Guitars on planes

Maccattack

I'm moving to Oz for a couple of years. Will be sending a lot of stuff down but I want to take my new Gretsch with me.

However I'm very nervous about it. Anyone had any experiences of guitars in holds?

Im worried it will get nicked or damaged. at the very least the nice new case will be scratched up.

Wishbone Ash

Maccattack wrote:

I'm moving to Oz for a couple of years. Will be sending a lot of stuff down but I want to take my new Gretsch with me.

However I'm very nervous about it. Anyone had any experiences of guitars in holds?

Im worried it will get nicked or damaged. at the very least the nice new case will be scratched up.

Liveline (Joe Duffy) devoted a whole programme to the damage caused to musical instruments during air transit recently. It didn't make for comfortable listening! :eek:

bombidol

Ive transported guitars many times transatlantic and never had trouble.
However we have a gig in Italy next month and are flying Ryanir. The scum want nearly 50 Quid to put it on the plane! anyone got any work arounds for ryanair charges?

crosstownk

Get a good flight case and you should be OK - something sturdy that can take a bit of a knock.

I brought my guitar from Dublin > JFK and from Newark to Orlando and back to Dublin about 2 years ago, and the guitar suffered no damage at all and it didn't cost me a penny extra.

-=al=-

can u not just put the guitar ina hard case and have it as luggage???

its not like its really heav or overdized, just say its ur suitcase i guess! but make sure it can take a few knocks and slack those strings

Voodu Child

All the anecdotal evidence i've heard suggests that you absolutely should never put your guitar in the airplane hold; always take it with you on board.

Most of the stories i've heard (of stolen & damaged guitars) have been from US guys though, so perhaps you're a bit safer here. I wouldn't be willing to take the chance with one of my guitars. If the guitar was worth any serious kind of money, to me, it would be worth 50 quid to be 100% sure nobody did a runner with it.

-=al=-

buy it a seat. it might be cheaper

but yes the tempatures can get pretty intense when u put it in the airplane hold thing, try n get it on board


id be paranoid as feck if my guitar was in with the rest of the luggage like that the whole plane ride


or if tis a bolt on take the neck off and carry it like that as hand luggage

Shanegggg

Travailed to Germany with my gibson les paul a while back. The case that comes wit it is fairly sturdy but noticed a few scartches on the skin part. No damage to the actual guitar so i didn't really mind.

Don't forget to detune the guitar tho!!!
Forgot to on the way over and a few of the strings snapped!!
Must be the pressure in the hold!! :eek:

-=al=-

yeah u got to slacken the string and on a floyd unlock it...

like i said im not sure of the tempatures it can get up to but it gets pretty damn cold when u get to the max altitude, not good for wood and strings

mawk

yeah much the same advice as everyone else, put it in a hard case and drop the tuning. if your worried about knocks wrap the guitar in some bubble wrap inside the case. or maybe stuff in a few t shirts that didnt fit in your suitecase.

also tape or luggage strap the case closed. when i worked for aer rianta I once saw a case come out with the top broken off and no guitar in sight.

made me sad.

jimi_t

-=al=- wrote:

or if tis a bolt on take the neck off and carry it like that as hand luggage

No way will they let you bring what effectively is a club on a plane.

beerbaron

I brought the Martin d28 over and back to NY with American Airlines in March last yr. There were no probs. The cabin crew put it in their personal closet. Good guys.

Maccattack

I couldnt afford to buy another seat. that would be over a grand.

the terms and conditions say that had luggage cant be bigger than 50cm.


Can i pay a bit extra to bring it on board? anyone know?

judas101

-=al=- wrote:

or if tis a bolt on take the neck off and carry it like that as hand luggage

great idea!

never thought of that

Doctor J

Shanegggg wrote:

Don't forget to detune the guitar tho!!!
Forgot to on the way over and a few of the strings snapped!!
Must be the pressure in the hold!! :eek:

Not too sure about that one, in fairness. There is no pressure change in the hold, it is a pressurised part of the airplane, how do you think they transport animals and safely control pressurised containers in peoples luggage? If you think about it, even if there was less pressure there will be basically less air pressure pushing down on all parts of the guitar equally. If you remove the strings you still have a truss rod at tension in the neck counterbalancing a force that is no longer there which I would think could be harmful, your neck is getting force bending it in the opposite direction. Detune maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a turn but no more. I've had plenty of instruments shipped to me from abroad, all have arrived with the strings at near tension, none have ever been detuned and this includes ones from stores/vendors and direct from luthiers who do a lot of international shipping and none have ever warped or had any kind of issue.

If your strings snapped, it is more likely due to rough handling and the guitar getting bounced around inside the case. Less air pressure won't snap a string, nor will it cause the neck to bow, shrink or expand in such a way that it adds tension to the neck. Even dramatic temperature changes shouldn't do enough to snap a string and, again, the temperature is controlled in a luggage hold. Your instrument is more likely to be subjected to extremes of force and pressure when the baggage handlers throw it from the hold onto the carts.

Long story short, buy the best, sturdiest case you can, make sure there the instrument doesn't move in the least when inside the case and cover it in "fragile" stickers, seal it with rolls of clingfilm and check it in. Don't gamble on them allowing you to take it on the plane in a gigbag. Also, call whatever airline you're going with in advance and tell them you're bringing a guitar.

Some real life experiences http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311456 http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294881

Steve_o

Doctor J wrote:

Long story short, buy the best, sturdiest case you can, make sure there the instrument doesn't move in the least when inside the case and cover it in "fragile" stickers, seal it with rolls of clingfilm and check it in. Don't gamble on them allowing you to take it on the plane in a gigbag. Also, call whatever airline you're going with in advance and tell them you're bringing a guitar.

Thats pretty much exactly what i did coming back from France and had no problems.....just make sure its well secure!

Maccattack

Got this from my booking:

BAA Airport Cabin Baggage Policy
With effect from 01 August 2006 the following policies will apply:-
Any passenger with cabin baggage exceeding 56 cm x 45 cm x 25 cm / 22 ins x 18 ins x 10 ins. (IATA recommendations) will not be allowed through the security search area.
Those effected passengers will have their boarding pass stamped “REJECTED” and advised to go back to check-in to process the baggage.

If thats the case it is highly unlikely I'll get it on board.

bombidol

Just check it in. it will be grand. if its a good hardcase you are laughin. just plaster it with fragile stickers. The case will get scratched but thats what its for.

bombidol

Also, has anyone actually done that break a guitar up and bring it on as hand luggage before?

feylya

Not as hand luggage. Stuck in in 2 suitcases though and it was grand.

bombidol

suitcase isnt much use to me. flyin to italy for a gig and ryan air want 50 lids to bring the guitar the scum.
and they charge for checking in baggage. so was hoping to put it in carry on. only thing is that i WILL be stopped and searched hard core going through security with what looks like a bomb and a baton

Voodu Child

Maccattack wrote:

If thats the case it is highly unlikely I'll get it on board.

Find out if it's insured in that case.

Baggage handlers aren't called nick-named 'throwers' for no reason, and nothing screams 'steal me!' like a big guitar case with 'fragile' stickers all over it.

The environmental conditions in the luggage holds arent a huge concern (they would be if you were playing something like a cello), but most luggage holds drop to very low temperatures, and even if they are pressurised (which isnt guaranteed), it's not to full atmospheric pressure.

The sudden (couple of hours) temperature and pressure change can cause paint & laquer cracks etc.

But like I said, that wouldn't be my main concern. I'd be mostly worried about it falling off a luggage cart or getting nicked. Definitely make sure it's insured.

Doctor J

The cabins aren't pressurised to full atmospheric pressure either, it's usually equivalent to about 6,000 feet but all luggage holds in commercial aircraft are pressurised to the same level as the cabin. A good case will also provide some insulation against any temperature drops and, over the likes of a two hours flight to Italy, shouldn't be an issue.

Voodu Child

Well, like I said, the actual environmental conditions wouldn't be my main concern, it would be simple dropping or theft type stuff.

But a drop to near zero temperatures and back to normal again in the space of two hours isn't good for an instrument. There's no guarantee that anything will or won't happen, but it's not a healthy thing for an instrument, and i'd need to make sure i had checked the insurance arrangements before i was happy to give up my guitar.

Afaik, not all luggage holds are pressurised either. I believe some aircraft have pressurised and unpressurised sections. Either way, you've got a gasseous content in the paint and laquer of the guitar, and a drop and rise in pressure in the space of two hours isn't good for the guitar. The tiny air/gas bubble's in the finish will expand, same as a diver suddenly surfacing.

NJFCs are often caused by this, the temperature and pressure change is enough to cause the finish to expand and contract, and it cracks in the weak spot.

Strings.ie

I was on a tour in Denmark a few years back. Ryanair made me sign a disclaimer. On landing at Stansted airport the missus witnessed my guitar being thrown at the luggage truck by the handler. The guitar missed the truck and hit the deck. Ryanair basically gave me two fingers as did the the airport. The guitar (acoustic) suffered a major crack on the sound board. Not good.

One thing though; Some friends recently flew over from the US with their beautiful hand made instruments. They were telling me that you can buy a seat on ryanair for your guitar. If you pick up one of those cheap flight offers this maybe the way to go. Not tried it myself mind.

-=al=-

ud look funny with a guitar sitting beside ya, yet safe...

wud u put the gutiars name down on the itenary?

Strings.ie

-=al=- wrote:

ud look funny with a guitar sitting beside ya, yet safe...

wud u put the gutiars name down on the itenary?

Sounds pretty mad doesn't it but from Ryanairs point of view a seat sale is a seat sale. I'm sure they said they put Mr. Guitar down or something like that. Might be worth a call to ryanair to ask.

Doctor J

Your average Airbus and Boeings used on this side of the world have pressurised holds, botht he cabin and holds are inside the pressurised hull, some are even heated and while it may drop temperature in there in flight in the non-heated holds, it never gets more than chilly, it doesn't get near to freezing. Otherwise you'd notice your luggage would be cold and possibly the inside damp with condensation when you retrieve it, especially at more efficient airports like Heathrow where the luggage usually beats you to the terminal and a good case definitely provides some insulation. It's less harmful than spending a night in a cold UPS warehouse and then opened up to room temperature when you recieve it and, let's be honest, who here has a guitar that hasn't been transported by plane at some point?

A well packed guitar in a sturdy case should be fine, provided it only gets the usual rough handling and doesn't get driven over, dropped from an immense height, etc.

Voodu Child

Doctor J wrote:

while it may drop temperature in there in flight in the non-heated holds, it never gets more than chilly, it doesn't get near to freezing.

Depends on the airline, aircraft, and location in the hold. BA advises their hold can fall to 4C. There is usually an area designated for live animals where the temperature is ensured not to fall below zero. If your guitar ends up on the other side of the hold, temperature will be lower.

Thousands of animals die in aircraft holds every year, and there were all sorts of warnings and precautions issued to diabetics recently about checking their insulin hadn't frozen during flights. So the possibilty of the temperature falling very low is there.

It's less harmful than spending a night in a cold UPS warehouse and then opened up to room temperature when you recieve it and, let's be honest, who here has a guitar that hasn't been transported by plane at some point?

Ah, but you'll always make sure your guitar is 100% insured when shipping by USPS or the likes (unless you're stupid;) ) And it's not really a valid comparison IMO, as the UPS warehouse won't drop from 14C to 4C (or less) and back again inside a an hour or two. Its the sudden change more so than the extreme of temperature/pressure/humidity.

A well packed guitar in a sturdy case should be fine, provided it only gets the usual rough handling and doesn't get driven over, dropped from an immense height, etc.

'Should' isnt good enough when you have an instrument worth any serious kind of money.

I had a full airside security pass in Dublin Airport during some work i was doing there recenty. I drove over and back on the apron 10+ times a day for 6 months. If you saw the way the 'throwers' handle packages and drive their carts, you'd understand my concern

This issue has actually been pretty topical lately.

Doctor J

Thousands of animals die outside of planes too. The interior of millions of houses goes below zero on a nightly basis in winter and then the occupants switch on their central heating in the mornings. Millions of guitars have survived this onslaught. A package located overnight in a cold warehouse and then transported in the depths of winter in the back of a UPS van which doesn't have a heated storage compartment can be delivered to a house or indeed a workplace which has the heating turned on and then opened within minutes of being extracted from the cold van so yes, it is a valid comparison and it happens on a daily basis... in the winter, at least . Look man, we could nit pick all night, but it strays further and further from the point raised by the OP

Should is sometimes the best you can expect. It is reasonable to expect your luggage to arrive in one piece. Sometimes, the system fails. It shouldn't happen, but it can happen. Anyone who has looked out of the window when their plane reaches the gate has seen what the guys do with the luggage. They should treat things a bit more carefully, but they don't. Short of buying a seat for the guitar, or an armoured case sheathed in bouncy rubber, the OP's options are limited and it's a bit of a risk no matter what he does. Unless it goes by boat, chances are it's going to be put in the hold of a plane at some point. Millions of guitars find themselves in the holds of planes before they even get to the shop to be sold in the first place. FFS the plane could crash with him and the guitar IMO the best way to minimise the risk is to pack the guitar well in a quality case, as already repeated. In this day and age it is unlikely to be allowed on as hand luggage, it may happen but I wouldn't bet the survival of the guitar on it

Voodu Child

Doctor J wrote:

Look man, we could nit pick all night, but it strays further and further from the point raised by the OP

Well, the relevance to the OP, is that you've got lot's of stuff that could happen - whether it be impact damage, theft, minor finish cracking etc. And this stuff does happen. You can't dispute the possibilty of some sort of damage occurring, because the stories of stolen and damaged luggage are out there.

6 out of 1000 pieces of cargo luggage go missing in the US. 14 out of 1000 for Europe. The majority are located eventually, but that's a scary enough statistic.

So, the point im making is, you've got a possibilty of something happening to your guitar. If my guitar was worth any kind of money (and i presume the OPs is) I wouldn't accept the possibilty with a shrug of my shoulders, 'just one of those things'. I'd want to make sure the guitar was insured. Otherwise, i wouldn't bring the guitar.

You can make the point about the guitar coming by UPS etc from a cold warehouse/van etc, but as I said, you'll make sure the instrument is insured beforehand.

banjopaul

Fly with whoever these guys flew with:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=bGmsWy_3AVk

Shanegggg

Doctor J wrote:

Not too sure about that one, in fairness. There is no pressure change in the hold, it is a pressurised part of the airplane, how do you think they transport animals and safely control pressurised containers in peoples luggage? If you think about it, even if there was less pressure there will be basically less air pressure pushing down on all parts of the guitar equally.

Yeah thats what i thought too. But apparently not!!
As i was restringing it afterwards, i was looking at the back of the string packet (D'ardario) and it gave the string tensions of each string when tuned and the two that snapped had the highest (think it was D and high E) so it seemed to make sense. Could of been all coincidence none the less!!:p

Doctor J wrote:

If your strings snapped, it is more likely due to rough handling and the guitar getting bounced around inside the case. Less air pressure won't snap a string, nor will it cause the neck to bow, shrink or expand in such a way that it adds tension to the neck.

Tbh it would take some bounce r throw to break the strings, probably more likely to crack then break a string me thinks!

Quattroste

Doctor J wrote:

Millions of guitars find themselves in the holds of planes before they even get to the shop to be sold in the first place.

We must take action to stop this cruelty. How about the ISPCG

Best solution. Proper flight case. Some extra careful padding. Insurance. This way your covered for all eventualities. Maybe bring a few quid extra aswell just in case you need to get a new guitar when you arrive.

Interesting nitpicking though!