What was Jesus reason for coming to Earth?

BrianCalgary

One of our fellow posters made the following statement on another thread: Jesus came to unify the Jews under the nation of Israel (something he didn't do btw, but that is probably for another thread).

I find it interesting how people get these ideas. Jesus did not come to unify the Jews. We did a study in Sunday School this past fall and came up with the following resons as to why Jesus came:

Matthew 5:17 (New International Version)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 9:13 (New International Version)
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Matthew 10:34-35 (New International Version)
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law –

Matthew 20:28 (New International Version)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Mark 1:38 (New International Version)
Jesus replied, "Let us go somewhere else—to the nearby villages—so I can preach there also. That is why I have come."

Mark 2:17 (New International Version)
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Mark 10:45 (New International Version)
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."


Luke 5:32 (New International Version)
I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Luke 12:49 (New International Version)
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

John 5:43 (New International Version)
I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

John 6:38 (New International Version)
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 12:47 (New International Version)
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

Luke 4:42-44 (New International Version)
At daybreak Jesus went out to a solitary place. The people were looking for him and when they came to where he was, they tried to keep him from leaving them. But he said, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns also, because that is why I was sent." And he kept on preaching in the synagogues of Judea.

Any others that we missed?

Owen

At the risk of bannination, the title of this thread gave me a serious guffaw. Interesting topic though, will be watching it!

BrianCalgary

ned78 wrote:

At the risk of bannination, the title of this thread gave me a serious guffaw. Interesting topic though, will be watching it!

Whoops, get your mind out of the gutter.

Medina

Interrrrressstinngggggg

Matthew 9:13 (New International Version)
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'

If 'I' here represents Jesus, who is a facet of God (forgive me for the word facet) ..and God does not require sacrifice, but only Mercy....then His own sacrifice was unnecessary..by his own words He does not require it.


(im not saying God made a mistake..my belief is that he wasn't crucified anyway).

Medina

Also this one:

John 12:47 (New International Version)
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.

is somewhat in contrast to this:

John 5:22
22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.

Zombrex

I notice you haven't quoted anything from the Old Testament

Since one of the reasons most often quoted for why Christians on this forum believe Jesus was the Messiah was that he is supposed to have fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament (and the main reason the Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah since they don't think he did), it seems strange not to use the Old Testament as the basis for what Jesus was or was not supposed to do.

Using the New Testament is working backwards, since the writers of the New Testament, written long after Jesus was dead, already believed that Jesus was the Messiah and they worked from that basis in decided what Jesus did and obviously didn't get to do since he was killed by the Romans.

For example -

Isaiah 11:12
And He will lift up a standard for the nations
And assemble the banished ones of Israel,
And will gather the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.
Then the jealousy of Ephraim will depart,
And those who harass Judah will be cut off;
Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah,
And Judah will not harass Ephraim.


Jesus clearly didn't do this. The "second coming" is often used to explain this apparent contradiction between the unfulfilled prophecies and Jesus being the Messiah.

8kvscdpglqnyr4

"What was Jesus reason for coming to Earth?"

That's a question I've often thought about too - what do Christians think the reason is (I am not a Christian but I do find the question very interesting)?

God the father made the universe and also created humans (I’m assuming it doesn't matter if you believe in ID or creationism, Christians believe humans are the product of God the father).

Then after 13 billion years (or 6,000 years) God the father realised he had made a terrible mistake and these humans are not behaving themselves (how God can make a mistake is another question!). So to fix that problem, the best God the father could come up with was to artificially inseminate a woman so that he could have a presence on earth in the form of his son, Jesus.

Surely God the father could have waited 2000 years so that a better medium could be used for spreading the good word (TV, radio, newspapers, internet). 2000 years is nothing in the grand scheme of things – he had already waited 13 billion years without making an appearance. If God the father had waited 2000 years, then the whole world would be Christian, not less that one third as it is now.

I know if I saw some of the things today, that Christians believe happened 2000 years, then I’d believe too. I know the reply to this one: “Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed”
But wait a minute – put yourself in God the fathers position for a minute.
You create a HUGE universe.
You wait 13 billion years.
You seen the final product of all your hard work (Homo sapiens) misbehave. Bear in mind we have been misbehaving for 250,000 years … and you pick 2000 years ago as the time to show your dissatisfaction. You are God and this is the best you can come up with??

So back to the original question:
"What was Jesus reason for coming to Earth?"
... I cannot see any reason why God the father would do this??? It seems crazy to me. If God the father is all powerful, the surely he could come up with a better way to make his presence felt to all the people of the world at once.
He made us, so why not make us slightly different so he wouldn’t have to send his son down to us … and then to die! Sounds like a crazy way to go about solving the problem.

What am I missing?

Medina

Yes you are missing something.

All Prophets were sent as a Mercy from God (thanks be to God).

Man was created with free will which allows him to either worship voluntarily or to sin (sin being the state we are in when we refuse to worship - and im not talking just about prayers as "worship" but as "living a God fearing life")

Men have refused to worship from the beginning of their existence..God has over time sent messengers as reminders, as instruments to guide people back to the right path, and to apply new laws based on what is fitting for people and society..what is easiest for us.

God requires to make this easy for us not hard, which is why we are not left guessing. Of all the messengers, it is my belief that Muhammad was the last one, and his message was the final one, as it was more in-depth than any other message covering society, economics, government and daily life.

Christ was a pure man (in my belief) he was created by God without the intercession of a man but this does not make him automatically a part of God himself or divine. He was sent to the Jews as they had strayed from the laws of Moses and David , whose laws were changed by man over time.

He brought a message of good news and his main message was a message of love.


Quotes from Quran (Translation by YusufAli):

002.087 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!


002.136
YUSUFALI: Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." (islam means submission)


003.003
YUSUFALI: It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

003.045
YUSUFALI: Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
003.046
"He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

003.047
She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

003.048
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,


003.049
YUSUFALI: "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

003.050
YUSUFALI: "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

003.051
YUSUFALI: "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

003.052
YUSUFALI: When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. ("Muslim" meaning "one who submits to the will of God")
003.053
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."

003.054
YUSUFALI: And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

USUFALI: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

003.056
YUSUFALI: "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

003.057
YUSUFALI: "As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."

003.058
YUSUFALI: "This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."

003.059
YUSUFALI: The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

JimiTime

Medina wrote:

it is my belief that Muhammad was the last one, and his message was the final one, as it was more in-depth than any other message covering society, economics, government and daily life.

Why do you believe this? I.E. Why Muhammad and why you feel his message was more in-depth? surely if Christ spoke the truth, economics etc is totally irrelevant? Surely, if his message of Love was recieved by us, there is no need for other instruction in relation to treating our neighbours? Daily life? What exactly does Jesus' message lack for living daily life, and where does muhammads teachings surpass it?

Zombrex

JimiTime wrote:

Why do you believe this?

Is the answer not in the quote?

"it is my belief that Muhammad was the last one, and his message was the final one, as it was more in-depth than any other message covering society, economics, government and daily life."

mossieh

Greysen Future Safflower wrote:

Surely God the father could have waited 2000 years so that a better medium could be used for spreading the good word (TV, radio, newspapers, internet). 2000 years is nothing in the grand scheme of things – he had already waited 13 billion years without making an appearance. If God the father had waited 2000 years, then the whole world would be Christian, not less that one third as it is now.

Excellent point. he could have avoided a lot of misunderstandings by sending down jesus now and having him appear on the late late/oprah/jonathan ross to spread the good news directly to the masses. Sending someone down to judea 2000 years ago was poor marketing, at best.

Man I'd pay good money to see jesus go head-to-head with richard dawkins on questions and answers.

Medina

002.212
YUSUFALI: The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will.

006.070
YUSUFALI: Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah: if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah.


018.056
YUSUFALI: We only send the messengers to give Glad Tidings and to give warnings: But the unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order therewith to weaken the truth, and they treat My Signs as a jest, as also the fact that they are warned!

018.106
YUSUFALI: That is their reward, Hell, because they rejected Faith, and took My Signs and My Messengers by way of jest.


021.002
YUSUFALI: Never comes (aught) to them of a renewed Message from their Lord, but they listen to it as in jest,-

023.115
YUSUFALI: "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?"

025.041
YUSUFALI: When they see thee, they treat thee no otherwise than in mockery: "Is this the one whom Allah has sent as a messenger?"

045.009
YUSUFALI: And when he learns something of Our Signs, he takes them in jest: for such there will be a humiliating Penalty.


045.035
YUSUFALI: "This, because ye used to take the Signs of Allah in jest, and the life of the world deceived you:" (From) that Day, therefore, they shall not be taken out thence, nor shall they be received into Grace.

Zombrex

Medina wrote:

I thought you knew everything Wicknight

No I only pretend to impress the ladies

Medina

***** giggles playfully *******


sorry its not working :eek:

Medina

JimiTime wrote:

Why do you believe this? I.E. Why Muhammad and why you feel his message was more in-depth? surely if Christ spoke the truth, economics etc is totally irrelevant? Surely, if his message of Love was recieved by us, there is no need for other instruction in relation to treating our neighbours? Daily life? What exactly does Jesus' message lack for living daily life, and where does muhammads teachings surpass it?

I answered this already but someone is busy deleting posts...I suppose we did go off topic :rolleyes:

mmmm i will reply again if this post does not get deleted, if it does then can the deleter please remove this question as the lack of answer makes it look like i didnt answer...

so this is kind of a test-post.....

thanks

ok here is my reply again from what i can remember:
Jimitime: I see nothing lacking within the message of Jesus, just that the message of Muhammad contains more details on how to implement practically the teachings of 'Love thy neighbour as thyself' and 'Love one another as I have loved you'.

Also I shouldn't have linked the two statements with the word 'as'.

As Brian suggests perhaps you'd like to discuss with me on Islamic forum? Or PM me...

BrianCalgary

Thanks Medina
The thread went way off topic and I think this question is better discussed in the Islam forum.

BC

JimiTime

Hi Brian, Any chance of some Mod jiggery pokery to move the above question to the Islam forum as suggested?

Medina: Yes, I would like to discuss.