Greater speeds in the future.....

meathman 007

Found this site and put in my line stats....
http://212.23.23.177/ADSL/default.aspx

My line stats:
Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 2048 256
SN Margin (dB) 10.00 19.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 49.50 31.00
CRC Errors 26491 406


So according to that site, if eircom upgrade the network to ADSL2+ , my line will be capable of a 6mb connection. Something to look forward to i guess - i wont hold my breath though.....

Sponge Bob

You are very already marginal for 2 mbit as it is . Consider yourself lucky if you ever get 3 mbits with adsl 2 . Currently you would be best off on a stable 1.5mbit connection rather than a marginal 2mbit connection if they offered that .

Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 2048 256
SN Margin (dB) 10.00 19.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 49.50 31.00
CRC Errors 26491 :eek: 406

back to the neat calculator though .

http://212.23.23.177/ADSL/default.aspx

We estimate that if using a rate adaptive up to 8Mbps service your maximum line speed will be:

If you are on a Max product, that uses the IP Profile system (sometimes called BRAS Data Rate) if you maintain the above line speed for 3 days or more your IP Profile would be set to:

If your service provider uses ADSL2+ we estimate you may manage line speeds of:
With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around:

Make that 5 not 6 . I would guesstimate your line is 3 miles long + or - 300 yards . Am I right ??????

Eircom will certainly reduce their support overload by going to adsl2+ . It will stably deliver what a lot of their customers pay for but do not currently receive.

Must pm that calculator to dub45

meathman 007

yes sponge bob i think im a good distance from the exchange - my connection is about 1.5mb but ive been very happy with it in the last few weeks - very stable when its wired to the modem. Just hope that i can receive better speeds in the future by whatever means necessary - adsl2 or whatever else helps....

Gonzo

that page doesnt seem to work for me, i put in the info and click and nothing happens

Sponge Bob

maybe you block scripts or java??

lucernarian

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52702504&postcount=49
And that was a stable line.

49 dB attenuation with 10 dB SNR means it's somewhat affected by noise/crosstalk. That line is the margin for 2 mbit ADSL with your current modem but it's the right side of it.

A large CRC count could simply mean it's been left on for a long time. The important info is the rate of CRC errors.

And using the formula that eircom use, that line is slightly over 4 km long. Though I think they over-estimate distances slightly. But the attenuation is the key factor. Low attenuation can mean thicker copper as much as a short line.

Sponge Bob

I forgot about uncle sam , he is at least 3.5 miles out in rural Cork on a former isdn line.

Gonzo

got it working now and it tells me:

maximum line speed adsl: 8128Kbps
adsl2+ speed: 12542Kbps

not sure that test wud be accurate but I think it may be many years before above speeds will ever reach me as eircom have done nothing with broadband in this country over past 18 months.

lucernarian

That couldn't be right. You can get the full ADSL speed, which would mean with ADSL2 modulation you can get 12 Mbps. Now ADSL2+ is the same except with extra frequency and basically that test is saying that you can only get 350 kbps out of all the frequencies between 1.1 and 2.2 MHz. I'm not an expert, but I can't see that happening in real life.

If attenuation per metre of frequencies are in any way proportional [with power levels and spectrum mapping and whatnot to be considered] as they increase, then 350 kbps is definetely shallow of the real mark.

Skittle

Not sure how accurate that calculator is. My Line Attenuation is 22dB and my SNR is 5dB. I currently get 3Mb solid, according to the calculator I should be getting 2.5Mb but with ADSL2 I'd be likely to get 18Mb:eek:

Must be wrong...

crol

even if the speeds predicted are technically possible (and some of the speeds predicted seem a little dubious); whether you'd get them or not is dependent on lots of factors including the adsl2+ line profile the isp chooses to apply to your port.

this line profile will choose an snr margin, amongst other things, which will eat into your speed but give you more resilience to line noise.

i think this graph provides a more sensible mapping of distances to speeds for adsl/adsl2+.

colm

kleefarr

I'm within a mile from my exchange.
Looking forward to any upgrade.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b347/KBL007/Scrapbook/adsl2estimate.jpg?t=1181989997

lucernarian

Skittle wrote:

Not sure how accurate that calculator is. My Line Attenuation is 22dB and my SNR is 5dB. I currently get 3Mb solid, according to the calculator I should be getting 2.5Mb but with ADSL2 I'd be likely to get 18Mb:eek:

Must be wrong...

At 5 dB SNR I would have expected a pretty unstable line. I've a feeling that it's Signal Margin, which is SNR plus 6 dB.

Otherwise...

According to the graph, which looks pretty plausible, that line of 22 dB attenuation is just about capable of the full ADSL speed of 8128 kbps. Yet your line can barely handle 3 Mbps. There must be some serious noise on that line.

That's definetely the download attenuation??

parasite

If your service provider uses ADSL2+ we estimate you may manage line speeds of: 21272Kbps
With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around: 18825Kbps

Gonzo

the graph linked above gives a very similar speed indiction of what i might get to the speed givin to me from the website calculator, im about 2km from the exchange, maybe a tiny bit more so 12megs wud be about the most i'd get anyway.

meathman 007

My line stats that i posted originally:

My line stats:
Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 2048 256
SN Margin (dB) 10.00 19.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 49.50 31.00
CRC Errors 26491 406

Just reseted the modem there and here are my results now:

Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 2048 256
SN Margin (dB) 11.50 19.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 49.50 31.00
CRC Errors 3 2

Better results.....?

lucernarian

Nah, you just reset the CRC counter, which could have been on for months. The key bit is the amount of CRCs per hour or per day.

I'm not sure how many you can have in an hour with out causing real problems, as most lines seem to have some amount of them or other.

Once you don't suffer disconnects, that's the main thing.

Skittle

To_be_confirmed wrote:

At 5 dB SNR I would have expected a pretty unstable line. I've a feeling that it's Signal Margin, which is SNR plus 6 dB.

Otherwise...

According to the graph, which looks pretty plausible, that line of 22 dB attenuation is just about capable of the full ADSL speed of 8128 kbps. Yet your line can barely handle 3 Mbps. There must be some serious noise on that line.

That's definitely the download attenuation??

They were the starts from my old D-Link modem, my new modem is a Linksys but I can't get line stats from it. The D-Link also estimated my loop distance as 4000ft.

ongarite

Looking good for me for Eircom DSL speed increase and excellent for ADSL2. I'm very close to my exchange in a new housing estate with new lines.
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7695/mylinestatshv2.jpg

rc28

Can someone tell me how I fill in the form? I dont know what db means and my router isn't listed in the link. I'm currently on a 1mb/s connection to eircom and about 1km from the exchange in the countryside. We were lucky that our evchange was upgraded last year because very few other areas around here have it.

ongarite

What brand router do you have. Look for line stats section or the like

rc28

ongarite wrote:

What brand router do you have. Look for line stats section or the like

Netopia 3347nwg

ongarite

From what I can remember about that modem, you have to get to the expert mode and look for statistics maybe....

Sponge Bob

expert mode, troubleshooting .

looks like this

http://www.netopia.com/support/hardware/technotes/CIR_011.html

the final screen on that page shows stats

rogue-entity

Sync: 3072Kbps
Attenuation Downstream: 18db
Noise Margin Downstream: 37db

Max RADSL speed: 8Mbps
Max DSL2+ speed (down): 21.4Mbps
Max DSL2+ speed (up): 18.9Mbps

IP Profile: 7.15Mbps

Roll on DSL2+

SimonMaher

Quick question....Is the downstream line attenuation Local or Remote? And is the SNR the local or the Remote SNR? Thanks!

Simon

rogue-entity

Downstream is from the remote DSLAM to your modem. It affects your download speed.

Line attenuation is the attenuation of the signal coming from the DSLAM (exchange) going to your modem. The higher this, the longer (or worse) your line is, and the weaker the signal being received. Its analagous to the volume of the signal, the lower the number, the higher the volume and easier it is for the modem to hear it, the higher the number, the lower the volume and the harder it is for the modem to hear the signal.

Noise Margin, is a measure of the interference on the line relative to the DSL signal being transmitted from the exchange. The higher this value, the greater the difference between the noise and the signal. Its analogous to having a conversation, with noises in the background, with a high SNR, its like you and a friend in the same room. With a low SNR, its like trying to speak in a club with the music up.

Hope this helps.

SimonMaher

rogue-entity wrote:

Downstream is from the remote DSLAM to your modem. It affects your download speed.

Line attenuation is the attenuation of the signal coming from the DSLAM (exchange) going to your modem. The higher this, the longer (or worse) your line is, and the weaker the signal being received. Its analagous to the volume of the signal, the lower the number, the higher the volume and easier it is for the modem to hear it, the higher the number, the lower the volume and the harder it is for the modem to hear the signal.

Noise Margin, is a measure of the interference on the line relative to the DSL signal being transmitted from the exchange. The higher this value, the greater the difference between the noise and the signal. Its analogous to having a conversation, with noises in the background, with a high SNR, its like you and a friend in the same room. With a low SNR, its like trying to speak in a club with the music up.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much for that. Nicely explained and makes a lot more sense to me now!

In terms of the tool on http://212.23.23.177/ADSL/default.aspx, would it be the Remote Line Attenuation and Remote SNR margin that I stick in the boxes, or the Local Ones. My AOLYNK DR814Q router gives me both.

Edit: Tiny brain thought about it and it would seem logical that local = downstream and remote = upstream. My local SNR margin is pretty low (about 11.5) and my Local Attenuation is pretty hight (52) so I reckon Im probably close enough to max here at just below 4megs.


Simon

exiztone

Results

Oh man, I want a slice of this ADSL2

rc28

I have a netopia 3347nwg and went into expert mode but cannot find the figure for noise margin (snr), how do I find this out? Also, when entering in downstream line attenuation do I put in a figure that looks like this : 59/29 or just 59?
Does anyone have a link to what all of these mean? Sorry, I'm a newb to all this but I'm thinking of upgrading to 2mb from 1mb on eircom and I wanted to know will I see much of an increase in speeds,and how will I find out if my line is able for it because last year when our area first got bb (we're in the countryside) eircom said we could only order 1mb as it wasn't able for higher? At the moment I'm getting these speeds which are crap for me but I think pretty good for a 1mb line:
[URL="[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/142567251.png[/IMG][/URL]"][/url]

thund3rbird_

Current Line Sync (connection) speed in Kilo bits per second (Kbps) : [B]3072[/B]
 
Downstream Line Attenuation (dB) : [B]5.5[/B]
 
Noise Margin, sometimes referred to as Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) : [B]41.0[/B]
 
 We estimate that if using a rate adaptive up to 8Mbps service your maximum line speed will be: [B]8128 Kbps[/B]

If you are on a Max product, that uses the IP Profile system (sometimes called BRAS Data Rate) if you maintain the above line speed for 3 days or more your IP Profile would be set to: [B]7.15 Mbps[/B]

If your service provider uses ADSL2+ we estimate you may manage line speeds of: [B]24294 Kbps[/B]
With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around: [B]21499 Kbps[/B]

2 or 3 hundred metres from the exchange

me wants adsl2+ now (with appropriate caps of course)

rc28

thund3rbird_ wrote:

Current Line Sync (connection) speed in Kilo bits per second (Kbps) : [B]3072[/B]
 
Downstream Line Attenuation (dB) : [B]5.5[/B]
 
Noise Margin, sometimes referred to as Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) : [B]41.0[/B]
 
 We estimate that if using a rate adaptive up to 8Mbps service your maximum line speed will be: [B]8128 Kbps[/B]

If you are on a Max product, that uses the IP Profile system (sometimes called BRAS Data Rate) if you maintain the above line speed for 3 days or more your IP Profile would be set to: [B]7.15 Mbps[/B]

If your service provider uses ADSL2+ we estimate you may manage line speeds of: [B]24294 Kbps[/B]
With ADSL2+ the maximum IP throughput is likely to be around: [B]21499 Kbps[/B]

2 or 3 hundred metres from the exchange

me wants adsl2+ now (with appropriate caps of course)

How did you find out the snr figure? I've listed my router make above and have looked through expert mode but can't find it.

Sponge Bob

expert > troubleshooting > dsl

thund3rbird_

rc28 wrote:

How did you find out the snr figure? I've listed my router make above and have looked through expert mode but can't find it.

access will depend on the modem/router - I've got an old ZyXEL modem

access via the 192.x.x.x IP
>> maintenance
>> diagnostic
>> downstream noise margin button gives the info

rc28

Ok I've found all my figures but do I enter in the upstream or the downstream figure?

rc28

Ok I've entered in the downstream figures and am now really disappointed, only managing 7767kbps if adsl2 implemented. When are eircom going to start putting in adsl2?

Also,I'm currently on 1mb and I'd like to know if I upgrade to 2mb will it make much of a difference seeing as it doesn't change much even with adsl2 put in?

lucernarian

You haven't specified the figures but you'd want a current SNR of 13-14 dB for downstream or upstream at the minimum to consider get most or all of the 2 mbit speeds. But sure eircom have already spoken on the matter and will not increase speeds. I wouldn't be dissapointed with that 7000 kbps odd ADSL2 speed. A lot better than what many people can hope for from eircom.

If your attenuation is actually 59/29, then that 7767 kbps figure is rather optimistic. Eircom won't let you upgrade to 2 mbps. ADSL2 will not improve your speed by 6 times at any distance.

rc28

To_be_confirmed wrote:

You haven't specified the figures but you'd want a current SNR of 13-14 dB for downstream or upstream at the minimum to consider get most or all of the 2 mbit speeds. But sure eircom have already spoken on the matter and will not increase speeds. I wouldn't be dissapointed with that 7000 kbps odd ADSL2 speed. A lot better than what many people can hope for from eircom.

If your attenuation is actually 59/29, then that 7767 kbps figure is rather optimistic. Eircom won't let you upgrade to 2 mbps. ADSL2 will not improve your speed by 6 times at any distance.

Hi thanks, can you look at my other thread where I have all my figures quoted:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055110161

Sponge Bob

somewhere between 1 and 2 is the answer .

unplug everything in your house ( including filters)

plug dls modem into main socket and run stats again till we see .

rc28

Sponge Bob wrote:

somewhere between 1 and 2 is the answer .

unplug everything in your house ( including filters)

plug dls modem into main socket and run stats again till we see .

I unplugged all the filters like you said and ran the speedtest and I got better download speeds:
[URL="[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/142982311.png[/IMG][/URL]"][/url]
I put in my new stats into the link at the start of this thread and got slightly higher results too. My stats hadn't changed though except I only had 1 crc error instead of 148!(is there somehting wrong with one of my filters?)
Btw my current connection stats say that i am only supposed to have a max of 1024 dowload speed but why is the speedtest.net result showing much higher than that?