Lazy or Academically Weak

Lucas10101

I'm sure this argument has been tossed up every now and again but I think it should be revisited for the Classes of 2007:

(i) Are people Lazy not to bother working for exams at all, in that it's something they could prevent.
(ii) Are they born academically weak and thus appear lazy and not bothered.

Of course the Nature/Nurture argument pops us and does the Environment play a big factor for the Academically Weak or it may turn their heads to work?
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I think people are lazy and are dependent upon the environment there put in. I don't believe in Academically weak people, academically weak people could "try" to improve their standards to their academic limit, after all people can be born with ultra-high IQ's (165+). Maybe in 1% of the population, their limit is very low but for the vast majority it would remain the same thus proving their lazy, although subject to argument.

Opinions?

OctavarIan

IMO it's a bit of both.

/thread

Seriously though, for the academic side of things I would think that everyone is pretty much born with the same blank slate so to speak, and their environment growing up is what determines their academic capacity. Some people exhibit a natural flair or particular talent on the non-academic side of things and this is nurtured and encouraged in detriment to their academic side. Some people can read a book and retain most of the information, others will have to read it 2-3 times to retain the same amount. Some people are mathematically minded, while others struggle. I don't think it comes down to laziness at all.

theliam

id say that different people are born with different capacities for different things. i dont think you can say its solely based on environment. different people are naturally good at sports, art, music etc.. i did music classes when i was very young but despite this i am tone deaf, hopeless at singing and havent got a clue about anything else musical. the same applies for academic ability IMO. everyone starts maths and languages at the same time in school yet there are varying degrees of success between different people.

electrode

I think that although environment plays a major role, you are certainly born with certain talents be they academic or otherwise...For example you could see huge academic differences between siblings-who obviously share the same environment!?

But it always seemed to me that, in general, those stronger academically were the lazier of the bunch. The weaker ones worked harder for their marks!?

estebancambias

The phrase 'naturally talented' are the two worst words that have been put together in the history of mankind.

Footballers become good footballers because football becomes the sole focus of their life, no distractions like tv or computer games, it has nothing to do with natural talent.

In my opinion some people are determined, others are not. The determined people will strive in the classroom where the lazy person will struggle.

Nobody is made dumber or smarter!!!

Karlusss

estebancambias wrote:

The phrase 'naturally talented' are the two worst words that have been put together in the history of mankind.

Nah dude, God clearly preordains everyone's strengths and weaknesses before they're born. People who weren't born able to get about 500 in the Leaving shouldn't have to do it at all.

(jk of course, I agree with you completely).

electrode

estebancambias wrote:

Footballers become good footballers because football becomes the sole focus of their life, no distractions like tv or computer games, it has nothing to do with natural talent.

so we all have the potential at birth to be as good as Ronaldihno, Zidane, Pele etc...

I think not.

Einstein had natural mathematical talent...There are many examples of natural talant visible in many others in many different fields. People who can reach heights other, completely dedicated, people simply could not reach. Some people are just born with abilities beyond those of the average Joe Soap.

JC 2K3

A mixture of laziness and not knowing how to study properly.

JC 2K3

electrode wrote:

so we all have the potential at birth to be as good as Ronaldihno, Zidane, Pele etc...

I think not

Emm... yes we do...

All of them got where they are now due to practice, not some magical thing they were born with.

electrode wrote:

Einstein had natural mathematical talent...There are manyexamples of natural talant visible in many others in many different fields. People who heights other utterly dedicated people simply could not reach. Some people are just born with abilities beyond those of the average Joe Soap.

Anyone could reach any height if they A) wanted to and B)were lucky enough in their lives to have encountered inspirational experiences.

It's a silly example, but take Isaac Newton for example. He was a dedicated physicist, along with many other dedicated physicists of his time. Had he not sat under that tree that day, he might not have received the random inspiration he needed and another physicist would have discovered gravity. He wasn't born with natural mathematical/reasoning ability, he just got lucky and was able to apply the scientific skills he and many others had at the time, to this random inspiration he received.

flonge

I think that different people are born with different capacities for different things!i think that people can be born with a flair for a certain subject!But just because your not born with a talent for a specific subject does not mean that you can't be good at it.
A person in my year was weak at honours french,but this person kept at it nd was determinded to work at it.She put loads of time and work into it and it paid off.It became one of her strongest subjects!
Alot can be said for determination and hard work. I think a lot of people especially Leaving Cert students,have no faith in their abilities.They don't believe in themselves that they can actually do it.They find certain subjects hard and just give up at the first hurdle,and as a result they become lazy and don't bother putting in any work.I think alot of the time if they really put their minds to it theyd be great at it.

electrode

JC 2K3 wrote:

Emm... yes we do...

All of them got where they are now due to practice, not some magical thing they were born with..

Both physical make-up and mental abilities have an impact on what we can achieve. A person who's "slow"(possibly the wrong word?) will never have the split second reactions of the top footballers. They are born with this ability...Granted practice will bring you a long way but everyone has their limits. Average players, such as those in the lower leagues of european football train just as hard and as long as George Best ever did but his natural talent is what he will be remembered for.

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I think it is unreasonable to assume everyone has the same mathematical/reasoning abilities as Isaac Newton at birth. Look at all the people who cant handle leaving cart trigonometry, which is a far cry from what was going through Isaac's head that day(mathematically)..Not everyone would have seen the significance of the apple falling and that is what sets people like him apart. Because im sure many other physicists saw other things falling before but it just didn't click with them.

cson

Bit of ability needed but all you need to do is to look at the background of the best sports stars in the world to see where hard work gets you. How many of them came from well off backgrounds?

On topic, either/or imo.

OctavarIan

electrode wrote:

I think that although environment plays a major role, you are certainly born with certain talents be they academic or otherwise...For example you could see huge academic differences between siblings-who obviously share the same environment!?

You find me two siblings who went through the same experiences growing up, and who were treated the exact same You're not born with any special talents, they appear through experiences and nurturing while growing up.

JC 2K3 wrote:

A mixture of laziness and not knowing how to study properly.

I knew that was going to pop up sooner or later. Why'd you even post that? Your second post was better constructed and made better points.

JC 2K3 wrote:

All of them got where they are now due to practice, not some magical thing they were born with.

I agree with this to a certain extent. While practice helps, some people manage to pick up a little special something while growing up that takes them further. I'm thinking of music too as I write this.

JC 2K3 wrote:

Anyone could reach any height if they A) wanted to and B)were lucky enough in their lives to have encountered inspirational experiences

Academically speaking, this wouldn't be true for everybody. For the majority maybe if you add a (C) they had the time and resources to dedicate themselves fully

[edit]Fixed a typo :x

estebancambias

I like where this topic is heading.

Yes good point about the backgrounds, for the Brazil national team only daniel Carvalho, Kaka and Rodrigo Ceni are from upper class backgrounds.

People might be born with better physical attributes, for example have a bigger heart(Lance Armstrong) but let says Riquelme he is a very slow individual but has practised to become a passing genius.

electrode

OctavarIan wrote:

You find me two siblings who went through the same experiences growing up, and who were treated the exact same You're not born with any special talents, they appear through experiences and nurturing while growing up.

I didn't say "went through the same experiences growing up, and who were treated the exact same"..Just that they had the same environment.I know not all siblings are treated exactly the same. I'm just saying that each individual has some attributes which the other does not and as the upbringing would be roughly the same...I can only think that it is gentic differences they have from birth which would lead to any dramatic variations in skill/ability in a particular field...

randylonghorn

I think people are born with a certain level of potential in different areas, and they can be limited to a certain extent by this (for example, no amount of hard work will ever make a tone-deaf non-singer like myself into a Caruso) ... but most of us have at least some potential in most areas.

I find [URL="/http://www.thomasarmstrong.com/multiple_intelligences.htm"]Multiple Intelligences theory[/URL] quite a useful framework for looking at this issue.

That said, I would definitely agree that a supportive environment and positive affirmation on the one hand, and hard work and determination on the other, can make a huge difference to how well someone maximises that capacity or potential.

Attractive Nun

JC 2K3 wrote:

Emm... yes we do...

All of them got where they are now due to practice, not some magical thing they were born with.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

[obligatory caveat]Yes, I do believe that a person's willingness to work hard is a hugely important factor in what they can achieve, and in the case of the leaving cert probably the most important factor[/obligatory caveat]

To say, however, that people aren't born with certain traits that allow them to be better in certain areas than others, that any two people - given the same environment and motivation - could achieve exactly the same thing in any area, is tripe. The entire existence of life on earth, through evolution, is based on the fact that some organisms have 'better' genes than others. If everyone was, potentially (i.e genetically) the same, then our place on earth just wouldn't make any sense. People have different coloured eyes and hair, people have different metabolisms, some people's organs work better than others - surely that's self-evident. Professional rowers often have a greater lung capacity than normal people. Einstein had a differently proportioned brain than normal people. If you think Maradona, while coked off his head for a couple of years, was better than everyone else because he worked the hardest - then you're just wrong.

nedward

It's work and luck-look at Djimi Traore. Was he born with any natural skill?

It's just a matter of skills. I read somewhere that there are about eight skillsets, like sporting, academic, empathy etc. Some have more than one skillset, while others have one very good skillset coupled with motivation, which enables them to reach the top of their chosen profession.

ZorbaTehZ

JC 2K3 wrote:

Anyone could reach any height if they A) wanted to and B)were lucky enough in their lives to have encountered inspirational experiences.

Please tell me you don't actually believe that? Theres being an idealist, and then theres being completely insane ...

Nehpets

JC 2K3 wrote:

A mixture of laziness and not knowing how to study properly.

I agree.

Laziness -> Also not inspired. i.e. if you don't need the points, why bother? And why would you unless you were going for a grant or wanted the option to change courses.

Not knowing how to study -> Someone studies loads, fails, confidence etc destoryed -> don't bother next time... leads to laziness.

mateo

Well for me it's generally laziness.

But when it comes to Maths I'm just weak

flonge

Nehpets wrote:

I agree.

Laziness -> Also not inspired. i.e. if you don't need the points, why bother? And why would you unless you were going for a grant or wanted the option to change courses.

Not knowing how to study -> Someone studies loads, fails, confidence etc destoryed -> don't bother next time... leads to laziness.

I agree with what nehpets said.
If you do not feel inspired,you feel that you have no reason to work towards anything.

fionated7

pure laziness with me and i was so annoyed with myself for it when my exams finished. everyone else was all delighted, i was sickened id thrown it away due to laziness and lack of motivation

Naikon

flonge wrote:

I agree with what nehpets said.
If you do not feel inspired,you feel that you have no reason to work towards anything.

My situation in a nutshell:o

ethernet

JC 2K3 wrote:

A mixture of laziness and not knowing how to study properly.

More like a mixture of personal circumstances and what [if anything] is motivating you.

Naikon

Yeah I agree.
It isnt easy doing the exams if somebody in your immediate family died for example.
The SEC solution?, SIT THE EXAMS!!!

AdMMM

Emm... yes we do...

All of them got where they are now due to practice, not some magical thing they were born with.

That's one of the most naive sentences that I have ever read on Boards! I'm certain that almost every single professional athlete trains as hard and is as dedicated as the next yet despite the intensive training and total dedication they apply to their sport, they may never be able to climb the ranks and be as fast/powerful/successful as their rivals purely because of their natural ability i.e their genes.

I do however accept that practice does help. A vaguely relevant example would be between myself and my friend. I was always faster than him at sprinting and last year he joined an athletics club and gradually became faster through training. I joined the same athletics club 6 months after him and despite him training 3 times a week compared to my 1, I'm once again faster than him.

It's nature over nurture, but of course people need the appropriate nurturing to tap into their full potential.

JC 2K3

|.Murderer.| wrote:

That's one of the most naive sentences that I have ever read on Boards! I'm certain that almost every single professional athlete trains as hard and is as dedicated as the next yet despite the intensive training and total dedication they apply to their sport, they may never be able to climb the ranks and be as fast/powerful/successful as their rivals purely because of their natural ability i.e their genes.

I do however accept that practice does help. A vaguely relevant example would be between myself and my friend. I was always faster than him at sprinting and last year he joined an athletics club and gradually became faster through training. I joined the same athletics club 6 months after him and despite him training 3 times a week compared to my 1, I'm once again faster than him.

It's nature over nurture, but of course people need the appropriate nurturing to tap into their full potential.

And your basis for all these assumptions is....?

JC 2K3

ethernet wrote:

More like a mixture of personal circumstances and what [if anything] is motivating you.

Not being able to work without motivation = laziness.

OctavarIan

JC 2K3 wrote:

Not being able to work without motivation = laziness.

olol, seriously

ZorbaTehZ