Doing Law purely for the money???

funkrooney

Is there anyone out there that did the Fe1's etc purley for the money, eg: No interest in law or the constitution or politics etc but saw it as a good career and a place to make good money??

Just curious as am thinking about it as a career, but have no real interest in it, I would really like to hear from people that had no interest but did it anyway and how it panned out for them,

Thanks a million,

johnnyskeleton

funkrooney wrote:

Is there anyone out there that did the Fe1's etc purley for the money

Probably. But if you're not interested in it, there is a very good chance that you'll be no good at it. It's not easy money and you'll have to put in long hours etc.

You don't have to be interested in the constitution or politics, the main areas of law that you could work in are largely about dealing with money, dealing with people or dealing with tricky legislation. No one would care about your views on the right to freedom of speech if all they want you to do is draft a will, and the constitution rarely gets noticed down the old commercial courts. As for politics, it's all about who you know, isn't it?

funkrooney

Cheers Johnny,

Well I have been told that I have an excellent way with people etc and have previously been heavily involved in sales and marketing at a senior level. I am just at a crossroads about the fe1's etc and the level of difficulty with them?

I do enjoy debating a point and looking at it from a number of angles, will this be of any use to me??

Would I be right in saying that these are the hardest part of it and that blackhall is, in relative terms, not as difficult??

mikemac

Have you considered being a barrister and not a solictor?

Reason I say this is if you are good at debating and you obviously have presentation skills if you were in sales & marketing.

Yes, a solicitor needs the same skills also but it's just the first thing that struck me from your post.

I just wondering why you are choosing the solicitor route

dats_right

OP, if your primary motivation is money then I would reconsider law as my career, okay there is no doubting that law is a reasonably well renumerated profession, but I do think people, at times, overestimate the earnings of lawyers. I mean law is more or less on a par with most other similar professions and even jobs in HR or Sales are often better paid. Certainly if money was my only motivation, I would have pursued areas like; investment banking, stockbroking, corporate banking, consultancy, management or some other such role where the shekels can be astronomical.

If you choose law and don't make partner at a top 5 firm you wil, in the long run, be disappointed with your earnings. And if you are serious that you are purely in it for the money, why don't you consider doing the new post-grad entry into medicine? Consultants in this country have the luxury of turning their noses up at a contract that would pay them €205k a year. Just imagine what they must be earning to be able to refuse that kind of a deal..

Also if you really want to earn big bucks as a lawyer then you should need to get over to one of the Magic Circle firms in London or indeed any of the top firms or New York too. These are the places were the real money is. Those lads wouldn't tie their shoe laces for the money paid in Dublin..

funkrooney

Some brilliant advice her lads, I think you guys could be right. If you dont mind me asking what sort of money do solicitors etc make? A fully qualified solicitor with a decent firm but not the top 5 in Dublin, thanks a million,

The motivating factors also relate to self esteem things, I often meet guys that are solicitors etc and think **** me I could do that,

The barrister thing was suggested to me, but after speaking to a barrister friend of the family, a very highly regarded one, he suggested that the work is not there the way it used to be, and that there are a lot of people doing it that are merely eeking out an existence,

Any more information on being a solicitor is really really appreciated, thanks a million,

dumbyearbook

dats_right wrote:

And if you are serious that you are purely in it for the money, why don't you consider doing the new post-grad entry into medicine? Consultants in this country have the luxury of turning their noses up at a contract that would pay them €205k a year. Just imagine what they must be earning to be able to refuse that kind of a deal..

Are you for real??:D no offence but the grad entry to med will be filled with students who got As in Science in Leaving cert and did Science/Nursing etc and did really well people with jobs in Marketing or sales would be laughed out of the applications office!

PS OP im sitting Fe1s in 2008 going to do the prep course in Griffith from Novemeber to April I'm in a similar job to you and im not challenenged I know what you mean by the ' i could do that ' feeling too!!

mountainyman

Funds partner in top firm half a million a year
1st year associate in good firm 50,000
One man band small office 10 years in business 200,000

The only people who do not eventually make alot of money are people who for some reason remain associates at fairly small firms.

Every barrister who has been practising for 20 years makes more than 150K

MM

ladylorenzo

funkrooney wrote:

Is there anyone out there that did the Fe1's etc purley for the money, eg: No interest in law or the constitution or politics etc but saw it as a good career and a place to make good money??

Just curious as am thinking about it as a career, but have no real interest in it, I would really like to hear from people that had no interest but did it anyway and how it panned out for them,

Thanks a million,

TBH Funkrooney, the whole point of the FE1's is to admit people to the law soc who have achieved a certain acedemic standard, (that which is much higher than LLB standard) but also,. to weed out those who are genuinely not interested in law. They are tough exams and you need to be pretty interested in what you're studying. If you admittedly dont have an interest in law, then you may find it difficult to get motivated for the exams.I personally found the exams to be the most soul destroying experience i've ever has to endure(no joke) but it was my interest in the subjects and my determination to finish what I started many years ago, that kept me going.
Just be prepared for the hard slog that is involved!! Good Luck! LL

funkrooney

dumbyearbook wrote:

Are you for real??:D no offence but the grad entry to med will be filled with students who got As in Science in Leaving cert and did Science/Nursing etc and did really well people with jobs in Marketing or sales would be laughed out of the applications office!

PS OP im sitting Fe1s in 2008 going to do the prep course in Griffith from Novemeber to April I'm in a similar job to you and im not challenenged I know what you mean by the ' i could do that ' feeling too!!

Hey dumbyearbook, be very very careful, I would suggest going to a few lectures now, they dont check for id or anything and getting a feel for it and the coursework.......
I did and it was a big shock to the system I must admit,

Hey LadyLorenzo,

Is it really that bad, do you have an interest in the stuff, eg: if there was something on the telly about it would you be interested etc in it??

To be honest I would have no interest in it, I may have an interest in what path in life, where it went wrong, and why they entered a life of crime, for the defendant in a crime case, thats about it!!

Thanks for the advice

ladylorenzo

funkrooney wrote:

Hey dumbyearbook, be very very careful, I would suggest going to a few lectures now, they dont check for id or anything and getting a feel for it and the coursework.......
I did and it was a big shock to the system I must admit,

Hey LadyLorenzo,

Is it really that bad, do you have an interest in the stuff, eg: if there was something on the telly about it would you be interested etc in it??

To be honest I would have no interest in it, I may have an interest in what path in life, where it went wrong, and why they entered a life of crime, for the defendant in a crime case, thats about it!!

Thanks for the advice

Honestly??...Yeah..i do!! Not every aspect of the law obviously but for the most part, I am interested in it. Personally, i see it as a form of maths,..you are given a propblem, you consult your different theories, find which is most applicable, apply it to the problem and (hopefully!!), resolve it.
everyone is different and go into careers for different reasons. There is nothing unusual about choosing a career path because it may be fiscally advantageous but how many people do you know earn good money but dont have the time or the energy to enjoy it??Whether it be because they are thoroughly unhappy in their job they do or because their job is their life.
In relation to the level of difficulty of the FE1's...you will find the odd brainbox who claims that they're not as difficult as people make them out to be but the majority of people who have sat these exams will agree that they are really tough. It's not just the amount of information that you have to know but you have to be prepared to just give up having a life for the year or two (sometimes 3!) that you are sitting them.
But they're not impossible and if you are willing to put in the work, its worth it. Believe me, getting my BA & LLB was nowhere near as satisfying as getting the FE1's. But as I said, you have to really want them in order to follow through and get them.They're not for the faint hearted!!!(or those who like their sleep, social life, love life, family life......!!!!) LL

Amazotheamazing

Oh the FE's are not that tough, stop trying to scare him, what's tough is being bothered to study for them becuase you're not in a class with your mates like at college.

ladylorenzo

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Oh the FE's are not that tough, stop trying to scare him, what's tough is being bothered to study for them becuase you're not in a class with your mates like at college.

Sorry funkrooney, not trying to scare you out of doing them.As i said, they're not impossible and you will get them if you put the work in. I suppose i'm just giving an insight into my experience with them and dishing out advice that i wish someone had given me before i embarked on the Blackhall journey!!!

funkrooney

Ha ha ha thanks guys,

I dunno what I should do now, I dont think I have the right motivation for doing them though, purely a money thing......

Or I may just be cacking it and scared of failing them too,

But can someone answer me this, do they have a genuine interest in law etc, OR did they do them for the money and status?? I really want to hear that they did them for the money ya know

Also am I right in saying that this is the worst part and the blackhall stuff is not as difficult??

2rs

I suppose money is a motivation for me entering the legal profession. It is a long term plan though, the money will not come pouring in as soon as you have your qualification unless you are very lucky.

For me though, I am taking the barrister route this summer, as self employment ultimately appeals to me. From your perspective, with the marketing/sales experience there may be some niche areas in corporation law that you could target, some big bucks to be made there.

There is more money and more opportunity when you have something else coupled with your legal qualification. I come from a telecoms background so show me the money.........eventually

dumbyearbook

funkrooney wrote:

Hey dumbyearbook, be very very careful, I would suggest going to a few lectures now, they dont check for id or anything and getting a feel for it and the coursework.......
I did and it was a big shock to the system I must admit,

Hey thanks for the advice - i actually will be attending some of the lectures before i sign up, ive done Comapany and Trade Law already from B.Comm so im used to the mindset required at Undergrad level anyway!

(PS: I was all set to do a 2yr LLB in UL from Sep but it would be a waste at this stage ive a masters aswell as the bcomm the guy in Griffith said the prep cpurse would be right up my street-anyone got any opinions on this decsion? they are most welcome to share. Could nt help feel there was a 'sales' approach to the question evening in Griffith.........)

newestUser

Apologies for dragging this off-topic, but I recently met someone who was doing a grad-entry med course, and up until that he had studied maths in college and had worked writing software for trading exchanges.

I'm not au fait with the entry requirements/procedures for grad med courses, but there are certainly people doing them who don't have a strong science/medical background.

dumbyearbook wrote:

Are you for real??:D no offence but the grad entry to med will be filled with students who got As in Science in Leaving cert and did Science/Nursing etc and did really well people with jobs in Marketing or sales would be laughed out of the applications office!

PS OP im sitting Fe1s in 2008 going to do the prep course in Griffith from Novemeber to April I'm in a similar job to you and im not challenenged I know what you mean by the ' i could do that ' feeling too!!

dumbyearbook

newestUser wrote:

Apologies for dragging this off-topic, but I recently met someone who was doing a grad-entry med course, and up until that he had studied maths in college and had worked writing software for trading exchanges.

I'm not au fait with the entry requirements/procedures for grad med courses, but there are certainly people doing them who don't have a strong science/medical background.

Where were they doing it? Interesting though

In Ireland it will prob just be people who studied Biology Chemistry etc. the grad med courses should not be for ppl who are doing marketing or maths for that matter (to a lesser extent math maybe) such a silly idea would you actually want a brand manager or fund account becoming an intern? ffs!!:) Not that it would ever happen

DublinWriter

micmclo wrote:

Have you considered being a barrister and not a solictor?

That would be an even worse option for the OP.

Many years ago I was thinking about going down this route myself and I asked for advice from a fairly senior garda friend of mine who had just completed his BL.

His advice was not to do it unless 'you really love the law'. It really takes a lot of effort to do the BL and you'll probably be sitting on your behind in the Law Library making no money for the first 10 years of your career.

mountainyman

DublinWriter wrote:

His advice was not to do it unless 'you really love the law'. It really takes a lot of effort to do the BL and you'll probably be sitting on your behind in the Law Library making no money for the first 10 years of your career.

Yeah but after 20 years they all make over a hundred grand a year.

MM

johnnyskeleton

mountainyman wrote:

Yeah but after 20 years they all make over a hundred grand a year.

MM

Not necessarily, see p.28 of the competition authority's report. I think there would be a small amount earning less, and I'm sure there are a good few Uncle Tom types just pottering around at the end of their careers.

But even if they do, does it make up for 19 years of possibly earning pittance for working long hours? If you have racked up 19 years of debt from earning less than your keep, it might take you another 19 years to recoup it. It is not guranteed and it is quite likely that those who are not earning that much simply leave the library. Also, 100k isn't really that much by today's standards - you'd expect that after 20 years in a lot of jobs. I think the main motivating factor for barristers is not the money, but rather that they wouldn't want to do anything else.

mr.twist

eh just something i have noticed -but nowadays doing the FE-1s is not the hard part- getting a training contract is!!!! i dont mean to be a 'downer' here but the competition for places is now fierce and is dangerously coming close to saturation point! i am about to start looking for my training contract and the stories i have heard and witnessed through friends is not pleasant to say the least-

i am ready to a major esteem hit over the coming months and will be planning on pushing every contact i have- so to mr. ****rooney - check to see what kind of contacts u have in the profession and start gaining experience NOW1

funkrooney

Thanks again guys,

I have had a good think about it and decided to give them a go, I talked to my dad who has a professional qualification and he told me the horror stories of when he started his. Its very tough but thats what its meant to be,

To be fair I went down this road to try better my career and give it a good go, no point in looking back in ten years saying **** I should of given it a decent go........ And I reckon I could develop an interest in it,

Are there many career opportunities for solicitors that do not want to be involved in practice, has anyone gone down this route??

johnnyskeleton

funkrooney wrote:

Are there many career opportunities for solicitors that do not want to be involved in practice, has anyone gone down this route??

You could work for a bank doing quasi legal work, join the civil service, invest in property (which I think is a big one for solicitors) etc...

You need to have a training contract to become a solicitor, which can range from minimum wage to 30k or thereabouts (sometimes more), some firms will pay this while you do the course, others only while you work for them, but you're talking about a situation where:

a) in the best scenario you get a training contract with a big firm (unlikely unless you have a very good law degree or some other point that stands out) get your exams first go, and it will take you about 2.5 years at a reasonable wage to become a qualified solicitor, the course being paid for by the firm.

b) in the worst scenario, you might have to spend a few years sitting the exams because they are quite tough and if you fail one you have to wait 6 months to resit it and you might get a minimum wage contract that doesn't pay you during the PPC1 course and you'll have to pay this yourself. so here it could take 3-5 years during which time you'll be making less than the minimum wage but you'll also be have to pay your fees.

My point is not meant to discourage you, but it would seem to me to be a poor use of your time fully qualifying as a solicitor without intending to practise. A fair few people get a barrister qualification without intending to practise (gardai, architects, doctors, accountants etc), but if you don't have a law degree you would have to do one or else the Kings Inns diploma in law first.

What I would discourage are any ideas that one can whimsically drop into the legal profession and make a lot of money quite easily. I'm not saying that this is your attitude, but it is a common attitude, often accompanied by the idea that buying property is guaranteed profit with no risk.

funkrooney

Thanks a million Johnny,

Your posts on here have been very very helpful I must admit!!

newestUser

This was a guy who was doing the course in an Irish college.

In fairness, you wouldn't be letting a brand manager or fund accountant be an intern, you'd be letting them study a medicine course. After they have completed the medicine course, then why not?

I'll stop now because this isn't relevant to the thread, and I'm not knowledgeable about grad-entry medicine.

dumbyearbook wrote:

Where were they doing it? Interesting though

In Ireland it will prob just be people who studied Biology Chemistry etc. the grad med courses should not be for ppl who are doing marketing or maths for that matter (to a lesser extent math maybe) such a silly idea would you actually want a brand manager or fund account becoming an intern? ffs!!:) Not that it would ever happen

dumbyearbook

newestUser wrote:

I'm not knowledgeable about grad-entry medicine.

You're right there anyway- they are goin to be 2 year courses not full med courses they are more conversion so your ideas about finance people doing them are completely unfeasible!

CantGetNoSleep

no they are not they will take any type of degree, the only reason for them being shorter is that the student is more mature and suited to studying for a college degree

dumbyearbook

Ya lads any graduate from the Arts or whatever will be able to do these courses, your daft wait and see i'd hate to say i told ye so but I will.

newestUser

dumbyearbook wrote:

You're right there anyway- they are goin to be 2 year courses not full med courses they are more conversion so your ideas about finance people doing them are completely unfeasible!

Argh, I know I said I was staying out of this thread, but I have to respond to this.

At present, there are two graduate-entry med courses in Ireland, run by RCSI and UCD. I'm not counting graduate entry into courses run by Trinity or any other institutions (Trinity has accepted a small number of non-medicine graduates onto it's medicine course who didn't meet the CAO requirements for a while now).

The courses offered by UCD and RCSI are both 4 years in duration.

See here

http://www.rcsi.ie/index.jsp?1nID=93&2nID=94&3nID=108&4nID=108&5nID=108&pID=214&nID=247

and here

http://www.healthhub.ie/index.cfm/loc/2-1/articleId/7B3C67AA-62F5-4725-87D8AFDE576ACF16.htm

Both colleges stress their desire to broaden the range of backgrounds from which medical students are picked.

From the UCD news website:

http://www.ucd.ie/news/sept05/medicine.htm

We have made this decision for strategic and educational reasons. We need to educate and train more doctors, and we need to encourage diversity by creating more entry pathways to our medical schools. (Prof Bill Powderly, head of school of medicine)

From the same page:

The UCD School of Medicine will accept applications from students who have achieved at least a upper second class honours grade in an honours bachelor degree (NQAI level 8) 2.1 or higher honours. Applicants will not have to have a science-based primary degree, so that students with primary degrees in humanities, social sciences and other areas may enter medicine through this new route.

This doesn't seem to exclude people from a financial background.

From the RCSI website:

EU graduate applicants will be selected for admission to the Graduate Entry Programme on the basis of open competition using three criteria;

1. Competitive GAMSAT results

2. Basic Eligibility (academic degree)

3. Confidential references and life experiences (work life balance, extra curricular activities, relevant work/ voluntary experience etc.)

Candidates will be scored on sections 1, 2 and 3.

85% of weighting will apply to section 1

15% of weighting will apply to section 2 and 3 combined

The RCSI page states that the GAMSAT aptitude test is weighted as being worth 85% of an applicants assessment. If that's true, it's quite possible that someone could, for instance, have a totally irrelevant primary degree and work experience, but could be accepted onto a medical program on the back of stellar GAMSAT results, and relevant voluntary/life/extra-curricular experiences.

So in sum:

My "ideas" about finance people doing these grad medical courses are not *completely* infeasible. I don't know enough about the entry process to know whether people from a financial background would be excluded/ have great difficulty getting into one of these courses. All I know is that I've met someone who did Maths as an undergrad, worked as a software engineer in the financial services industry, who is now studying on a grad-entry medicine course. This proves that it's not impossible to study medicine as a grad student coming from such a background (though I can't say how hard it would be to get a place on a course).

I might not be 100% knowledgeable about graduate medicine, but in fairness, it's clear that neither are you.

Apologies for dragging the thread waaaaaaaaaaaaay off course.

ladylorenzo

Eh mod??Off topic...charter...ya da ya da???

dumbyearbook

fair enough newest user!

i thought they were 2 year courses -4 years is long enough (tbh i had nt even looked it up so i should nt have bothered commenting at all, i was spoofing abit but i never said i was an expert mearly that i would have thought form a practical viewpoint that science grads were best suited to the course which ill stand by (PS id still prefer if it was Nursing and Science grads on the grad med courses.....but that just an opinion ! you'd appear to think that software engineers are as deserved of a place but now that i know they will at least do 4 years it is slightly more feasible at anyrate)

dumbyearbook

PS newest user well done on all that cutting and pasting would a link not have been sufficient?

funkrooney

Get this **** out of my thread you egomaniacs.........

I'm right, no I'm right,

SHUT UP!!!!!!

It has nothing to do with the thread I posted, NOTHING!!!!

Twats,

dumbyearbook

funkrooney wrote:

Get this **** out of my thread you egomaniacs.........

I'm right, no I'm right,

SHUT UP!!!!!!

It has nothing to do with the thread I posted, NOTHING!!!!

Twats,

Off topic yes; but the insults from you are bang out of order who do you think you are?