Qualifiers Draw ?

Benedict XVI

Anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is scheduled for.

Round 1 is supposed to contain teams that do not reach their provinsiaol semi final, so from my reckoning there are only two games to be completed to meet that criteria, Dublin v Meath and Louth v Wexford.
I would guess they will do it next weekend, but if any of the above is a draw they I hope they will not postpone it just for the sake of it.

Also whoa re the teams in the draw so far , I can old see 9, plus 2 from above makes 11, are there not supposed to be 16 ?

In so far

Mayo
Limerick
Longford
Westmeath
Kildare
Armagh
Fermanagh
Cavan
Down

cruiserweight

Benedict XVI wrote:

Also whoa re the teams in the draw so far , I can old see 9, plus 2 from above makes 11, are there not supposed to be 16 ?

In so far

Mayo
Limerick
Longford
Westmeath
Kildare
Armagh
Fermanagh
Cavan
Down

Division 4 teams go straight into the Tommy Murphy Cup! Heres hoping for Mayo vs Armagh in the 1st round

smashey

The losers of Donegal/Tyrone and Derry/Monaghan will be in there.

Benedict XVI

cruiserweight wrote:

Division 4 teams go straight into the Tommy Murphy Cup

That true, but you still cannot make 16 out of what is left, the list I included did not include the likes of Clare, Carlow etc.

BTW who are the Div 4 teams next year anyway ?

Smarmore

Well there's 33 counties that take part.
16 in semi-finals leaves 17.
5 lost out because of Tommy Murphy leaves 12+New York leaves 11.
If Wexford lose, which hopefully they will, it will leave 10.

It was always going to be messy with the new Tommy Murphy rule and I don't know how they're going to cope with a possible odd number but those numbers seem to be correct. Even if it's 10 that leaves 5 winners playing the 8 losers from the semis. That leaves an odd number of 13 for round 2. They should have just left it alone but I'm guessing the last team out of the pot may receive a bye into the next round.

Smarmore

smashey wrote:

The losers of Donegal/Tyrone and Derry/Monaghan will be in there.

No they don't, they're semi-finals, they fall in for round 2.

cruiserweight

Smarmore wrote:

Well there's 33 counties that take part.
16 in semi-finals leaves 17.
5 lost out because of Tommy Murphy leaves 12+New York leaves 11.
If Wexford lose, which hopefully they will, it will leave 10.

Wexford aren't in division 4! Won't matter anyway it should be Louth for the qualifiers

smashey

Smarmore wrote:

No they don't, they're semi-finals, they fall in for round 2.

My bad.

Benedict XVI

So no one actually know how this si supposed to work ?

NO cahnce of an explination on the GAA website either

Smarmore

cruiserweight wrote:

Wexford aren't in division 4! Won't matter anyway it should be Louth for the qualifiers

I know they had a weird way of working it but Wexford finished 3rd in 2B. Thought that would mean they would stay there but obviously not. Anyway it's nice to know they will get another crack at it after we dispose of them

I don't know why the GAA feel the need to keep messing with the format of the league and Championship. They're getting nearly as bad as UEFA now. Overcomplicating things for themselves and everybody else. :mad:

Smarmore

Benedict XVI wrote:

So no one actually know how this si supposed to work ?

NO cahnce of an explination on the GAA website either

http://www.gaa.ie/page/football_qualifier_structure.html

They obviously don't keep their site up to date very well do they? Giving one team a bye is the only alternative I can see.

cruiserweight

Smarmore wrote:

I know they had a weird way of working it but Wexford finished 3rd in 2B. Thought that would mean they would stay there but obviously not. Anyway it's nice to know they will get another crack at it after we dispose of them

Nope division 3. It is nice to know that your insistence that Louth will beat Wexford is based on an extensive knowledge of Wexford football

blackbelt

Wexford for the win IMO.

cruiserweight

blackbelt wrote:

Wexford for the win IMO.

I thought that nothing would convince me that Wexford would be in trouble, but then I saw this

blackbelt

Lap it up CW,it won't be funny come 17th June up until 15:30 when you're two points down then score a goal in the last two minutes to get away with the win

bookiebasher

the biggest joke of all time is that if the offaly footballers fail to beat either dublin or meath they are in the tommy murphy cup and not the qualifiers.
3 all irelands in the last 35 years.3 under 21 finals winning 1 and 2 minor finals winning 1 ...and u have longford and westmeath in the qualifiers and havent an all ireland between them???

aidan24326

bookiebasher wrote:

the biggest joke of all time is that if the offaly footballers fail to beat either dublin or meath they are in the tommy murphy cup and not the qualifiers.
3 all irelands in the last 35 years.3 under 21 finals winning 1 and 2 minor finals winning 1 ...and u have longford and westmeath in the qualifiers and havent an all ireland between them???

In all fairness Offaly are probably the team I'd have least sympathy for.

For a start, there's no way Offaly should be in Div.4 but they've no-one to blame only themselves, they knew the deal from the outset.

Secondly, Offaly's record in the qualifiers is abysmal, even getting dumped out of it by Carlow a couple of years ago, and going down to Laois last year while scoring a whopping 0-4 in the process.

blackbelt

Nah,I can't say I feel sorry for Offaly.They haven't been playing well and are on top in the lower tier teams.A history of success in the last 35 years means nothing to the GAA.Its current form that decides where your team go.

I've never been a big fan of Offaly football.Some of their matches either excited me or put me to sleep.To be honest,the only time I could ever watch them recently is against Dublin,Laois and Kildare as they are local derbys but they gave a good account of themselves against Dublin last July until Dublin ran away with it.

The system is a bitch but was known about before the league started.The only reason for this was to give the League more importance.

Dublin played Division 2 football when they won the 95 AI.Offaly could use this system for more motivation to stay out of it.

bookiebasher

point taken aidan but back a few years ago dublin had a terrible run in the league under tommy lyons i think and under the present system would be in the same boat...whould u still have the same opinion in that case ??

blackbelt

Well we are in Division 2 next year even if we finished mid-table so retrospect can be thrown out.Its a bit unfair but the team just has to get on with it.

Breezer

I know every team knew about it beforehand but the system is a bit ridiculous. I'm all for giving more importance to the league but a league is supposed to be a measure of consistency. Basing something as big as this on one league season isn't great; I think 3 seasons would have been fairer.

But of course that throws up the question of which 3 seasons would be used? The last 2 plus the current one? That would put teams who in the past used the leage as a warm up (as many did) at a disadvantage. If we start from this season and use the next two, that would take forever before the structures could be changed.

But I guess this is the system, everyone knew about it and there's no point complaining.

K-9

smashey wrote:

The losers of Donegal/Tyrone and Derry/Monaghan will be in there.

The serious disadvantage of the Munster and Connacht championship V. Ulster and Leinster.

It's not a pro Ulster or anti Munster debate, just Waterford, Donegal and Tyrone being in provincial semi-finals and Kerry getting into an AI last 12 [Guarenteed] after beating Waterford.

Does seem despite the Qualifiers, Kerry, Cork, Mayo and Galway do have an unfair advantage. Same as it ever was really.

K-9

Smarmore wrote:

Well there's 33 counties that take part.
16 in semi-finals leaves 17.
5 lost out because of Tommy Murphy leaves 12+New York leaves 11.
If Wexford lose, which hopefully they will, it will leave 10.

It was always going to be messy with the new Tommy Murphy rule and I don't know how they're going to cope with a possible odd number but those numbers seem to be correct. Even if it's 10 that leaves 5 winners playing the 8 losers from the semis. That leaves an odd number of 13 for round 2. They should have just left it alone but I'm guessing the last team out of the pot may receive a bye into the next round.

So you could potentially have a team that gets a bye in 2 rounds of the qualifiers getting to the last 15/14 and then if there's a bye, 3 rounds!

So if it's 14/15 how do we get to the 4 needed for the qualifiers against the losing provincial finalists? Does seem mad!

Benedict XVI

Feck it, I'm off to Hogan Stand for the answer to this one

Benedict XVI

Benedict XVI wrote:

Anyone know when the draw for the qualifiers is scheduled for.

Round 1 is supposed to contain teams that do not reach their provinsiaol semi final, so from my reckoning there are only two games to be completed to meet that criteria, Dublin v Meath and Louth v Wexford.
I would guess they will do it next weekend, but if any of the above is a draw they I hope they will not postpone it just for the sake of it.

Also whoa re the teams in the draw so far , I can old see 9, plus 2 from above makes 11, are there not supposed to be 16 ?

In so far

Mayo
Limerick
Longford
Westmeath
Kildare
Armagh
Fermanagh
Cavan
Down

All explained here courtesy of Hogan Stand, and it makes sense
http://www.hoganstand.com/MessageBoardForm.aspx

I was basing my post on what my glossy Irish Examiner wall chart says i.e.

Round 1 = Eight games involving teams beaten in the first round or quarter-final stage in respective provincial championship

Where it should read

Round 1 = Eight games involving teams beaten in the first round, quarter-final or semi-final stage in respective provincial championship

Draw is on June 24th

Team will be
Armagh
Cavan
Down
Fermanagh
Kildare
Limerick
Longford
Mayo
Westmeath
losers of Dublin v Meath
2 from Louth, Wexford and Laois
losers of Monaghan v Derry
losers of Tyrone v Donegal
losers of Galway v Leitrim
losers of Sligo v Roscommon

Christ that will be tough

smashey

smashey wrote:

The losers of Donegal/Tyrone and Derry/Monaghan will be in there.

Ahem.

cruiserweight

Benedict XVI wrote:

All explained here courtesy of Hogan Stand, and it makes sense
http://www.hoganstand.com/MessageBoardForm.aspx

I was basing my post on what my glossy Irish Examiner wall chart says i.e.



Where it should read



Draw is on June 24th

Team will be
Armagh
Cavan
Down
Fermanagh
Kildare
Limerick
Longford
Mayo
Westmeath
losers of Dublin v Meath
2 from Louth, Wexford and Laois
losers of Monaghan v Derry
losers of Tyrone v Donegal
losers of Galway v Leitrim
losers of Sligo v Roscommon

Christ that will be tough

Ah that makes more sense, but just to complicate things again If Leitrim lose to Galway they go into the Tommy Murphy Cup, where as if Galway lose they go into the qualifiers. Also if Offaly lose in the Leinster semi final they go into the Tommy Murphy Cup, but if they win Dublin/Meath go into the qualifiers. So there might be an uneven number yet.

gucci

cruiserweight wrote:

A If Leitrim lose to Galway they go into the Tommy Murphy Cup, where as if Galway lose they go into the qualifiers. .

you sure about that?leitrim are in division 3 next year.....so does that not mean they will be in qualifiers....should they lose to galway??

kevmy

Benedict XVI wrote:

Team will be
Armagh
Cavan
Down
Fermanagh
Kildare
Limerick
Longford
Mayo
Westmeath
losers of Dublin v Meath
2 from Louth, Wexford and Laois
losers of Monaghan v Derry
losers of Tyrone v Donegal
losers of Galway v Leitrim
losers of Sligo v Roscommon

Christ that will be tough

Hope to God Mayo don't get Armagh, Dublin/Meath, Tyrone/Donegal anything else we've a decent chance to get a run going and a bit of confidence up.

I see you could end up with Mayo and Galway, Donegal and Armagh, Down and Cavan, Kildare and Meath, Longford and Westmeath, Monaghan and Down.
Can this happen ie. Meath beat Kildare, Dublin beat Meath, Kildare drawn against Meath, Meath beat Kildare. Therefore Kildare will play two games against same opposition and get beaten twice by their neighbours. Is that not against everything the qualifiers are about

K-9

Is it me, or does that draw not look right!

What happens Dublin/Meath if they lose to Offaly in the Leinster Sem-Final?

That would leave 17 teams.

Smarmore

Seems a bit unfair that the losers of Ulster and Connaught semi-finals go into round 1 while losers of the Leinster and Munster semi-finals go straight through to Round 2.

cruiserweight

gucci wrote:

you sure about that?leitrim are in division 3 next year.....so does that not mean they will be in qualifiers....should they lose to galway??

My bad, rte haven't updated the division 2A table on their website for the delayed games. So yeah Leitrim will be in the qualifiers if they lose

cruiserweight

kevmy wrote:

Hope to God Mayo don't get Armagh, Dublin/Meath, Tyrone/Donegal anything else we've a decent chance to get a run going and a bit of confidence up.

I see you could end up with Mayo and Galway, Donegal and Armagh, Down and Cavan, Kildare and Meath, Longford and Westmeath, Monaghan and Down.
Can this happen ie. Meath beat Kildare, Dublin beat Meath, Kildare drawn against Meath, Meath beat Kildare. Therefore Kildare will play two games against same opposition and get beaten twice by their neighbours. Is that not against everything the qualifiers are about

Yeah the rule changes are a bit weird this year

Irish Independent wrote:

THANKS to a rule change from last season, teams that have already met in their provincial football championships will have to play again if they are drawn to meet in the upcoming All-Ireland Qualifiers.

This means that if Donegal lose to Tyrone this weekend, and were drawn to play Armagh again, there would be a mouthwatering rematch of their earlier meeting.

Before this, teams that had met previously could not be drawn against one another again in the Qualifiers, but this rule change will make the Qualifier draws even more nailbiting this summer.

The first Qualifer draw will be televised from Carrick-on-Shannon on Sunday week, after the Galway/Leitrim Connacht semi-final.

Another key difference in this year's Qualifiers is that, with teams given automatic Tommy Murphy Cup designation, no team has special 'home' status anymore, so whoever is drawn out of the hat first gets home advantage.

The draw involves all football teams who do not reach a provincial decider and the GAA could yet need to add in one preliminary game, if the Offaly footballers make the Leinster football final.

As a Division Four team they should go to the Tommy Murphy Cup when beaten, but reaching the Leinster final would earn them a spot in the later stages of the Qualifiers if then defeated, and thus necessitate an extra game to even out the numbers in the back-door series.

The Qualifiers commence on July 7, as does the Tommy Murphy Cup, but it is not yet clear if the draw for the latter will be made at the same time.

K-9

Smarmore wrote:

Seems a bit unfair that the losers of Ulster and Connaught semi-finals go into round 1 while losers of the Leinster and Munster semi-finals go straight through to Round 2.

Also Munster and Connacht Semi-finalists have an unfair advantage.

E.g. Kerry get into last 12 by beating Waterford while Sligo/Roscommon do the same by winning one game.

Benedict XVI

kevmy wrote:

I see you could end up with Mayo and Galway, Donegal and Armagh, Down and Cavan, Kildare and Meath, Longford and Westmeath, Monaghan and Down.
Can this happen ie. Meath beat Kildare, Dublin beat Meath, Kildare drawn against Meath, Meath beat Kildare. Therefore Kildare will play two games against same opposition and get beaten twice by their neighbours. Is that not against everything the qualifiers are about

Your right, it’s a load of bollix if you ask me, the chances are at least one of the combinations above will happen.

Why the hell did they remove the stipulation that team could not meet again until the semi-final anyway.

I know it as been said here before and I know it was voted on a passed by congress but this is the most half arsed attempt at solving a problem (fixture congestion) I have ever seen by any organization.

I hope I am wrong and the qualifiers throw up some different yet competitive match-ups.

patmac

Jeez my head hurts reading this, I don't think teams that have met each other in earlier rounds can play each other again, so expect a very confused Michael Lyster doing a lot of explaining whilst the draw is going on.

smashey

patmac wrote:

Jeez my head hurts reading this, I don't think teams that have met each other in earlier rounds can play each other again, so expect a very confused Michael Lyster doing a lot of explaining whilst the draw is going on.

They can this year. It is an open draw.

Smarmore

Benedict XVI wrote:

Team will be
Armagh
Cavan
Down
Fermanagh
Kildare
Limerick
Longford
Mayo
Westmeath
losers of Dublin v Meath
2 from Louth, Wexford and Laois
losers of Monaghan v Derry
losers of Tyrone v Donegal
losers of Galway v Leitrim
losers of Sligo v Roscommon

Christ that will be tough

Hold up!!

That can't be right. It should be the losers of Louth and Wexford only. Unless you're saying the losers of Louth/Wexford v Laois go into the draw as well. That means the loser from this semi-final goes into Round 1 and the loser from the other semi-final goes into Round 2. How is that fair? And if it doesn't work like that it only leaves 15 teams

K-9

Smarmore wrote:

Hold up!!

That can't be right. It should be the losers of Louth and Wexford only. Unless you're saying the losers of Louth/Wexford v Laois go into the draw as well. That means the loser from this semi-final goes into Round 1 and the loser from the other semi-final goes into Round 2. How is that fair? And if it doesn't work like that it only leaves 15 teams

I think was taken from Wiki! Oops. Accurate as ever.

I'm sure if Dublin/Meath lose Leinster Semi they'll be in Rd 1 same as Laois/Louth/Wexford. Doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Smarmore

Seanies32 wrote:

I think was taken from Wiki! Oops. Accurate as ever.

I'm sure if Dublin/Meath lose Leinster Semi they'll be in Rd 1 same as Laois/Louth/Wexford. Doesn't make any sense otherwise.

But that would leave 17 teams in Round 1 Why couldn't the GAA just leave it well enough alone? This system seems ridiculous and unfair on a number of different levels not just towards the Tommy Murphy Cup teams.

K-9

If there's 17, 2 teams will picked to play off against each other to make 16.

Smarmore

Seanies32 wrote:

If there's 17, 2 teams will picked to play off against each other to make 16.

That's even more unfair than giving one team a bye. Would there be enough time to have this playoff and give both teams a 2 week break? How much of a break will there be between the playoff and the round 1 game. Will the team who is involved in the playoff only have a 1 week break? It's an awful system.

K-9

Smarmore wrote:

That's even more unfair than giving one team a bye. Would there be enough time to have this playoff and give both teams a 2 week break? How much of a break will there be between the playoff and the round 1 game. Will the team who is involved in the playoff only have a 1 week break? It's an awful system.

The problem with a bye would be you'd have 9 teams going through to play off against each other, so another bye. It's an unfair system no matter what they do.

The old system was much better, not perfect but probably the best without introducing a complete open draw.