To rake or not to rake that is the question.

Kendriver

Hi boardsters,

Can I open up a discussion topic on rake and the way its currently being charged in cash games.I read an article recently which opined the view that the only way forward for cash game rake was to charge a playing time as opposed to a % of each pot.This is an area that I would like to get feedback from people and hopefully from this come up with an arrangement whereby all clubs operating cash games could provide for their costs and profit margin and at the same time be viewed as giving value for money for their players.

Ken

RoundTower

link to the article?

BarrierReef

This is how they charge in all the big poker rooms in Vegas, At the change of dealer they collect a charge from each player sitting at the table ( $6 / half hour for 5/10game in the Bellagio if I remember correctly )

In my Opinion this is a very fair way of charging as the cost of the game is shared amongst all players and it isn't just the loose players paying constantly. I have played in various cash games and the game very definitely over raked ( Irish Open really springs to mind ! )

Just my 2 cents !

Kendriver

RoundTower wrote:

link to the article?

www.bluffeurope.com

May 2007 Edition

RoundTower

in America bigger games are usually time charge, smaller games are usually rake.

I like the idea of collecting a time charge every hour or every half hour in principle, it spreads the charge around and doesn't encourage tight play. However it can hurt the game. People decide they will leave when the collection comes round who otherwise would have kept playing.

bops

i'm organising a weekly 5/5 game in a poker club soon

my idea is a 25$ sitdown fee (it's a 500$ min buy-in), with 5$ rake taken from pots of 200$ or more


anyone like/dislike ??

cardshark202

Thats a good point and was quite prevalent in the games in the crown in melbourne. In fact I usually decided to leave the last hand before the next collection as once I paid it I felt compelled to play for the next hour.

cardshark202

bops is that 5/5 NL or ROE and is it uncapped? If so where is it?

jacQues

Kendriver wrote:

Can I open up a discussion topic on rake and the way its currently being charged in cash games.

I dislike the current method being used in most Irish casinos. They rake per-pot, which is fine, but they don't cap. Thus, on an active table they can easily rake over €200 per hour (talking €50 game with 1-3 blinds here). With the average buy-in at €100, this is killing the field too much IMHO.

I'm fine with either: €5 rake per player per half hour,
or: 10% per-pot rake with a €4 cap.

However, I'm unhappy with: 4% per-pot rake with no cap.

jacQues
(2-cent hamster)

bops

cardshark202 wrote:

bops is that 5/5 NL or ROE and is it uncapped? If so where is it?

5/5 NL in New Ross Co Wexford
plan is every tuesday @ 10.30pm
rake will be capped @ 5$
ie zero rake for pot of $199 - $5 rake for pot of $10,000


just thought there is an opening for a decent weekly game that won't be killed by rake

hopefully starting next week

EDIT - i'll start a new thread about it later

soz if i appear to be thread hijacking

mdwexford

i think Reggie meant was the buy-in capped, duh

cardshark202

Yah thats what i was getting at. Might try get down there some time after vegas. Especially cos its in wexford.

5starpool

Bops has started a seperate thread about this in the tournie subforum if ye want to discuss it there. Back on topic pls.

bops

cardshark202 wrote:

Yah thats what i was getting at. Might try get down there some time after vegas. Especially cos its in wexford.

yep though that until i saw the other post - buy-in will be capped at 1k

gl in vegas

phantom_lord

jacQues wrote:

I dislike the current method being used in most Irish casinos. They rake per-pot, which is fine, but they don't cap. Thus, on an active table they can easily rake over €200 per hour (talking €50 game with 1-3 blinds here). With the average buy-in at €100, this is killing the field too much IMHO.

I'm fine with either: €5 rake per player per half hour,
or: 10% per-pot rake with a €4 cap.

However, I'm unhappy with: 4% per-pot rake with no cap.

jacQues
(2-cent hamster)

any place I've played cash in the rake is capped, and there's a set amount taken off the table every half hour, usually around 12yoyos. wherever you play seems like a pretty bad spot.

jacQues

phantom_lord wrote:

any place I've played cash in the rake is capped, and there's a set amount taken off the table every half hour, usually around 12yoyos. wherever you play seems like a pretty bad spot.

Really? Uncapped 4% at all casinos here in Galway city and in Wexford town. The Fitz in Dublin did seem to cap indeed.

jacQues

RoundTower

uncapped 4% makes a game tough to beat IMO, it has a big effect on the game.

hairyfairy00

The rake is capped @ €10 in the 4 Aces JacQues and it's 3% not 4%. There have been massive pots pre-flop and the €10 is taken out and nothing else, i don't mind players asking how much of a rake i have taken out if they think too much has been taken. Normally they do the maths and see the correct amount was extracted, in all my time working there no one has ever complained that the rake is unfair.
A lot of playerse prefer the way we do it compared to the 1/2 hr - 1 hour rent that other places take.

jacQues

hairyfairy00 wrote:

The rake is capped @ €10 in the 4 Aces JacQues and it's 3% not 4%.

I'm supposed to be a maths genius according to Mensa, above is not to my experience. I've no doubt that you do this correctly every time, as you are a good dealer. As a matter of fact, I've never ever seen any problem what-so-ever when you dealt.

hairyfairy00 wrote:

in all my time working there no one has ever complained that the rake is unfair.

Most people wouldn't complain and just go elsewhere. I know for a fact that people did complain about rake issues, abeit it was mostly about tournament rake. Not going there though, not even in pm.

jacQues

Kimsang

There have been massive pots pre-flop and the €10 is taken out and nothing else,

i'm curious whether this is the norm around ireland. Do you rake pre-flop pots? do you rake un called bets? (doesn't happen here in letterkenny)

I have had alot of experience with 5€/half hour in casinos (limerick/letterkenny at the beginning) and collecting it from players was a nightmare sometimes. If a player hadn't been sitting there for a full half hour when the rake clock went off some players would kick up a storm. Also players that aren't getting/hitting cards quickly see their 100€ stack diminish with the €5/hour even if they're not playing hands. People also used to leave just as the rake is to be collected so even though you had 6 people playing for half an hour 2 leave when it's time to collect the rake.

IMO the €5/half hour rake system doesn't work.

hairyfairy00

No we don't rake un called bets, should have explained it a bit better when writing earlier.
When i mentioned taking the €10 i left out that they go down to the river and even though betting is still going on after the flop we don't take anymore than €10, i just prefer to take the rake early on so the players involved can see me do it and know it has been done, i let them know that the business is done and no more will be taken. If we did continue to rake there would be a huge amount taken out.
Hope JacQuse doesn't think i was havin a go just lettin people know that the pots aren't raped!!

CelticPhantom

Here is how I see it :
Raking the pot penalises the winning player.
Time-based rake penalises everyone equally.

With a time-based rake losing players are going to get p!ssed off and leave quicker. It is a reminder to them how much they are down money.

As a winning player (I assume all boardsies are?) are you prepared to pay more (raking the pots you win) than if you are time-raked, in order to keep losing players focussed on the game (and still in it) rather than thinking about their money?

If you are then where would the break-even point be?

As a beginning player I would prefer to have the pot raked, since the cost for me learning to play is limited to how much I will lose on the hands I play. (Assuming I don't have beginners luck).

What level of experience do you need to achieve before you would prefer time-rake? (If you would prefer it.)

RoundTower

it means looser players pay more, not winning players. Most boardsies seem to be on the nitty side so I think the opposite of what you are saying is true, they should prefer rake to time charge whether they are winners or losers.

Tar.Aldarion

I prefer to penalise the looser players, what roundtower said.

Jacques wrote:

I'm supposed to be a maths genius according to Mensa

Yet you thought j10s was better than 910s against aces. :P