What are your minimum requirements to shove, in position cutoff + 1, 10 handed game?

luckylucky

Afer seeing many posts on what your minimum requirements should be to shove, thought it might be interesting to have an example poll on it. Say you're table image is neutral, i.e. you would not be considered a rock or a maniac. Also say you are just about at the stage where if you are playing you are going to either shove or fold. I know people have different thoughts on when they should enter this stage, for this example let's just say you have around 9 Big Blinds left.

What are your minimum requirements to shove the cutoff + 1 in a 10-handed game, with both blinds having you covered.

I have made 5 groupings to choose from, I realise that what hands fit into what group is debatable but hopefully it suffices.

BuChan

what stage of the tournament is this at? in the late/near bubble people have tightened up signifigantly and i'll push more freely, also what type of players are in the blinds make a difference too but i guess that's just nitpicking. anyways i went with option 2 but i probably lean towards 3 in reality.

luckylucky

BuChan wrote:

what stage of the tournament is this at? in the late/near bubble people have tightened up signifigantly and i'll push more freely, also what type of players are in the blinds make a difference too but i guess that's just nitpicking. anyways i went with option 2 but i probably lean towards 3 in reality.

Both valid points, to keep it neutral, let's say you are fairly well into the tourney but still not quite at the bubble phase. Also let's say the blinds are neutral again neither tight or loose.

WH BONNEY

Are we to assume the pot has not yet been opened ?

Tar.Aldarion

Yes, i imagine so, It's always quality from me.

luckylucky

WH BONNEY wrote:

Are we to assume the pot has not yet been opened ?

Yeah, sorry meant to specify this.

con_leche

This depends on the situation.

Factors such as:

Your pushing frequency. If you vary your pattern/rythym and pushing requirements its much easier to get paid when you hit, and much easier to get the blinds to fold if you have air. Which is related to…

…Your table image.

Pay-out structure. How top heavy is it?

When is the next blind change.

Are there antes?

How often do you/have you played with these players.

Mental and emotional state of the blinds. What has happened at the table in the last few hands?

Experience level, and awareness of the blinds. Are they ‘good’ players, if so what calling range can you assign? Are they ‘bad’ players who can’t fold Ace rag or paint or sootedness for 70% of their stack?

Have they read HOH, or do they play online SnGs, so are they aware of the theory and maths?

Have the blinds got any gamble, or are they playing scared money?

What are the stack sizes of the blinds, and what are they hoping from from the tourney.


Also DO YOU FEEL LUCKY PUNK?

Marq

Atari Jaguar.

carfax

Marq wrote:

Atari Jaguar.

I forget what this means....link?

luckylucky

con_leche wrote:

This depends on the situation.

Factors such as:

Your pushing frequency. If you vary your pattern/rythym and pushing requirements its much easier to get paid when you hit, and much easier to get the blinds to fold if you have air. Which is related to…

…Your table image.

Pay-out structure. How top heavy is it?

When is the next blind change.

Are there antes?

How often do you/have you played with these players.

Mental and emotional state of the blinds. What has happened at the table in the last few hands?

Experience level, and awareness of the blinds. Are they ‘good’ players, if so what calling range can you assign? Are they ‘bad’ players who can’t fold Ace rag or paint or sootedness for 70% of their stack?

Have they read HOH, or do they play online SnGs, so are they aware of the theory and maths?

Have the blinds got any gamble, or are they playing scared money?

What are the stack sizes of the blinds, and what are they hoping from from the tourney.


Also DO YOU FEEL LUCKY PUNK?

Yeah I know there are all these extra factors that could affect the decision but as I said take it that your table image is pretty neutral and the blinds are the same, you and the two blinds are not regarded as being either rocks or maniacs. Your raising frequency in the last 20 - 40 hands is neither unusually high or low. Basically just take it as being an average of the typical circumstances, obviously in reality this will rarely be the case, but it should suffice for this poll I hope.

Anyway how would it affect your decision then, if you thought the blinds calling range was bigger than the norm, if you would typically raise with option C, would you now switch to just raising with option B or would you just raise as usual?

phantom_lord

I push atc with less than 10bbs. from the co it's an easy push, i think the amount of f/e you have is underestimated, some people will even fold aj on their bb to a 6/7bbs shove!

NickyOD

A9s+, ATo+, KQ, KJ, 66+.

Lazare

That's very tight for 9BB Nicky, nevermind the fact that we're in LP.

luckylucky

phantom_lord wrote:

I push atc with less than 10bbs. from the co it's an easy push, i think the amount of f/e you have is underestimated, some people will even fold aj on their bb to a 6/7bbs shove!

Not that it makes a huge difference but the postion is co + 1. Also while I agree that some peopole will fold AJ, some people will call with far less too. I would think AJ calls more often than not tbh, online anyway. But that's just my opinion, seems to be quite a differing range of opinions.

Personally I probably push at b(maybe a few more hands like 98s also), if I had a rock image i'd push at c and if I had a lag image I'd push at a (though possibly throwing a few more extra hands in)

carfax

I'm amazed at the amount of 'any 2' voters?

RoundTower

it depends.

Hectorjelly

I remember in the old days I always used to think the advice here was too tight (in similar ish tournament situations), now I think its a bit too loose. I dont get paticularly panicky when I get down to 8 - 10bbs, and I certainly dont push any two cards no matter what the situation (when up around the relative safety of 10bbs!)

Tar.Aldarion

Lazare wrote:

That's very tight for 9BB Nicky, nevermind the fact that we're in LP.

Meh, I'm the same, with suited connectors too!
I would like to win if I ever push.

mewso

Just as a matter of interest is it the accepted phrase to refer to it as CO+1? Just thought it made more sense to call it CO-1 as I do in the hand converter. In my mind CO+1 would be the button.