limit poker advice needed

Norwich Fan Rob

as part of my ladbrokes wsop pack, im being put into a $1500 warm up game b4 the main event.
the format for this game is a texas holdem limit shootout.

having played a lot of STTs in former days, im comfortable with the shootout element of this, in fact i like the idea of just having to win one table to make the money, however, ive never played a limit tourney before..........

anyone out there with any pointers as regards a strategy for this and how it might differ from the usual NL.

loosecannon

i'll second your exact question rob

i'm also with ladbrokes and i don't have a rashers how to play Limit hold'em let alone limit hold'em tournaments

any advise especially from any one who has a piece of me would be well needed and much appreciated

cheers

andrew

Jesus Wept

I would imagine you can transfer to a diff event, my friend has transfered to diff events from ones he had bought in for.

---

The secret to limit Hold'em is to put your opponent to the test for all their chips.

NickyOD

play tight

dacman

I never play limit but download stox videos. He is excellent at limit. I bought a limit poker book by accident once but read it anyway and there was good pot odds advice as well as pot buliding advice in that so buy a book on limit. However transfering the ticket to another event is probably the best thing to do.

CelticPhantom

NickyOD wrote:

play tight

Second that.

Tight starting hands, since it is impossible to stop anyone chasing and drawing out on you.:mad:

Bandana boy

I am not sure what play "tight" means for limit poker
usually there is 3 things important in Limit

1.Building a pot for your big draws
2.Do not over play big pairs
3. 1 pair is not strong

RoundTower

Building a pot with your draws doesn't make sense in limit poker. In no limit and pot limit you make the pot big so you can make bigger bets on future streets if you hit your draw. In limit you can only make the same size bet.

In limit poker if you are jamming with your draws it is for other reasons. Because you want the other guy to fold now or on a later street. Or because your draw is really so big that you have more than your fair share of equity in the pot. Or because you want to push certain players out, or keep them in.

I don't know all that much about limit poker but I'm pretty sure I'm right here.

CelticPhantom

Free card -

A bet / raise on the flop may get a free card on the turn. This can be important since the bet doubles between flop and turn.

Fatboydim

Suited connectors have far more value early on than high cards or even pairs, as if you connect players are not going to go away.

However starting hand selection is important - especially in the early rounds where players will chase everything.

Raises pre-flop at this stage are almost meaningless.

Later when the blinds are high - revert to a more normal strategy as by then only good hands should be seeing flops.

A check raise on the flop will often allow you to see the turn for free. And can be cheaper if drawing.

gerry87

It's pretty similar to NL, but its easier to plan for later streets.

As said, play tight. Play good hands in position. Don't make a habit of cold call pf raises with crap. Bet and raise when you have the best hand, it's quite odds orientated - draw when you have odds, chuck when you don't. If the pot is decent, don't fold marginal hands to one bet on the river even if you think you might be beat. Check raising is important to push out draws, but don't miss bets

Use free card plays. If someone bets into you in position and you have a draw, re-raising on the flop and checking the turn is cheaper than calling flop and calling turn since people usually check to the last raiser. Use the flop to bet/raise for information, and the turn and river for value.

There is more bluffing and stealing than you think in later rounds, so raise in position. Blind and pot stealing is vital in later rounds. If you're planning on stealing a small pot, say blind vs blind, stealing on the turn is much more effective than the flop.

The same as nl, identify the blinds you can steal and the maniacs you can call down with top pair.

Thats just some general ramblings. I usually play 6max cash. If i think of anything else i'll post. Do you have any specific q's about it?

Ste05

Why on earth are they using a Limit Hold 'Em Shootout Tournament as a warm up to a No-Limit Hold 'Em Multi-Table Tournament... it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'd seriously change the tournament if you can, especially if neither of you even know how to play LHE. Even the tournament element of the game is different to a NLHE tournament, there's no getting to 10BB's and pushing, nor as much re-stealing, IMO it's a completely different kettle of fish and I don't know anything about it to offer anything even remotely helpful except to suggest reading/ looking over any of the Sklansky books and even Super System 2 (Limit section obv.) would be worth looking over for points about the game, and also the LHE forums on 2+2.

EDIT: Also if you are a CR member or know anyone else that is, Schneids has some LHE cash game video's, that to my untrained eye looked good.

gerry87

RoundTower wrote:

Building a pot with your draws doesn't make sense in limit poker. In no limit and pot limit you make the pot big so you can make bigger bets on future streets if you hit your draw. In limit you can only make the same size bet.

In limit poker if you are jamming with your draws it is for other reasons. Because you want the other guy to fold now or on a later street. Or because your draw is really so big that you have more than your fair share of equity in the pot. Or because you want to push certain players out, or keep them in.

I don't know all that much about limit poker but I'm pretty sure I'm right here.

Against one person you're semibluffing, but if you have the nut flush draw in a 5/6 way pot, then building the pot isn't too bad since you have your 1/3 stake in it, if more than 2 people call it's +EV.

MrPillowTalk

I only ever play short handed limit, but in general play much tighter pre flop and more loose post flop.

HiCloy

I've started playing limit holdem lately

Its so much simpler than NL

Think about what hands you want to play multiway and what heads up - small pairs/SC multiway, AJo heads up etc. After a raise, call with the first group and raise with the second. Calling with the group will alomst certainly induce a multiway pot as the big blind and anyone else with a half decent hand will call

I never bet draw, but check call with them a huge amount - you almost always have the odds. Just work it out.

I think the best place to steal is the turn, as with the bet now double the previous one it will give worse odds than trying to get players to fold the flop

I never fire out of the blinds with anything in a multiway pot, as no-one who has already called $2 will fold for another $2, and you really define your hand OOP

I'll add more later

ianmc38

dont fold any pair. ever.

phantom_lord

this is pretty much all I know about limit.

DeVore

It really depends on your table. Americans play very tight limit poker by and large and you can *occasionally* bluff them off a pot. Euros play far looser limit poker and if they have any draw at all, they will have the odds to call generally.

By and large I would say this about the differences:
1. Bluff less, its hard to drive people out of a multi way pot.
2. Call more with draws (obvious, since in general you will be getting the right odds).
3. Beware of a non-nuts draw. There are a lot more people drawing in limit poker, you could find yourself holding the idiot end of the straight. beware.
4. Tighten your starting hand selection but also give more weight to suited connectors.

The looseness/tightness of your table will make a huge difference. I have occasionally played the 5/10 limit game in Malta where 7-8 players will see every flop. 2 will drop out every street, the rest call. By the time it gets around to you on the flop you are often getting 14:1 on your money. Any hand I play, I know I'm going to end up seeing 5 cards against probably 2 other players at the end. If you end up on a table like this, then its going to vastly affect your starting hand selection. if you're table is tight, then it will go the other way. Limit is a game of edges and outdraws, I havent put the above well but I wouldnt claim to be an experienced limit player either. Try a few 50 dollar sngs online perhaps.

DeV.

luckylucky

I think a lot of the advice on this thread could get you in trouble. The value of small pairs and suited connectors are far less in limit hold em than in no limit hold em, your odds of hitting your hand stay the same, but the potential is far less than in no limit. I'm not saying you can't play small pairs or suited connectors but you want to be doing it in multiway pots and in late position.

A TAG game especially full ring is the way to go, also high cards are better in limit hold em than they are in no limit, it's one of the adjustments I had to make when moving from limit to no limit, took me a while to figure that KQ was not great shakes in no limit. Anyway Like MrPt says tight preflop, but you can be quite aggressive post flop.

Have fun.

DeVore wrote:

1. Bluff less, its hard to drive people out of a multi way pot.
3. Beware of a non-nuts draw. There are a lot more people drawing in limit poker, you could find yourself holding the idiot end of the straight.
DeV.

Important points from Devore imo.

DeVore

Hmmmmmm interesting luckylucky. I would have generally played suited connectors in Limit as I like the implied odds if I hit any of the flop... but then again the limit poker game I play in is very weird in that its betsize never changes and the players are all calling stations.

Tighty MacTight preflop and then looser post flop. Consider that there will be a fair bit of chasing and raise-call-calling on fourth and fifth street so you are generally priced in for any nut draw.

Never thought about it before but does A-rag soooooooooted suddenly become playable for flush/twopair?? In position? Anywhere? I've always dumped it in EP and limped in late...

DeV.

Norwich Fan Rob

i will do some research and battle away, spoke to ladbrokes, it cant be changed, thats the game we are entered in, and thats it.

luckylucky

DeVore wrote:

Hmmmmmm interesting luckylucky. I would have generally played suited connectors in Limit as I like the implied odds if I hit any of the flop... but then again the limit poker game I play in is very weird in that its betsize never changes and the players are all calling stations.

In a full ring game like the one you play in you probably want to call a lot more flops than in your typical online fixed limit game, especially ones with Americans. So I can definitely see why you would want to call with suited connectors quite liberally. In the game that NorwichFanRob is likely to face in tHe States though, he will need to be quite picky about his starting hands

DeVore wrote:

Tighty MacTight preflop and then looser post flop. Consider that there will be a fair bit of chasing and raise-call-calling on fourth and fifth street so you are generally priced in for any nut draw.

I might have been a bit hasty joining in with MRPT saying looser post flop without elaboratinh. In the shorthand games that MRPT plays there is probably going to be a max of 2 or 3 players postflop and very often nobody will have anything much and until the signals become clear that your hand isn't any good it's often good to fire a bet at least on the flop and sometimes on the turn too with not much, so there is definitely spots where you can be loose but like all situations you need to suss out your opposition. If you have more than 2 opponents it's hardly ever advisable to bluff in limit poker though.

DeVore wrote:

Never thought about it before but does A-rag soooooooooted suddenly become playable for flush/twopair?? In position? Anywhere? I've always dumped it in EP and limped in late...

DeV.

Imo i'd only play it in multiway pot in late position and for stealing from button.

I think tbh it'd be hard to get a total handle on fixed limit in just a short period of time now, even for someone of the Op's talent.

The most important thing to remember in Limit is that you have far less Implied Odds, so trying to be too clever with dodgy hands for the big pay off is not a good idea. High cards and Medium Pairs or better are the ones you want by and large especially if pots are not multiway.

The 2+2 forum would probably be a good spot to pick up tips from the yanks who grew up with fixed limit.

I found Bob Ciaffone's Middle limit hold'em poker good too if you have time to go through any book.

Goodluck2me

HiCloy wrote:

I'll add more later

super.just super.

Gerry87 wrote:

It's pretty similar to NL, but its easier to plan for later streets.

also playing live its very important to note that your chips are weapons so use them wisely. Building proper psychological stacks are an integral part of intimidating your opponents. more about it here and it worked for him

Limit holdem is not about asking a man a question for all his chips its about playing each hand as best you can in isolation in an expanded field in moderation. (generally speaking).

Ill add more when i think of it.

mdwexford

goodluck2me wrote:

Ill add more when i think of it.

super, just super

Goodluck2me

mdwexford wrote:

super, just super

lol

hotspur

Luckylucky is right there's some semi-dodgy advice in this thread. If you have the time read Jen Harman's chapter in SS2. Playing good LHE from scratch is pretty difficult in my opinion unless you adopt a nit approach. It really takes time to learn it, and I say that as someone who has tried and failed to develop a good LHE game (its my HORSE leak).

The other genuine option to playing tightly and hoping to get cards is to say to yourself "shag it I'm not very good at LHE, so I'm gonna go out swinging" and play loosely and very aggressively. This can work, last week I watched the WSOP LHE event that the American homeless guy Elix Powers got to the final table of. He was just wild and loose (playing a famous pot blind all the way on the final table). I believe if you're not good at a game then you should play it aggressively for maximum potential of return. You need to get lucky, so get lucky with lots of your chips in the middle, and bully the LHE playing pussies

Best of luck with it anyway Rob.

ocallagh

practice and SS2

HiCloy

goodluck2me wrote:

Ill add more when i think of it.

Super. Just super.

Ok here's a hand i played earlier - too nittish?

I'm BB with AKo. Full ring.

Blinds 1/2. UTG+1 raises to 4 - range here something like 88+, A9+, KQ, KJ maybe

4 callers, they don't have a big pair or AK/Q but any other pair, SCs, any two broadways, suited one gappers for the later callers too.

I call in the BB. (pot = 24)

Flop AQ8 2 to 1

i check, UTG+1 bets 2, 3 callers (thats pretty standard altho less so here with the A on the board, a lot of people would have called in general with 2 overs). I flat call in BB (pot = 34)

Turn 9
I check, UTG+1 bets 4, next guy raises to 8, 1 call, 1 fold, there's 54 in the pot and I fold.

Comments?

Ste05

Are you serious?

Why didn't you raise PF, Bet the flop (or C/R), lead the turn (or at least call) then c/c the River.

HiCloy

Ste05 wrote:

Are you serious?

Why didn't you raise PF, Bet the flop (or C/R), lead the turn (or at least call) then c/c the River.

Yeah i didn't think one pair will be good here very often. I could have CR'd the flop alright

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

gerry87

3bet pf, it would make the rest of the hand alot easier.

On the flop you have 2 options, bet out or check raise. I dont like a checkraise since any draws that called his bet are getting much better odds after you raise.

Leading the flop is better, since the raiser is on your direct left, it would't build the pot as much for draws and the raiser will 3 bet with alot here, pushing out draws. It's your best chance of getting heads up.

After a bet and a raise on the turn i think you're done with the hand, you're only getting around 7-1 at best, proably less with any bets/raises on the river, plus waiting until the turn to raise is often a flopped monster.