running times?

oneeyedsnake

What sort of fitness is required for a sub 3hr marathon.I am already pretty fit from rowing but would like to do the dublin amarthon in oct/sept(?) to keep my focus on/improve aerobic capacity during the off season.I know that rowing uses different muscles but how lon would it take to effectivly "convert" my fitness from the river to road?

stepperupper

Have a look around for a sub 3 hr training schedule. Irish runner magazine or google it maybe. That should give you an indication as to the fitness required. You'd be working hard enough to get under the 3 hrs. I know ye rowers can run all day long, but sub 3 hrs is really clipping along... it's what? a little under 7 min. miles. Sure go for it... it really would improve your aerobic capacity no end.

mkem

To complete a marathon is a great achievement. You'll have to register pretty soon for Dublin.You'll get an application form and training schedules from Irish Runner Magazine. It's always on October Bank Holiday Monday. Not to dwell on the negatives but unless you're already running, it's a bit late to achieve that time. You should complete and enjoy it this year and then go for it next year ! It takes time for the body, muscles and especially ligament & tendons to adjust. The roads are very unforgiving. Best of luck.

Peckham

3 hours is undoubtedly a tough call for a first time marathoner...as all us long distance runners like to quote, just ask Lance Armstrong who finished last year's New York marathon in just under 3 hours: "that was without a doubt the hardest physical thing I have ever done"

hunnymonster

sub 3 is considered a pretty speedy time for a man and would put a woman into the elite category in most races.

You can enter Dublin until about 10 day beforehand but the price starts to go up. If you are new to running and want a fast time you should probably start training now.

oneeyedsnake

I used to run in school,did cross country and the odd 800m.Run once a week for about 40 min as cross training.Have done a 4:30 mile before without any specific training so am reasonable.Don't want to get shin splints so I'll probally start running 1/2 hrs a week and add an hour every week or so till I hit 6 hour a week then throw in some fartlek at the begining of september to sharpen up,or do you bother to sharpen for marathons?

hunnymonster

I think you need to do a little reading on what's involved in marathon training. Running a fast mile does not equate to running 26 of them fast. You may find it easy but then again you may not. It sounds like you've not tried anythign like this before.

6 hours would be a modest total for marathon training. To avoid injury the conventional wisdom is that you do not increase total distance, distance of longest run or speed by more than 10% per week. Aim to have your biggest week about 3 weeks out from the marathon and work back from that.


For example, if I was training for a marathon about 3 weeks out I would be doing something like

monday - 8 miles at race pace
tuesday - 5 miles slow
wednesday - 15 miles slow
thursday - 5 miles with some 400m repeats thrown in
friday - 8 miles at race pace with some hills
saturday - rest
sunday - 22 miles slow

I rarely let my base mileage go below 40 miles a week.

--amadeus--

Assuming that you aren't a troll out to wind up endurance athletes everywhere...?

You asked what kind of fitness is needed for a sub 3 hour marathon. While I don't doubt that you are very fit I'm not sure that the aerobic fitness you have will do you that much good when it comes to a marathin full stop, let alone a sub 3.

Put it another way - how about I wander into your rowing club and announce that I do half an hour once a week on a rowing machine but I fancy competing in the M1x category and what training do I need to go sub 9:30?

I'm pretty sure people would crack up laughing and explain that you don't wander in off the street and do times like that. Well the same applies in marathons - sub 3 puts you in the top 2.5% of any normal field and is 70% of the WR time of 2:04, which would make you a top regional competitor.

I think what you may have been asking is "based on how fit I already am how hard is sub 3?" and the answer is very. While you may be aerobically fit you lack specifity of training, in other words your leg strength won't transfer, your joints lack the robustness they'll need for 26 high impact miles on tarmac and (unless you row in very long distance events) you won't have the stamina for 3 - 5 hours of 70 - 80% MHR effort.

Most sub 3 marathon runners have training plans consisting of an average of 60 - 80 miles per week for 16 - 18 weeks, peaking at several 100mile+ weeks. They include at least five long runs of 20 miles+, run 5 - 6 days per week and probably do doubles (a session in the morning and one in teh afternoon).

As you don't really run at the moment it would be very unwise to risk this intensity of effort. That said talented athletes are capable of amazing things so please keep in touch and let us know how you get on.

aburke

Just another post to say, I have to agree with what most of the other posters are saying.
It generally takes longer than a couple of months to get in 3 hr marathon shape.
I signed up today for Dublin, it [all going well] will be my 3rd marathon and I'm aiming to go sub 3.

The first year I ran 3:33 after a year of slowly building up the miles are peaked at about 40 miles per week.
Last year, I ran 3:13 having increased the average to about 45 miles per week [12 week program] and peaked at 4 x 60 mile weeks.

I had been running year round, doing at least 20 miles per week, but upped the training during the summer.

This year I'm averaging 45/50 miles per week already and will run 60 miles weeks for the 12 week program, peaking with 4 70/75 mile weeks .

For a marathon, the is simply NO substitute for miles in the legs. You need the other speedwork, tempo work etc, but its useless without mileage.

Its only by running for the last 3 years than I can run 50 miles per week and stay injury free [so far :-)]

All that said, if you ran a 4:30 mile without specific training, you are definitely athletically talented, and you stand a much better chance than an average slogger.

I'm surprised more people haven't suggested that if Lance Armstrong could knock off a 3 hr marathon, anybody could.
I'm telling you right now, if El Guerrouj was pacing me, and dragging me out for 20 mile training runs, it would be a bit easier :-)

oneeyedsnake

--amadeus-- wrote:

Assuming that you aren't a troll out to wind up endurance athletes everywhere...?

You asked what kind of fitness is needed for a sub 3 hour marathon. While I don't doubt that you are very fit I'm not sure that the aerobic fitness you have will do you that much good when it comes to a marathin full stop, let alone a sub 3.

Put it another way - how about I wander into your rowing club and announce that I do half an hour once a week on a rowing machine but I fancy competing in the M1x category and what training do I need to go sub 9:30?

I'm pretty sure people would crack up laughing and explain that you don't wander in off the street and do times like that. Well the same applies in marathons - sub 3 puts you in the top 2.5% of any normal field and is 70% of the WR time of 2:04, which would make you a top regional competitor.

I think what you may have been asking is "based on how fit I already am how hard is sub 3?" and the answer is very. While you may be aerobically fit you lack specifity of training, in other words your leg strength won't transfer, your joints lack the robustness they'll need for 26 high impact miles on tarmac and (unless you row in very long distance events) you won't have the stamina for 3 - 5 hours of 70 - 80% MHR effort.

Most sub 3 marathon runners have training plans consisting of an average of 60 - 80 miles per week for 16 - 18 weeks, peaking at several 100mile+ weeks. They include at least five long runs of 20 miles+, run 5 - 6 days per week and probably do doubles (a session in the morning and one in teh afternoon).

As you don't really run at the moment it would be very unwise to risk this intensity of effort. That said talented athletes are capable of amazing things so please keep in touch and let us know how you get on.

Right I see what you are saying. Your right the longest session that would complete in a week is ~90 minutes. My joints would not be up to it etheir,they would probably cave in after the first weeks training if I was to go flat out. I wasn't too sure how hard sub 3 hour pace was but I get the impression it isn't exactly easy. I do intend on doing the marathon irrespective of the likely hood of my breaking this barrier. I will have to wait until mid July until I can concentrate on training which will give me 14 weeks of training. I’ll have a look for some short term plans on the net. I’ll just do it for the laugh this year and give it socks the year after probably.

copacetic

oneeyedsnake wrote:

Right I see what you are saying. Your right the longest session that would complete in a week is ~90 minutes. My joints would not be up to it etheir,they would probably cave in after the first weeks training if I was to go flat out. I wasn't too sure how hard sub 3 hour pace was but I get the impression it isn't exactly easy. I do intend on doing the marathon irrespective of the likely hood of my breaking this barrier. I will have to wait until mid July until I can concentrate on training which will give me 14 weeks of training. I’ll have a look for some short term plans on the net. I’ll just do it for the laugh this year and give it socks the year after probably.

i wouldn't rule 3 hrs out altogether, you'll know a lot more once you get into the training and do a few long runs, if you are finding the 18-20 mile runs alright and can get through the training with no injury then 3 hours could be a target for you.

Having said that I'd normally run well below 7 mins/mile for 10ks and did the half marathon in the build up to 2005 in an easyish 1hr 38 which left me in good shape for the 3.30 mark in my first marathon. to cut a long story short 4.45 and just glad to limp across the line!

Sounds like you have the speed, if you do the miles you could do it. However as mentioned above, if you skimp on the mileage you'll get found out badly in the last 6 miles of the marathon.

hunnymonster

QFT, as the saying goes, the marathon is a race of 2 halves: a 20 mile warm up and 6.2 miles of survival.

thirtyfoot

Everyone seems to be skipping over the point he has run a 4:30 mile off little training. Now this is very good. If his natural ability for the mile equates to the marathon, 3 hrs would be a stroll in the park. Using IAAF Scoring Comparison Tables, a 4:30 mile equates to a 2:33 marathon or a 32:38 10k. This comparison doesn't mean that if you can run a mile in that time you can automatically run a marathon in a given time, its a table used to equate times between various distances.

For any talented athlete (4:30 off no training is talented!), running sub 3 is very attainable, presuming of course you give yourself enough time, training etc,

alano

oneeyedsnake wrote:

Have done a 4:30 mile before without any specific training

If this is actually true and you are not at the elite end of rowing in Ireland, you should consider changing sports. To run a 4:30 mile without any specific training would convert to being one of the best milers in Ireland if you trained specifically for the mile.

If you are already a fit to very fit person a sub 3 hour marathon is accomplishable between now and Dublin, so do not be put off aiming for that sub 3 hour. Your long training runs, a 10 miler or ½ marathon race along the way will give you an indication of whether it is possible or not.
Just follow a training plan like one in the IrishRunner magazine or join a club with marathon runners.

The best of luck!!

oneeyedsnake

Yeah I'd the 4:30 at one of the goal christmass day mile things a year and a half ago.I've been training about 10+ times a week for rowing for the past 3 years or so.I have had my vo2 max and oxygen up take measured a few times,last time my vo2 was 72.5 and my liters of o2 per min was 6.2 .I'll do the 5 miler in the park on the 14th next month.Hopefully I can get one or two 10 milers in before then.I'll let you guys know how I get on.

aburke

Have you raced any other races lately?

Your time over 10km or similar distances would be interesting, and perhaps a little more indicative of what you can achieve.

According to the McMillian calculator
You could run a 2:31 marathon with appropriate training.
This would be in the top 5 Irish runners in the DCM [I think]

Alan

Cerdito

If you wanted to see how fast you can do a mile now, you might be interested in this http://www.sparmilechallenge.com/

oneeyedsnake

aburke wrote:

Have you raced any other races lately?

Your time over 10km or similar distances would be interesting, and perhaps a little more indicative of what you can achieve.

According to the McMillian calculator
You could run a 2:31 marathon with appropriate training.
This would be in the top 5 Irish runners in the DCM [I think]

Alan

No I haven't ran compeditivly since the Goal mile a year and a half ago.I will be slowly increasing my running training over the next month.I will try to do the 5 miler in the park on the 15th of july.

aburke

oneeyedsnake wrote:

No I haven't ran compeditivly since the Goal mile a year and a half ago.I will be slowly increasing my running training over the next month.I will try to do the 5 miler in the park on the 15th of july.

Any update?

Your screen name wouldn't help much if I searched the results, so you'll just have to let us know yourself how you got on if you did this race.

lizanne83

I am always reading these threads and enjoy getting the superb running advice/tips from fellow runners! I have been running for just over 4-years and have mostly been running 6-7 days/week. I’ve entered the Dublin marathon (this will be my first) and just started following Hal Higdon’s online marathon training schedule a few weeks ago. Since starting this, I have disciplined myself to take the 2-rest days/week, which will give me the chance to do longer runs on 2 days with less injury risk due to rest days. However, even though my weekly distance is 40 miles/week, my long runs are still only 11 miles max. I maintain an average speed of 7.0-7.5 miles/hour (info from my GPS running watch). My question is this: with only 11 weeks countdown, should I have already run a constant half marathon distance (if not a 20 miler already) in training? I have run several 10k mini-marathons (time of under 40-mins) but never a half-marathon race and am hoping to do this. I would like to enter the half marathon in Phoenix Park on 22nd Sept but am afraid that if do this only a month before the big marathon, I will cause injury & be knocked out for real marathon! Or should I just run a long-distance myself in training? Currently living in NYC for the summer so between the limited looping of central park and the intense heat, long runs are quite difficult at present but returning to Dublin again at end Aug so will continue training in better running conditions then. Please advise if running half marathon so close to full marathon day is advisable or if I should do my own long run (20 miles) then should this be done as far from the marathon day as possible in case of injury risk? Sorry for multiple questions – but really want to do well in this marathon and definitely intend to do sub-4 hr!
www.lizannebarnwall.com

Peckham

You say you're following Hal Higdon's plan - it's a good plan, have faith in it! If you're sticking to his long run schedule then you're fine - 11 miles at this stage sounds about right, but I'd imagine his plan pushes you up quite a bit over the next few weeks.

As for the half-marathon in Phoenix Park, this is deliberately scheduled to accomodate the marathon runners. You have plenty of time to recover from it in time for the marathon even if you have a nightmare race and pick up a minor injury....but we don't talk about that!

Best of luck....it's a great feeling coming up Nassau Street to the finish line after all those months training!

lizanne83

Thanks for your advice Peckham. I’m not following Hal’s plan religiously, I’ve no probs getting the mileage in but as regards speed sessions, I really need to start incorporating those & break out of my steady comfortable pace running habit! I was just afraid of competing in half marathon just a month before full marathon in case of injury…. My arch collapsed bad after running the Bupa 10k last April and was out for ages and spent following months forcing runs + triggering pain again so went to biomechanics clinic & have had custom orthotics made and it’s been taking ages to break them in walking yet alone running and only got back into swing of things recently. I really don’t want to risk messing up foot again from a race so close to the big one! But will enter half marathon and hope for the best!

Bobby04

I've just read this thread with great interest, and have to give it a bump to plead with some of you to give an update on progress eg. any long training runs, races etc. completed and what sort of times?#

I did a few races last year, up to half marathon distance, with a view to going for the big one this year, but unfortunately repeated injury has me back to slowly building up stamina again. But the post about running half marathon "easyish" in 1:38 but then taking 4:45 for the big one has me very dismayed! What went so wrong? Anything shortcoming evident in your training (in hindsight!)?

HardyEustace

Don't know for definite but it sounds to me like the training didn't have enough long, slow runs. In the weeks before my first marathon (dublin) last year I did 3 x 16mi , 2 x 18mi over five weeks and then three taper weeks. My half and finish time were
02:14:39, 04:32:06

by contrast, my boyfriend at the time who was must faster than me but didn't have time/inclination to put training in, raced ahead of me at start and was well ahead at half time 02:02:28, but then lost all the strenght in his legs to finish just seconds before me
04:31:22

(and boy was he PISSED OFF, I got dragged home after three drinks, ex-boyfriend now (don't mind that) but still haven't forgiven him for being such a plonker on marathon day and ruining my first post marathon day.... B*ST*RD! :mad: )