AA vs huge over bet shove in 3-bet pot

phantom_lord

guy is 28/15/6, he's been on my table for about 30mins at least and I haven't seen him shove, but i'm 8 tabling so i might have missed it, i don't think he's very good.

I haven't 3bet light at all this session, dunno if he's noticed this at all.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($117.70)
CO ($261.58)
Button ($100)
SB ($112.35)
Hero ($170.22)
UTG ($91.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, 2 folds, Hero raises to $11.5, MP folds, CO calls $8.

Flop: ($28.50) T, 6, 5(2 players)
Hero bets $19, CO calls $261.58 (All-In), Hero...

valor

i insta call, your 3 bet is too small.

Moneymaker

I'd say he's spiked a set and he's afraid of all the draws, or he's on a draw himself. Tough to say without a read. I'd probably call.

phantom_lord

valor wrote:

i insta call, your 3 bet is too small.

should be what, 14/15?

BobSloane

He's aggressive enough to make it a call I suppose. You don't have the A of spades which makes a nut flush draw possible for him too. Think you should make it $15 or so preflop though

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah, bout 14/15
Hard decision to make, remember aces aren't that great.

shrapnel222

he's on an overpair QQ or KK and he thinks you're attempting a steal from the BB. No way he puts you on AA. I call, but seeing how deep you are folding is sensible too:p

Ste05

phantom_lord wrote:

should be what, 14/15?

When you're OOP this deep it should be alot bigger, at least 14/15, I probably just make it 16 to go and see what happens.

Then you need to bet more on the flop too, as played 23 or 24 would be a better figure.

I'm a complete calling station and I make far too many Hero calls, on iPoker I've seen lately that these huge overbet shoves are more often than not a huge hand (I should know I'm calling far too many of them :mad:), I don't know what Party is like these days, I probably call though :rolleyes: , there's so many draws he could have, although I don't think a fold would be terrible. His AF of 6 is leaning me heavily towards the call though.

Mr.Plough

call and cry after

dvdfan

I cant seen an overpair been played like this, as you said you havent been 3 betting lightly and he wouldnt expect you to be 3 betting lightly from the blinds anyway so if hes paying attention he should know its very possible you have AA-QQ here, id expect to be 3 bet on that flop not push if he had an overpair especially with stacks this deep.

Its possible a set played the hand like this but id still expect a set to RR here too because all in is possibly folding out hands like AA-JJ which he is already well ahead of and your 3 bet very much represents a high PP which should also ease his worries about you drawing to a flush.

I think its more likely a strong FD, maybe AKs, T9s, ATs, 87s, 98s or something like that and your 1.5/1 on the call, youve only $30 invested, if hes willing to get 170BB in with KK-QQ on a board as draw heavy as that when youve shown alot of strength preflop then youll surely get a better oppurtunity to get your money all in with him soon and hes stats suggest hes not a total donk so its a fold for me. Also hes PFA is 6.0 yet youve not seen him push so this dosent suggest hes reckless just aggressive.

ianmc38

Wtf is up with that 3-bet size? I'd make it about 20 there. As played I think it's a fold. When someone shoves for 200BBs in a spot like this, they usually have a set or a huge draw such as 78s that we're a coinflip against.

shrapnel222

so what happened anyway? what did he have?

CaptainNemo

I think a smaller overpair will just call here.

A lot of people will push like this with a bare flush draw if they are extremely aggressive or just donkeys.

He may have a flush and straight draw, in which case calling for your whole stack is a matter of personal preference.

He may have 2 pair or a set. I think 2 pair is more likely. If he has 56 then he doesn't want to see the board pair and would probably be happy to take it down. I think a set would probably just call or make a smaller raise.

However some very good and deceptive players do seem to make this kind of move with a set. I've read threads before discussing the merit of making massive overbets with a very strong hand.

If I didn't have much information on the player I think the right thing to do here is fold. If I have notes indicating a maniac or someone who likes to play flush or straight draws extremely strongly then it's probably a call. If it's a tight player then obviously it's a definite fold. If it's a tricky, unpredictable, good player then I also think it's a fold.

I saw a clip on YouTube of Brad Booth pulling a move on Phil Ivey in a very similar situation. Phil had reraised into 2 players, I think from the BB, and got one caller, Brad. The flop was something like 256 rainbow and Phil came out with a large bet. Brad then pushed all-in for a massive overbet, Phil thought for a few minutes and folded. (He had KK, Brad had 2-4).

jimmii

Ivey said he would have called with aces on that hand.

phantom_lord

I called fairly quickly, I think there's too many draws he could have for me to fold, plus there's a chance my weak c-bet might have induced a bluff, or he could be slow playing qq/kk or something.

anyway, I called, and hit an ace on the turn to crack his 56o.