quick omaha hand... should this be my standard line!?

ditpoker

Green Joke Poker New Richmond 0.25/0.50, hand converted by the iPoker Converter (http://www.talking-poker.com/hands/converter.aspx) at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

Button Edmar ($37.65)
SB yangbo520 ($216.40)
BB poker00555 ($45)
UTG ditpoker ($58.15)
UTG+1 moronesthanmost ($48.35)
CO bobwx ($42.20)

Preflop: ditpoker is UTG with Ah 4s Th 8h
ditpoker calls 0.50, moronesthanmost calls 0.50, bobwx calls 0.50, Edmar calls 0.50, 1 fold, poker00555 raises to 2.75, ditpoker calls 2.75, 2 folds, Edmar calls 2.75.

Flop (11.00) 3h 9c Jh
poker00555 bets 11, ditpoker raises to 44, 1 fold, poker00555 moves all-in for 30.75.

Turn (96.75) Qs

River (96.75) 5d

poker00555 shows Js Jc 9s 6h
ditpoker shows Ah 4s Th 8h

ditpoker wins 96.75 with A straight, Queen high

on that board, with that flop, is best line to call, push!? what is best line and why? i dont always push here, and i dont always call here, i dont wanna become predictable, but as a general rule, what is the optimum line. the why part is particulary interesting for me... thanks!

DapperGent

Fold preflop. Flop play is fine.

In general I like raising because you now have a huge hand and I'd like to get my money in on the flop, I think the likelihood of a hero call from a preflop raiser with an overpair (which you're ahead of) is far more likely than a bet again from that hand on any turn, there's a lot of other big draw type hands that can be out there on a J9x flop too most of which you will be crushing unless they're paired up as well.

There's an arguement for calling to entice the third player into the hand too and I think it would be important to mix between jamming and calling when you've flopped a big draw and there's a chance you can make the action three way. So in that sense I guess there isn't a blatantly optimal line for the hand at least to my mind. If the pot was heads up I think raising is better though mostly because folding big draws on the turn in Omaha to a pot sized bet makes me want to puke.

In general just fold preflop though. Hand is muck.

mewso

Agree 100% with Rossa. Particularly that you should not be playing that hand pre-flop UTG. After that I like the re-raise on the flop and you pretty much have to call the push.

BigCityBanker

Fold that bag of bolliks utg.. Flop play is fine.

kpnuts

Fold preflop in any position, especially UTG. I don't ever even complete from SB with this bag of spanners. But now you've flopped a monster and you're shortstacked, get them in without delay as played.

eoghan104

Fold preflop everytime against every player and in every position!!!! Awful starting hand. As played flop play is fine.

Lafortezza

Complete with this hand in the SB.

DeadParrot

Everything pretty standard here
Fold preflop as mentioned once or twice above.

Only bone of contention is I'd complete SB...but I'm rubbish

DapperGent

I also think this hand is worth completing in the SB.

RoundTower

open this hand on the button.

ditpoker

hmmm... i'm getting alot of 'fold preflop'... i'm guessing my stats would be pretty high for seeing flops. my stack is very often up and down like a yoyo, i'm playing alot of flops. What are good starting hands, i have my own ideas of what i like to see a flop with but i'm guessing i'm getting it wrong an awful lot.

(kp, i've 116BB's... is that shortstacked?)

5starpool

Good hands? Ones that coordinate we with each other. Large pairs double suited, running cards double suited or not, Any suited A hand is worth playing from late position or SB in an unraised pot I think.

Hands that have a dangler (one card detached from the rest) such as 9TJ3 or 345T can get you in a lot of trouble too. I like to see a lot of flops in Omaha too, my VPIP in full ring on Stars is around 37%, but that is with me trying to tighten up somewhat. Regretably my live VPIP is often much higher.

imalegend

I would play this hand in late position but pass it utg.But im a bitof an omaha donk and play way too many hands when i play live.

And classic eoghan saying he would fold that hand.Id love to see him fold that even utg!!!:D

Ok for someone like me and it seems dit aswell what advice would you give to tighten up pre-flop hand selection and pre-flop play.Especially interested in what kp has to say on this as i know he is a good solid player.

Lafortezza

5starpool wrote:

my VPIP in full ring on Stars is around 37%, but that is with me trying to tighten up somewhat. Regretably my live VPIP is often much higher.

My VPIP for 6max is lower than this, another very good omaha player's VPIP is even lower than mine at 6max over a couple of thousand hands.

People limp and call raises way too much.

5starpool

Yep, I know I am too loose. I get bored easily. If I played online more than once every month for a few hours then I might do something about it.

imalegend

lafortezza wrote:

People limp and call raises way too much.

yep unfortunatly im one of these people!

eoghan104

imalegend wrote:

I would play this hand in late position but pass it utg.But im a bitof an omaha donk and play way too many hands when i play live.

And classic eoghan saying he would fold that hand.Id love to see him fold that even utg!!!:D

Ok for someone like me and it seems dit aswell what advice would you give to tighten up pre-flop hand selection and pre-flop play.Especially interested in what kp has to say on this as i know he is a good solid player.

Just because I give a piece of advice that I think is right doesnt mean I do it myself......!!! Im way to loose pre-flop in Omaha and Id say my VPIP live is about 85-90%.......

Id imagine that Imalegend and 5starpool would agree that they are somewhere near the same live? Its a serious leak but I just have no dicipline!

Any ideas on how to combat this?

imalegend

just buy in for 3k means you can afford 2 play every hand i reckon is the answer!

Lafortezza

eoghan104 wrote:

Its a serious leak but I just have no dicipline!
Any ideas on how to combat this?

If I'm tempted by a marginal hand I usually ask myself "Is this a bag of ****e?"

More normally I think whether I will be comfortable playing the hand and calling preflop if a LP person raises.

kpnuts

ditpoker wrote:

hmmm... i'm getting alot of 'fold preflop'... i'm guessing my stats would be pretty high for seeing flops. my stack is very often up and down like a yoyo, i'm playing alot of flops. What are good starting hands, i have my own ideas of what i like to see a flop with but i'm guessing i'm getting it wrong an awful lot.

(kp, i've 116BB's... is that shortstacked?)

Remembered I'd forgotten to come back to this the other day when I posted on the other thread...

Sorry, I just glanced the stacks, 58 bucks looked like a shortstack to me at a glance but yes you have full buy-in. Still you're not deep deep, I would consider playing the monster draw a bit cagier if you and opponent(s) had say 3 buy-ins each, that's all I meant really.

And I agree with RT that I would actually open this hand on the button shorthanded if I am better than opponents post-flop. I still wouldn't complete from SB though!