Club Recommendations

Colm_OReilly

Hi all,

I wanted to address the issue of people recommending clubs to new posters on boards interested in martial arts.

Now we're all passionate about what we do and believe everyone should get involved and experience what we have. If we're a coach there's obvious reasons why you want more students. If you're a student/athlete, you're excited about your club and want to tell everyone who'll listen.

But, I want this board to be informative for first timers, and to help them reach an informed decision. Therefore, I'm imposing some rules about recommendations of clubs.

If someone asks about learning "any martial art" you need to provide them details of what your club offeres. Simply saying "hey, my club rocks" is not enough. Tell them what to expect in terms of duration, intensity, syllabus, structure, size, teacher/coach etc. Provide links to your clubs website or youtube videos of it in action.

Preferable to this is to ask them specifically what they are looking for. Is it a hobby? Do they like competition? Are they interested in the art or fighting? etc.

If someone comes along and asks "hey, I heard about x, is it any good? Where can I learn it?" you may question what they're looking for an offer counter points to it. However, posts along the lines of "hey, x is cr@p, do y (my style)" will be deleted.

There's also no harm in telling the new poster why they wouldn't like your club. This might sound crazy but honesty is the best policy in the long run.

This isn't a complete list yet, but I think it gets across the ethos of what I'm trying to achieve.

Colm The Mod

kravist

Will general comments criticising standards of particular systems in this country be deleted?

Colm_OReilly

kravist wrote:

Will general comments criticising standards of particular systems in this country be deleted?

Good question kravist,
What I would say is that if opinions are sought by the opening poster then people have a right to express that opinion. What I would ask is for those expressing opinions on any style to give their experience in martial arts to the poster and direct experience in that style.

For example, I'm a BB in Kenpo, so by rights I should be entitled to give an opinion on that. Also, in my role as a coach, I've had the opportunity to train and spar with individuals from other arts, so I believe I should be entitled to give an opinion on how those individuals have faired in sparring, etc.

Of course, in addition to this there are also punters who watch martial arts, much as there are punters who watch other sports. Take a soccer panel, for example: they can say that a certain team lacks aggressive pace or passing skills, or that they're lacking a good free kick taker. This is an observed flaw in a team's game. One, as an individual punter of martial arts and fighting, can point out their perceived flaws of a school or system.

So what's good and what's bad? For example:
"I find Spartan MMA poorly structured and too intense. They weren't friendly and I felt it wasn't technique based." etc etc. That's okay, specific flaws with the school.

"Spartan MMA was sh!te" is not.

Thoughts/Opinions?
Colm

Khannie

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Thoughts/Opinions?

Overall I think it's a good idea, but....

I'm gonna use an example here: My own (limited understanding) view is this: If you want to do something for self defence on the street, your best bet (per hour of training) is probably MMA, or BJJ, Judo or MT or maybe boxing or some combination of the above. Still though, you have people coming on here making all sorts of claims about their art being the best for self defence etc. where most of us can see the shortfalls in a lot of TMA's for practical street based self defence purposes.

So let me ask you this: A punter comes on looking for advice on which art to do for self defence, what are you gonna allow / not allow then? Is it a free for all? Can I say (purely example here people, no abuse please) "You should definitely do TKD! It's the best!" ?

I've seen a few threads like that where practical advice (that fits my world view above) gets lost in the "omg, do my art called 'A', it is the best!", "no way! art B is the best", "do my art, it's near where you live" etc.

TKD SC

Hi Colm / Khannie,

I think if a punter comes looking for self defence advise, people's replies cant really be limited or not allowed just because they say e.g. ba gua as opposed to e.g. kickboxing (just trying to pick two v diff MA here as eg). Maybe that person truly believes his MA is great for SD, maybe it is, maybe its not.

I think what Colm is saying re: ask the person what they are looking for, what they want to get out of it is the best way to go. A lot of people who haven't done an MA before will just say "self defence" anyway as a standard answer as to why they want to take one up, without really having thought about it. So, I think try to tailor any answers to the particular individual as much as possible.

Where he/she lives and areas they can get to for training is a good one as a few clubs will automatically spring to mind depending on that. Then, trying to ask them what they really want out of it and explaining some broad differences between the different MA's. Talking and reading can really only help someone so much, so I think the best bet then is for the person to try out a few different MA clubs that are recommended to physically see the difference and what they like.

We should really try to avoid slagging off other MA's or telling someone one is better than another. Point out the adv's / disadv's sure, but really better for the person in the long run if they decide themselves, with our help yes, but also with them trying out different MA's. We should encourage them to try out a few, see what suits them, what they enjoy and take it from there.

Thanks,
Simon

Colm_OReilly

A punter comes on looking for advice on which art to do for self defence, what are you gonna allow / not allow then? Is it a free for all? Can I say (purely example here people, no abuse please) "You should definitely do TKD! It's the best!" ?

No, I'll delete those posts. They're not helpful at all. If you were to recommend TKD, as an example, you'll need to provide details of what it entails, and how it fits into what the original poster has asked.

If someone comes along and says "Hey, I want to learn ITF Tae Kwon Do in Meath" then you can post "Roy Hartigan teaches a club" but still, times and a contact number/website should be included.

What I want to do is get away from the self promoting that can take over threads. I'm all for self promoting as a person, but as a mod I need to look at what's best for the users of this board.

Ideal criteria for recommendations:

• Fits exactly into what the OP asked for
• Demonstrates how it meets the OP's requirements
• Provides references to the club/style
• Provides contact information
• Provides video links to training/competition (I hihgly doubt there's an ma out there that doesn't have vignets on its website or youtube)

waterford mma

you could set up a thread where anyone can name their club and address and give a brief description of a typical class structure and/or their experience there. for example

JoSonDo Dojo
123 fake street springfield

Covers many arts such as jewjitsu, punching and kickpunching mixed with the foundation of all martial arts that is Josondo. Is not grade based, is focused more on street defense and preparing students for mma competition

A typical class has an intense 20 min warm up consisting of squats and bicep curls.
Then the class will be based around a few chosen techniques. After an hour of different scenarios in which the technique can be applied, students then get to fight to the death for 40 mins and try out the techniques in a reality based situation (sparring)

I attended 3 classes and am now ready for any situation, i found the instructor to be helpful and insightful and thought their emphasis on killing people really opened my eyes to how dangerous the real world can be.

two thumbs up

yomchi

or just provide a link to fighting ireland where all that can be found in due course anyway?

waterford mma

don't wanna draw attention away from boards though. think they want as many people to use boards as possible so that some will sign up to the subscription fee based service thus keeping boards running.

besides wouldn't hurt to have this info on two sites. plus there's already so many martial arts / mma sites around, i don't think i have the patience or time to register and look through any more

kravist

Colm_OReilly wrote:

For example, I'm a BB in Kenpo, so by rights I should be entitled to give an opinion on that. Also, in my role as a coach, I've had the opportunity to train and spar with individuals from other arts, so I believe I should be entitled to give an opinion on how those individuals have faired in sparring, etc.

Of course, in addition to this there are also punters who watch martial arts, much as there are punters who watch other sports. Take a soccer panel, for example: they can say that a certain team lacks aggressive pace or passing skills, or that they're lacking a good free kick taker. This is an observed flaw in a team's game. One, as an individual punter of martial arts and fighting, can point out their perceived flaws of a school or system.

So what's good and what's bad? For example:
"I find Spartan MMA poorly structured and too intense. They weren't friendly and I felt it wasn't technique based." etc etc. That's okay, specific flaws with the school.

"Spartan MMA was sh!te" is not.

Thoughts/Opinions?
Colm

My issue which you seem to have addressed, is people posting opinions about thinks based on hearsay, dvd's etc.
Correct, soccer panels express opinions, but are, for the most part made up of ex players (Professional in the case of soccer), even presenters are ex players eg. Gary Lineker.
Or in the case of the Sunday Game..Pat Spillane...etc.
I feel basing an opinion on the sparring qualities of students from other systems is unfair. Cool to judge that individuals sparring ability, but not the art they practice.The one true way to judge a system is to practice it, and practice it from a suitably qualified instructor!!!
Of course judgement on a particular instructor, regardless of the system they teach is important. All great systems have lower quality instructors!
In such opinions, value for money, communication, level of instruction, enjoyment etc. can and should be discussed. The one provision that opinions be constructive and mature, and not a mechanism to exact revenge, or settle old scores!

Just my take!

Khannie

Colm_OReilly wrote:

No, I'll delete those posts. They're not helpful at all. If you were to recommend TKD, as an example, you'll need to provide details of what it entails, and how it fits into what the original poster has asked.

Sounds good to me.

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Ideal criteria for recommendations:

• Fits exactly into what the OP asked for
• Demonstrates how it meets the OP's requirements
• Provides references to the club/style
• Provides contact information
• Provides video links to training/competition (I hihgly doubt there's an ma out there that doesn't have vignets on its website or youtube)

Also sounds good to me.