Guinness Mid-Strength

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I had a look back to February 2006 in the BWS forum here, but I couldn't find a reference to this.

Link

I wonder how it went down? I was living out of the country at the time, and I never heard of the launch of this in Limerick.

However, recently, in one of my locals, Harry Byrne's on the Howth Road, it has been introduced. I first saw a poster for it on the day of the FA Cup Final.

Is it being given a nationwide launch?

Interesting to hear from anyone who has tried it. I might give it a shot next time I'm down in Harry's.

BeerNut

I think they've just extended the trial to Dublin. Article from the Irish Times here.

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Ah, thanks for that. Missed that article.

rubadub

the mid-strength brew is created through the same process as the original and then drained of some of its alcohol.

Anybody know how they do this? smells like bull**** to me.

noby

Sounds like marketing speak alright.
I'm no expert in removing alcohol from beer. Perhaps they remove the alcohol from half a batch, and then reblend it with the 'normal' half to get the lower abv.

CiaranC

Saw this in Kehoes off Grafton St the other day.

gaffmaster

People might use it as an excuse to drink and drive...

John: "No! I'm not letting you drive, you've had 14 pints"
Michael: "Arra sure I grand, sure twas the Guinness Mid-strength!"
John: "Oh! right so! on ya go!"
Michael: "See ya now!"
John: "Eh, michael, that's not your car, it's a phone box."
Michael: "Shut up, I know what I'm doin'"

donaghs

I've seen signs for this, and possibly beer-mats as well, but have there been any definitive sightings of this in Dublin behind a bar?

If so, what's it taste like and where's it available?

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donaghs wrote: »

I've seen signs for this, and possibly beer-mats as well, but have there been any definitive sightings of this in Dublin behind a bar?

If so, what's it taste like and where's it available?

They Definitely serve it in Harry Byrne's on the Howth Road, in Clontarf.

I haven't bought a pint yet.

BeerNut

It is definitely for sale in Doheny & Nesbitt.

It tastes awful.

rubadub

gaffmaster wrote: »

People might use it as an excuse to drink and drive..."

At 2.8% a pint of it has ~1.2 times the alcohol as a shot of smirnoff or bacardi.

I would buy/try it if the price was lowered in accordance with the ingredients and duty paid- however I think they are charging the same which is not acceptable, smirnoff could dilute vodka to 20% and call it mid strength! - there probably is a little more cost in the process but the duty is certainly less.

guildofevil

Agreed. Their costs are less, as is the duty. Charging the same price as a standard pint is fleecing their customers.

BeerNut

guildofevil wrote: »

Agreed. Their costs are less, as is the duty. Charging the same price as a standard pint is fleecing their customers.

I think the saving on ingredients could easily be made up on capital outlay for the extra processing.

The duty argument only makes sense if you accept Diageo's pitch that the product is basically draught Guinness. Otherwise one would have to complain about being charged the same price for Beck's Vier and Stella Artois, which have a similar 1.2% difference in ABV. Or is the whole notion of pub charges being based on beer styles rather than strength just ridiculous?

guildofevil

Oh come on BeerNut. How much extra processing are we talking about here?
Using brewing equipment to make a lower alcohol version of the same beer it normally produces takes a lot less change in process than using it to make a higher alcohol version, like foreign extra, for instance, or one of the brew house series, where they actually use different malts. With a lower alcohol Guinness, we are talking about the same ingredients, just less of them.

BeerNut

guildofevil wrote: »

How much extra processing are we talking about here? ... we are talking about the same ingredients, just less of them.

I'm taking them at their word (as quoted by rubadub above) that this is partly de-alcoholised Draught Guinness rather than Guinness brewed to a lower ABV. That means you start with the core product, and all the costs that went into making it, and then process it further. And that's going to cost more. How much more and how this process is done (if it's actually what happens), I have no idea, nor do I want to, really.

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I'm going to be in the pub ferm early for the football this evening.

I'll sample a pint of this I think.

BeerNut

Good luck, soldier.

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BeerNut wrote: »

Good luck, soldier.

If I don't post again, ever, you'll all know what has happened.

kenmc

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm taking them at their word (as quoted by rubadub above) that this is partly de-alcoholised Draught Guinness rather than Guinness brewed to a lower ABV. That means you start with the core product, and all the costs that went into making it, and then process it further. And that's going to cost more. How much more and how this process is done (if it's actually what happens), I have no idea, nor do I want to, really.

If I'm not mistaken (I don't have his book to hand here in work), Iorwerth Griffiths asserts that many major brewers (including Guinness?) brew batches at stronger than desired output ABV and then dilute to required strength. To make the mid-strength would be no more difficult than making 'normal' guinness, the only extra ingredient required being more water (?) to dilute the strong batch, so therefore saving on ingredients as they could get e.g. 1.5 times the volume of mid-strength for the same ingredients as 'normal' guinness.
So if this is the case, it's not a question of driving the alcohol off 'normal' guinness, which would indeed involve a further processing step, but rather just adding more water, a process which they are doing anyway.

BeerNut

kenmc wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken (I don't have his book to hand here in work), Iorwerth Griffiths asserts that many major brewers (including Guinness?) brew batches at stronger than desired output ABV and then dilute to required strength.

I have a memory of Iorwerth saying that when I met him. Diluting the core product to the required strength really does seem like the sensible way of doing it. Except, as a brewer, if you wanted to lower the ABV of one of your beers and not change anything else about it, is this how you'd do it? Surely it would affect other features of the beer.

kenmc

Would almost certainly affect the body and mouthfeel too, so maybe they brew with some more unfermentables than 'normal' to leave more body.
No matter how they do it, the real question to ask is 'WHY? WHY OH WHY?'
I can just picture Arthur turning in his grave....

BeerNut

Oh I'd say as long as the company's turning a profit Arthur'd be happy enough.

See, the body and mouthfeel is one thing they've got spot-on with Mid-Strength. And that's what suggests extra processing or extra research to me.

Why? Because their market share is fading and they reckon (from market research, presumably) one reason people aren't drinking more Guinness is because it contains too much alcohol.

I think that stout is just going out of fashion, as beer styles do from time to time.

kenmc

BeerNut wrote: »

they reckon (from market research, presumably) one reason people aren't drinking more Guinness is because it contains too much alcohol.

Well I'd say they've gotten themselves the wrong market research company so, who have obviously forgotten to factor in the popularity of alcopops, heineken import etc which are up at 5%, whereas Guinness languishes at 4% give or take.

The recent trend is towards low-carb beer, which is not necessarily the same as low-alcohol beer.

I don't think that it takes much to work out that the main problem is that Guinness is perceived as an old persons drink, vs bud/coors/miller etc which all feature young people having a good time in partys etc in their TV ads, whereas Guinness have yellow men bouncing off drums or earthquakes in dublin city. Poor advertising and poor market research

josh59

It'll be doomed to failure IMO anyone of my age who remembers the fiasco that was "Guinness Light" - I think the advertising catch line was "Light after the Dark" - it basically tasted like watered down Guinness.

It was launched in the early 80's when Guinness was a VERY popular drink - both draught and in bottles. In my original part of the sod (Tipp/ Waterford) area the large bottle of Guinness was the older working mans weapon of choice - drunk from a 1/2 pint glass that was contantly topped up.

The other quirk that Guinness brought out a few years later was the 6 pack of "draught" bottled Guinness. The six bottles came with a syringe device that you used to shoot air into the glass to give the stout in the glass a head. If your were at a house party - the syringe yoke generally got lost after a few libations and you ended up drinking the flat stuff straight out the bottle - at 2 in the morning who cared anyway !!!!!:D

guildofevil

BeerNut wrote: »

I'm taking them at their word (as quoted by rubadub above) that this is partly de-alcoholised Draught Guinness rather than Guinness brewed to a lower ABV. That means you start with the core product, and all the costs that went into making it, and then process it further.

Sounds like a bunch of marketing speak to me. That would be a very awkward way of achieving something that would be easier and cheaper to do using conventional brewing techniques.

I would file this along side Bud's old "We know of no other beer which costs more to brew and mature..."

BeerNut wrote: »

I have a memory of Iorwerth saying that when I met him. Diluting the core product to the required strength really does seem like the sensible way of doing it. Except, as a brewer, if you wanted to lower the ABV of one of your beers and not change anything else about it, is this how you'd do it? Surely it would affect other features of the beer.

It would indeed. The high gravity brewing process referred to is used to make many of the worlds most popular beers, but the strong beer in question is designed to give the desired end product after dilution. If it is diluted further, it would not only be weaker in alcohol, but in flavour and mouth feel too.