received from other 'Christians', I'm more amenable to the idea that we should love one another. It's important to support each other in our faith, and in our good and bad times. I can finally see how important the concept of 'church' is. It's damn hard to be a Christian on your own! I believe Jesus set up the church because it makes sense for us to lean on each other, and help each other.

But I've no doubt that it's equally important for us to be 'salt' and 'light'. Both practically, and 'spiritually'. Therefore we should be 'out there', mixing with the people who we happen to come into contact with - through our family allegiances, our work, our hobbies, whatever. We, as 'Christians', should be foremost in trying to help other people. And then we will be spreading the gospel.

Yes, some people will make things difficult for us, if they are very hostile to our beliefs, but then we should go to God in prayer and ask for help.

That's what I think now, anyway.

NovemberStar

I felt I should add something to this. I am into the goth scene and have been for years. Now that I have returned to Christianity , I am finding it hard to tell my friends because most of them are Agnostic, Athiest or Pagan.
They are all loevly people but due mostly to the ridiculas behavior of the Catholic church and the persecution of minority groups over the years by Christians, most of them are not fans of Christianity so it has created some awkward situations for me.
I feel I dont fit in with either group really. Most Christians assume anyone into gothic music/style etc must be a Satan worshipper so they see me and assume likewise.

For me its simple, my faith is my faith and my music tastes are my music tastes.

I never preach to anyone but am just trying to avoid certain behaviours I no longer agree with rather than condemn them.
My friends are still my friends. I just dont bring religion into it.

NovemberStar

nesf

A person should (imho) be able to have fundamental issues with Christianity but not automatically hold them against an individual Christian. Live and let live and all that.

Spyral

I think the answer is to keep regularly in touch with others who share your faith, because that helps to keep your faith strong; but also to keep your unbelieving friends.

that's harder and harder to do though. I mean im my parish there are about 5 people around my age who go to Mass it kinda sucks

I have unbelieving friends and gay friends and I think its important not to judge people as that is not our prerogative, only Gods. We should treat people as human regardless.
That said I am in favour of tactful 'brotherly admonishment'

NovemberStar wrote:

I felt I should add something to this. I am into the goth scene and have been for years. Now that I have returned to Christianity , I am finding it hard to tell my friends because most of them are Agnostic, Athiest or Pagan.

you shouldnt worry about telling your firends, just tell them that you've found God agin (he was under the sofa all along :P) and if they are your friends then they will accept you for what you are. Im not a goth but I have firneds who are and underneath the 'look' I find that many of them are quite accepting and non judgemental.

They are all loevly people but due mostly to the ridiculas behavior of the Catholic church and the persecution of minority groups over the years by Christians, most of them are not fans of Christianity so it has created some awkward situations for me.

Just remember that the actions of individuals does not mean that it is the will of the church. I can blow myself up for jesus or the church or whatever but it wont make it true.

I feel I dont fit in with either group really. Most Christians assume anyone into gothic music/style etc must be a Satan worshipper so they see me and assume likewise.

Er... Opeth is my favouite band but people who know me know Im not a Satanist. Additionally any Christian who does assume that is judging you which as Chrisitans they should not be doing.

For me its simple, my faith is my faith and my music tastes are my music tastes.

AMEN !