Do you need a spiritual partner/lover?

Dagon

I've been with my girlfriend for a year now. I had thought that when you fall in love with somebody, it would be unconditional and that you wouldn't need them to be spiritually inclined in order to find happiness in the relationship.

However, sometimes when I think of marriage or kids I feel a little bit unsure about going ahead, unless there is the sanity of spiritual guidance for both of us in life, in marriage, in child rearing... it is one thing to persue this path for yourself, and find great relief and happiness through it...but questions arise when you enter into a long term relationship, and you want to be able to share the peace and the happiness of the spiritual teaching that you practice with your partner. You do not want to keep this to yourself.... you will want this healing to permeate throughout your potential family and to heal deeply every step of the way. If two people practice, then the power is even greater.

I suppose I had this idea that if I was in a relationship with someone, they would magically start to share my meditation practice after they had seen how much it benefits me. But when this dream doesn't come true, what is the best way to proceed?

raido9

Dagon wrote:

However, sometimes when I think of marriage or kids I feel a little bit unsure about going ahead, unless there is the sanity of spiritual guidance for both of us in life, in marriage, in child rearing...

If two people practice, then the power is even greater.

It could be even better if you both had different spiritual views, it would give your kid some perspective and make your child think about their faith, rather than blindly accepting whatever their parents believed.

Dagon wrote:

I suppose I had this idea that if I was in a relationship with someone, they would magically start to share my meditation practice after they had seen how much it benefits me. But when this dream doesn't come true, what is the best way to proceed?

Never go into a relationship wanting someone to change. Never a good idea.
Tbh, I dont feel its a major issue, my gf is a believer, I'm not. Its never been a problem for us. We respect each others views (even though we both think the other is wrong )

Nevyn

Dagon wrote:

I've been with my girlfriend for a year now. I had thought that when you fall in love with somebody, it would be unconditional and that you wouldn't need them to be spiritually inclined in order to find happiness in the relationship.

There are people that this becomes a deal breaker in thier relationship, and
it can be quite a stumbling block.

I could not be in a long term relationship with someone who did not have a spiritual aspect to thier life or at very least an understanding of how important the spiritual side of my life is to me and can be supportive of it.

Dagon wrote:

..but questions arise when you enter into a long term relationship, and you want to be able to share the peace and the happiness of the spiritual teaching that you practice with your partner. You do not want to keep this to yourself.... you will want this healing to permeate throughout your potential family and to heal deeply every step of the way. If two people practice, then the power is even greater.

This is very true but I would see that not as two people sharing the same spiritual path but as two people on parrell spiritual paths as each persons spirituality and path is there own.

Dagon wrote:

I suppose I had this idea that if I was in a relationship with someone, they would magically start to share my meditation practice after they had seen how much it benefits me. But when this dream doesn't come true, what is the best way to proceed?

Magically, that depends on your definition of magic.
Have you invited them to join you ?
Have they asked questions about what it is you do ?
Have you offered them a lend of a book ?

You can not force or coerce someone onto your spiritual path indeed this can be a horrendous thing to do to a person but you can have conversations about it and be proactive in making your partner aware of how important it is to you.

I know at the end of the day I need someone who is spiritually compatible to me as my partner or at the every least aware, understanding and supportive.

Dagon

>Have you invited them to join you ?

Yes. But she has no desire to do the course. She would like to try meditation but she doesn't seem to have any real interest...

>Have they asked questions about what it is you do ?

Not really. Usually I bring up the subject and she will listen intently, and respectfully. But she isn't usually interested enough to initiate deep conversations on the subject.

>Have you offered them a lend of a book ?

Yes. I gave her the book that changed my life... it's just a small book, but it is of big significance to me because I think it holds some amazing ideas, and helpful meditations. It's only around 30 pages and she still hasn't finished it It ironically sits beside a gigantic pile of glossy (completed) fashion/celeb/gossip/girly mags, all of which are only a couple of months old... lol.

>You can not force or coerce someone onto your spiritual path indeed this >can be a horrendous thing to do to a person but you can have conversations >about it and be proactive in making your partner aware of how important it is >to you.

True. I would not force anyone to do anything. And I've made my partner aware of how deeply important this is to me. I don't know if she realises how important... but I am unsure about dedicating my life to someone who does not want to find, to endlessly persue, "the real".

>I know at the end of the day I need someone who is spiritually compatible to >me as my partner or at the every least aware, understanding and >supportive.

As part of my practise, I don't drink or take intoxicants, and once I was joking about how I'm "going home to watch football and drink cans of beer" and I heard my partner making the comment "I wish you *would* drink a few cans of beer". And that makes me wonder if she understands or respects where I'm coming from at all... I should note that she likes having a few drinks and being intoxicated.

maitri

Hi!

You don't think this could possibly be a mutual problem about acceptance?

It seems to me you both have a need to be accepted just the way you are and that you don't feel this need is really met.

You seem to want very much to be accepted (and understood?) for your spiritual path and your choice not to drink.
She probably needs to feel accepted for not wanting to follow the same path as you, and for having a beer, and I should think: for reading glossy magazines when she feels like it.;)

Actually both of you have problems accepting the other person's choices it seems. On the other hand both of you want to feel accepted.
I am just saying what I see from the outside. I cannot really know for sure whether I'm right or not, of course, so please don't shoot me if I'm totally wrong.:o
If the main problem here is acceptance don't you think you might get the same problem with a more "spiritual" gf or with future children?

Maybe it would be a good idea to start working with unconditional self -acceptance?
I always feel it is much easier to accept other people when I really accept myself (also the parts of me that are not so "good"). And self-acceptance seems to be an everyday task...

BTW, I don't know whether you and her are right for each other or not. Only the two of you can know that. It is really never possible to see from the outside what is (or isn't) between other people.
(And I am not the right person to give advice about close relationships anyway - as I generally find such relationships much scarier than tigers and poisonous spiders, but like Dr House - who is not too good at close relationships either - at least I can tell what I observe.)

Good luck!:)

Dagon

Thanks maitri, that was a really nice post. I practice daily metta (loving kindness) meditation, but I will try some acceptance stuff as well now

Funny thing is, when I wasn't in a long term, close relationship, all this stuff seemed really easy to understand and even put into practice. But when there is increased closeness with another human being, things seem to become exponentially more difficult, and it can be very testing.

I suppose another thing that happens is that the self is revealed at another level, and sometimes you start to see things in yourself that you don't want to see, and you have to deal with those things!

I think different people are willing to live with different levels of stress, suffering and unhappiness. I'm not willing to settle for stress and misery in life at all, I want to eliminate it and work on myself to do that endlessly (often by accepting the tough times, but maintaining the inner peace throughout the storms), and I've been successful to some extent. The big problem is when you are living your life side by side with a person who is willing to accept unhappiness and misery into their lives... and even welcome it at times (or so it appears to me), all subconsciously of course. But my awareness of that can't directly help the other person. So this can be hard to watch, or live with.

Marksie

From a tantra perspective it is all about accepting the other and vice versa. I think that is whats important in any relationship as maitri put it very well.

I would never expect someone who doesn't share my philosophy to practice it. However, by applying what i do alone and incorporating it into the intimacy of a realtionship, without any expectations from the others side, then often they will join with me in aspects which they find comfortable. That deepens and increases communication, openness and intimacy. In the end its not only the similarities which bind two people together it is the differences and the celebration and/ or acceptance of those differences.

So if she is interested in meditation, then that is where you begin, just that, nothing more as it is what she is comfortable with. It is part of your life you can share with her.

In the end Dagon all you CAN do is examine the self and maintain the inner calm, you are not responsible for these aspects of your lovers life, she has to come to terms with them in her own way. You may not realise it but in projecting this image of a calm inner self you may very well be having a positive effect.

Again maitri has it right in that we don't know what the dynamic is occurring. I cannot adequately phrase the english i need to get the point across... but it has to do with just BEING not judging or wishing change, but just supporting.

I would also begin to ask myself is why i have those issues arising that I feel that harmony can only be achieved if two people follow exactly the same path within a long term relationship.

I hope i am making a modicum of sense :-)

maitri

Dagon wrote:

Funny thing is, when I wasn't in a long term, close relationship, all this stuff seemed really easy to understand and even put into practice. But when there is increased closeness with another human being, things seem to become exponentially more difficult, and it can be very testing.

Yeah... isn't that funny... :rolleyes:

I remember somebody once saying that having a family is more or less like living with your own private Zen Teachers - 'cause like good Zen Teachers they keep pushing all your buttons, showing you just where your weaknesses are, your "unfinished business", so to speak. She said children are even better at that.

Dagon wrote:

I suppose another thing that happens is that the self is revealed at another level, and sometimes you start to see things in yourself that you don't want to see, and you have to deal with those things!

Yes. Isn't that horrible!

Dagon wrote:

I think different people are willing to live with different levels of stress, suffering and unhappiness. I'm not willing to settle for stress and misery in life at all, I want to eliminate it and work on myself to do that endlessly (often by accepting the tough times, but maintaining the inner peace throughout the storms), and I've been successful to some extent.

How do you understand the concept of "maintaining inner peace throughout the storms"?
Do you see it as always having calm emotions and the storm being "outside" of you?
Or do you see it more like sometimes experiencing "negative" feelings, discomfort etc... as part of life, yet without totally identifying yourself with those feelings (or believing in the thoughts that accompany them) - and maybe while somehow keeping contact with some still point (storm center) somewhere "inside" of you?

Or perhaps you have another understanding of it?

joseph dawton

This is a very interesting thread. Personally I think that partners must complement each other, this might mean that they are very different or very similar depending on the individuals, either way if there are clashing behaviour patterns they are are often very hard to fix or accept.

Expectation is the death knell of so many relationships, we expect our partner to conform to our our ideas in so many areas of life. Modern life is all about high expectations - big car, big house, loads of trinkets to distract us from our inner lives, instant gratification, obsession with image over substance, I could go on all day...

Anyway I have been guilty of unrealistic expectations myself, letting go of that gives you a greater chance to actually live life instead of thinking of all that is not right about it. It's strange but I find that the less l expect of myself and other people and the less I worry about what they do or don't do the happier I am, and when I am happy life seems to take care of itself. I guess this is vaguely a recapitulation of Taoism but it seems to work for me most of the time.

www.electricpublications.com

kshiel

Myself and my husband would have a totally different out look on spiritual paths as in he would have the same attuide as your gf Dagon. But we are together now 14 years two beautiful childeren and have learned to respect and support each others outlook on life even though we both find that difficult at times.

Respect, acceptance, empathy and communication are all key factors in any relationship imo and feel that regardless of religion, creed etc there will always be barriers and closed doors which will always need to be opened and got over through out any relationship regardless.

I hope you and your gf find a common ground to work and deal with these issues.

Sometimes opposite do actually learn to live side by side and be quite good for each other as well

Jackie laughlin

It is not possible for someone with a life-conuming passion to live with a person who does not share this passion.

Someone of course could have an interest or many interests which a wife or husband did not share; that would make an interesting mix. Problems arise when that interest moves down the slope towards zealotry - and it makes no difference if it is meditation, spirituality, religion or football.

dreamingoak

Hi Dagon. This is an interesting one! In my relationship, I am the one with a life consuming spiritual path, and my partner is the couch-sitting beer - drinker! lol it used to drive me mad. It dosnt help that I teach spiritual and personal development, and am a clairvoyant reader. My whole life is deeply devoted to the Divine. His is devoted to the guitar. We moved in together with each other and my 8 year old daughter last year. i'll tell you one important thing.. never be your partners teacher, its a totally messed up dynamic. After much battling, we've finally settled down to a mutually supportive, accepting and respectfull relationship. He meditates a bit once in a while. I occaisionally have a glass of wine. My daughter is delighted. I think we have to let our path inform how we personally behave and relate to our partners, and let their different' but no less valid path inform how they relate to us. And you know its all about learning about ourselves, and relaxing into Being together.

Jackie laughlin

Dreamingoak,
I assure you that I'm not being rude but you seem to have expressed in a paragraph what most teenagers express in, "Whatever!"

6th

My wife doesn't share my passion for the paranormal but wow does she support me!

Nevyn

Jackie laughlin wrote:

Dreamingoak,
I assure you that I'm not being rude but you seem to have expressed in a paragraph what most teenagers express in, "Whatever!"

I disagree.

dreamingoak

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

It is not possible for someone with a life-conuming passion to live with a person who does not share this passion.

Someone of course could have an interest or many interests which a wife or husband did not share; that would make an interesting mix. Problems arise when that interest moves down the slope towards zealotry - and it makes no difference if it is meditation, spirituality, religion or football.

Thankyou Thae.

Hi Jackie, I did not at all intend to dismiss your opinion out of hand, but just to show how my own experience is different, and supports the threads question.. Can we who are - without wanting to sound too, well, mad- consumed by the fire of the spirit, ie, a zealot, live happily with a person who is not that?

In my life, I manage to do just that. Also, I think it is an important point, that, when we welcome an intensely spiritual life, that life will respond by giving us challenges to our compassion. So this is precisely the kind of relationship we are drawn into. I say, It can be done, and peacefully, restfully, and make us all better, kinder, gentler, and more accepting people. Take up the gauntlet!
Lol, I try not too sound too zealotlike!

Jackie laughlin

Dreamingoak,
You may not be a true zealot! The zealot tends to have two distinguishing features. Firstly, there is a tendency to spend the bulk of his or her life "devoted" (talking, thinking etc) to some aspect of what for most people would be a mere part of life's richness. Secondly, zealots don't doubt, don't try to find alternatives and don't take kindly to having their belief questioned. My view is that it is impossible to live closely with a zealot and it doesn't matter whether the zealot is into MBS, religion, patriotism or football!

dreamingoak

hm. with that interpretation of 'zealot' you may well be right. I think these kinds of relationships may come into our lives to give us some perspective when we may be sailing a little close to that! I wouldn't have said at the time that that was me, but I might have been getting a little fanatical all right! lol fanaticism is never a good thing, never good to lose the ability or will to question, especially to question ourselves. Sometimes we can be a little uptight and rigid, and these relationships serve to lossen us up, so that we can become a little more flexible and compassionate.
Namaste to all of us!

Jackie laughlin

D'oak,
I think I may be putting you back into the zealot file! If I met you and fancied you and you said that I'd come into your life - or worse, been sent into your life - in order to give you some perspective, I'd be out the door and fast.

dreamingoak

Jackie laughlin wrote: »

Dreamingoak,
I assure you that I'm not being rude but you seem to have expressed in a paragraph what most teenagers express in, "Whatever!"

Quote: (from the 'is the new age fad over?' thread)
Originally Posted by Jackie laughlin
How come I get abused for a gentle leg pull when Sapien loves "memoplexes"?
(reply from moderater)
By itself, I would have seen the "hyperbole" remark as just a witty reply (and I did laugh when I read it ). I am more concerned by the dismissive tone on many of your posts where you seem to just dismiss ideas as foolish or fancifull, bizzare, ridiculous, ludicrous etc, or in this case hyperbole.


LOL, Jackie, firstly, i'm a laydee, like yourself, so that would be a bit of a shock, and secondly, is that not the purpose of all relationships? For both partners to gain some perspective? That is what all the great teachers tell us. We are all drawn, rather than sent together to see our own issues mirrored in an other, to learn and grow together..........
That is why as dagon said at the beginning, it was so much easier when he was alone. no mirror.. all the easier to ignore all his subconscious stuff, his limiting beliefs. Its the same for all of us. Relationship to a person is as fire to the sword, or as Rumi said, 'That which is to shine must endure burning'.

And here we have a perfect example. Being accused by you of being dissmissive, i noticed that a lot of your own posts, including the last one are dismissive, to me and others. I'm your mirror.

Namaste x

Jackie laughlin

D'oak,
Thank you for the "X". I'm a man. AND, you researched my previous contributions to Boards! I'm flattered!

I don't mean to be dismissive and I regret being seen in such a light. I do mean to be provocative, argumentative and - when I can manage it - funny.

I have an interest in the MBS "movement". Indeed at one time I thought it had socio political significance. I guess I could avoid being seen as dismissive. I mean, I could argue in detail in many of the threads here but I'm sure it would not be allowed and if it were, I would be on eggshells, trying to be "moderate". (This unwillingness to allow fortright argument is not confined to this section of Boards. The same attitude prevails over in the Politics section and in others. Indeed, it is an attitude in society today. Passion coupled with reason is deeply unpopular!)

I ventured into this thread because I've seen marriages break up on incompatibility over (among other things) born-again Christianity, communism, "spirituality" and, yes, football. In all cases one partner was not an interesting, complementary companion, a joy with whom to discuss differences, but a dogmatist with an overwhelming attachment to one subject.

The choice is not between isolation and a zealot. Both of those are best avoided.

I think I deserve another kiss!

Dagon

Many months later, and after much thought and meditation, I am still unsure... recently I've managed to organise my thoughts on this a little better. But thoughts are only part of it... thoughts are actually completely useless in matters of the heart. Thought gets you nowhere but it can drive you insane. Sometimes I feel it's driving me insane...

So I've been listening to my heart a lot, and I am getting different messages at different times.

"Relationship to a person is as fire to the sword, or as Rumi said, 'That which is to shine must endure burning'."

This is very true. But sometimes I don't know how much burning there should be.

My partner is such a wonderful, beautiful, positive and amazing being. She is trying *so hard* to do her best. She is giving so much to this relationship... she even went and did hypnotherapy during the summer and it has helped her greatly, and has helped our relationship.

But still I have times where I wonder should I end it. And then times when I never want it to end...

On a recent meditation course I was plagued for hours with a racing mind full of thoughts about our relationship... future projections, doubts, fears, ideas of what my needs are, thoughts that something isn't right and may never be right, thoughts of other female meditators who I thought would be better life-partners for me (people who I don't even know)...

Then I go back to my girlfriend and everything is back to normal. If she knew I'd even had these thoughts she would be very upset, so I don't talk about it. In any case, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the relationship on the surface level, so there isn't really much I can complain about.

And to remove my doubts even more, recently myself and my gf were in a pub just chatting and having a laugh about something, and a random lad who was sitting near had been observing us. He asked me "is this your first date?". I asked him what he meant and he said "cos if it is, you're doing amazing and getting on amazing". I said we'd been going out over a year and he said "wow, that's even better. Keep it alive". And at a wedding recently, a friend commented that she could see myself and my gf being together for a long time, and that shoud could tell by the way we listen to each other and let each other talk in a conversation, we had great love and respect...

Which is true.

So why all the doubts?

I feel at times it's like I just want somebody to share more things with. It's like my girlfriend can't see or feel everything I see, like we're on different levels sometimes. And that makes me feel alone...

Nevyn

You can't expect your partner to be all and be everything to you and meet all your needs.
Have you tought about finding others who share your type spirituality to share such things with them ?

Dagon

I totally agree Thaedydal, and I've accepted that. Yes, I have a group of people who share my spiritual path. And subconsciously, I wish my girlfriend had more of their qualities at times... (just more chilled, relaxed, worry free, not concerned with material stuff so much, etc)... I know that's terrible, but it's how I feel sometimes.

I've examined myself and have gone through the question of "am I being selfish". But I have given so much to the relationship, and have put a lot of work in. I have sacrificed little parts of myself, we both have, in order to be happy and peaceful together. I don't think I am selfish, and I realise that a partner is not going to be anything and everything.

Maybe I'm just suffering from a bad case of relationship ambivalence. Think I'm going to read a book called "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum :cool:

One thing I do know though; trying to change my partner is not a good option. If you keep wanting to change someone then it's best to let them go free and find someone you don't want to change...

dreamingoak

dagon, i'm not sure if your still out there... lol! but if you are, do you think this 'relationship ambivilence' and all of this obsessing about it is a dorm of self protection? you know, more time spent thinking about it, less time actually just being present in it?, and interesting that you mention worries of not being seen and understood, that kind of lonliness. Someone told me once, 'you can never leave till you've left with love' which means, you have to go into in through the heart to be in it to stay or to truly experience it and move on.

Your could try the chant ' om tara tuttara tura svaha' which helps with all of this stuff, especially the anxiety about lonliness.

karynp

I can understand where your coming from,my partner is totally the opposite to me and my spirituality.
he listens when i drone on all excited over the different things that happen for me and fully supports my trainings,courses ect,helping me pay for them all. Theres been many times when i have questioned our relationship and met others whom i felt were perhaps more suited to me.
but i have discovered along the way that i change many times,i raise my vibrations at a quicker pace to him,and its at these times i question where we are going,then it all settles back down again until i grow a little more.However,we are good together,he keeps me grounded and stops me from permanently spending my time in the spirit world. I feel i need that type of relationship and perhaps you do too. We meet many many people in our lives who are part of our soul group,we connect strongly then mistakenly think its love of our life,we should be together when in fact,the truth be known,its all simply part of our learning to love ourselves and others. Nobody is perfect and relationships are never easy,theres a saying that says falling in love and knowing love is falling in and out of love many times,with the same person.
If i may say so,i feel the issue is more with you than her and most relationships where both persons are full of spirituality,psychic abilities ect eventually become competitive and fizzle out.
I betcha if you think back of all the times you thought someone else was perfect for you.......are you still good friends with them? do you still see them and be around them? probably not all of them. the trick is to try to learn that when you make a deep spiritual connection with a person,its not always because you are meant to be with them,opposites attract and if you sit and think about it,im sure your partner is good for you,we all need a seperate part of our lives from our partners,other people we can shareour hopes and thoughts with but we also need to be kept grounded.Stop trying to fix something that is not broken and also understand that on your spiritual path YOU are going through many changes and as soon as you begin to understand yourself more then what you see as faults in your relationship will soon disappear.I bet your partner is there for you when you need her.
anyway,hope this helps a little.

dryroasted

Relationships arent always about sharing views. You have to remember that your relationship isnt about oneness, it is about growing together on the same path but also growing as INDIVIDUALS.

You are lucky to have met someone where you are both pondering the marriage and children as your next step of evolution together. That is good. I feel you arent looking at the signposts that life is showing you. Maybe this is a time of reflection on your life in general and not just your relationship. Where can you see your life in 5 years time. How is your day to day relationship, Do you compromise together on issues or Do you argue and disagree.

I do feel that the secret to a happy and successful marriage is the ability to accept your own and your partners fallacies, attitudes, it isnt all about blind love, it is accepting your wife to be as the person she is, and can she or does accept you as who you are, Personal space is also required in a healthy relationship, we all need head space, time for our own reflection, time for pause, and also time to be grateful for all that we have, including the love and affection of our partners'.

This is food for thought but I have personally learned this myself the hard way. You also need to understand that women think differently to me and most men dont get this. Dont be tyrannical, or a dictator be rational and considerate but forthright for your own needs and requirements, again compromise is the key.

I hope this is helps.