Puncture Woes

AlanD

New bike owner, little or no puncture repair experience. I can do big car wheels, just not little narrow bike wheels.

Had a pretty standard puncture on the back tyre. A thumb tack. Bought some patches (scabs I think) and found the whole, sanded the area, put on the patch, rubbed it tight, blew it up, no leak, replaced it. Rode it and it seemed fine for a good few hours. Went out to go for a ride, it was flat again. Repeated the process, found the patch was leaking very slowly. Thought maybe the adhesive didn't take cos of the heat over the weekend.

Was just going to scrap the patches and buy a new tube, but the wheel punctured is the back wheel and I haven't a clue how to take the wheel off with all the gears and stuff down there. Is it easy to remove?

Now if I was to put in a new tube, what's the best and is it worth putting in those puncture guard yokes?

All help and advice appreciated!

Thanks.

blorg

With tubes costing max of a fiver puncture repair is a bit of a dying art- still useful though to bring around with you as a kit is a lot smaller than a tube. You do have to hold the patch in place for a little while until the vulcaniser sets, and personally I like to sort of smooth the edges of the patch into the tube so there is no edge left flapping.

You shouldn't have any trouble taking the wheel off with the gears, makes it a bit easier if you shift into the smallest ring on the back. The gears will stay as they are, the only part of the wheel touching the chain is the cog.

Sheldon Brown has a good page on flats which explains how to remove a rear wheel on a derailleur bike. I find getting the tyre _back on_ to be far and away the most difficult part of the process myself.

Your best bet to avoid punctures in future (IMO) is to get good kevlar tyres such as Specialized Armadillos.

Civilian_Target

Stupid question, did you make sure the inside of the tyre was clean of anything that might cause a puncture before you put it back on?

rubadub

I dont bother taking the wheel off, it can be fixed while on the bike

did you make sure the inside of the tyre was clean of anything that might cause a puncture before you put it back on?

Very important, many forget. And even if it was the thumbtack always rub your finger around the inside, there might be potential punctures waiting for you.


is

it worth putting in those puncture guard yokes?

I have them and they work well.

Itsfixed

rubadub wrote:

I dont bother taking the wheel off, it can be fixed while on the bike

Yes, you can but I think this is bit awkward tbh. I've fixed many a puncture myself, but I always take the wheel off as, very often, the punctures are so small that i would need to take off the tube, blow it up, and put it into a basin of water to find the leak by spotting the air bubbles

In addition, as a commuter i always carry a spare tube in my bag so that i just replace the tube if a tube burst in between getting from A to B, then repair the burst tube later at work or at home, and carry that in my bag until such a time as I get another puncture.

seagizmo

I've always found that if you make sure the tires are fully pumped up. You can withstand most potenial punctures.

SG

daymobrew

rubadub wrote:

And even if it was the thumbtack always rub your finger around the inside, there might be potential punctures waiting for you.

I go around the outside of the tyre too, squeezing the sides of the tyre to expose any embedded glass. They might be tiny but sometimes they are big enough to be a problem in the future. I've often found loads of little bits. A tiny screwdriver (or knife tip) is ideal for removing these pieces of glass/debris.

Like Itsfixed recommends, I too carry a spare tube. I used to just carry patches. For smaller holes it was often next to impossible to find the hole above traffic noise.

While removing the back wheel is obviously more awkward than the front, it's far from impossible. You may have to pull the chain back a bit to free the cassette (rear gears). I have latex gloves in my saddle bag to minimize the dirt on my hands.

AlanD

Civilian_Target wrote:

Stupid question, did you make sure the inside of the tyre was clean of anything that might cause a puncture before you put it back on?

Not a stupid question at all! Yes, I found the puncture culprit. It was a thumbtack.

The leak was out the side of the patch, so the adhesive of the patch just didn't take well enough. Could have been the heat.

I think I'll just get a new tube.

AlanD

thanks for the advice....

I checked the tyre alright and it's clean. I think I'll just retube the tyre and insert one of those puncture protectors.

I had the tyres pumped to the recommended pressure, but not much is going to withstand rolling over a thumbtack!

If I start getting real problems, I'll invest in some armadillos

Morgan

AlanD wrote:

scabs

These are "glueless" patches - people tend to have mixed results with them. I haven't found them particularly reliable. I'd recommend a good patch kit, with separate vulcanizing compound, e.g. Tip Top

http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/products/details.aspx?pRef=33402&vertical=1&v=

AlanD

Morgan wrote:

These are "glueless" patches - people tend to have mixed results with them. I haven't found them particularly reliable. I'd recommend a good patch kit, with separate vulcanizing compound, e.g. Tip Top

http://www.ultimatepursuits.co.uk/products/details.aspx?pRef=33402&vertical=1&v=

you know I hummed and hawed over whether to buy the traditional patch and vulcanizer but decided on the easy option with already adhesived patches. Useless patches they should be called instead of glueless.

AlanD

now if I was to buy a tube....

what size tube do I need? My tyre size is 28 x 1 & 5/8's x 1 & 3/8's.

When looking at tubes the other day the sizes didn't match exactly to the tyre size.....

el tel

Alan, I presume you just pulled the section of punctured tube out from under the tyre before shoving it back in after affixing the patch?

If so, this approach could infllict trauma to the patch and tube as you force it back between the wheel rim and the bead of the tyre. Really the best and most reliable way to fix a punctured tube is to remove the wheel, debead the tyre, pull out the tube in its entirety and repair. Always take care too with the tyre levers when putting the tube backin and ideally you should avoid them altogether when doing this.

Taking a wheel of may seem daunting but it is a piece of piss and should take no more than 15 seconds if you have quick release hubs.

rubadub

Itsfixed wrote:

Yes, you can but I think this is bit awkward tbh. I've fixed many a puncture myself, but I always take the wheel off as, very often, the punctures are so small that i would need to take off the tube, blow it up, and put it into a basin of water to find the leak by spotting the air bubbles

Ture, but many times you can see exactly where the puncture is, like the thumbtack. I pump the tyre up and run it past my face, you can feel or hear the puncture in most cases, and dont have to bother with the water, or subsequent drying of the tube.

Itsfixed wrote:

In addition, as a commuter i always carry a spare tube in my bag so that i just replace the tube if a tube burst in between getting from A to B, then repair the burst tube later at work or at home, and carry that in my bag until such a time as I get another puncture.

Same here, if on the road I will replace it, if the puncture is at home I fix with the wheel on. You can get very light pumps in kits in argos for next to nothing.

AlanD

el tel wrote:

Alan, I presume you just pulled the section of punctured tube out from under the tyre before shoving it back in after affixing the patch?

If so, this approach could infllict trauma to the patch and tube as you force it back between the wheel rim and the bead of the tyre. Really the best and most reliable way to fix a punctured tube is to remove the wheel, debead the tyre, pull out the tube in its entirety and repair. Always take care too with the tyre levers when putting the tube backin and ideally you should avoid them altogether when doing this.

Taking a wheel of may seem daunting but it is a piece of piss and should take no more than 15 seconds if you have quick release hubs.

Actually, I pulled out the whole tube and blew it up and tested it in water. I put it back in pretty carefully then, but as you said, the patch may still have become unstuck. To be honest, the patches I used are crap so it could have easily happened. I'll just learn how to take off the wheel this evening and sort it once and for all.

i.e. with a new tube.

el tel

AlanD wrote:

Actually, I pulled out the whole tube and blew it up and tested it in water. I put it back in pretty carefully then, but as you said, the patch may still have become unstuck. To be honest, the patches I used are crap so it could have easily happened. I'll just learn how to take off the wheel this evening and sort it once and for all.

i.e. with a new tube.

How did you pull the whole tube out with removing the back wheel?

wahlrab

yeah getting the tire back on is the hardest part for me, anyone got any tips for this that might spare my fingers for next time? cheers

AlanD

el tel wrote:

How did you pull the whole tube out with removing the back wheel?

I didn't take off the back wheel at all, I just pulled out the tube and fed it carefully around the axle and other bits so I could put it in water.

I used one of those handy tyre levers for bikes made of plastic that puts the tyre on and off in a couple of seconds.

AlanD

just took off back wheel and fitted a new tyre along with a puncture guard. Piece of pi$$! Can't believe how easy it was to remove the back wheel.

That sheldon brown guide was great!

Thanks for all your help

Civilian_Target

Agreed - the one thing I dread is getting the tyres back on. Can take a long time and destroy your fingers.

blorg

wahlrab wrote:

yeah getting the tire back on is the hardest part for me, anyone got any tips for this that might spare my fingers for next time? cheers

Yes, you need to use the tyre levers. :eek:

Alternatively, grow stronger fingers.

grizzly

Never heard of tyre levers, but the back of a tea spoon works great!

oobydooby

I haven't ad touble fixing punctures for years (touch wood). What used to give me problems was applying the glue/vulcaniser. You have to leave the glue on the tube where you will put the patch for 5 minutes BEFORE you apply the patch. Dunno why, but I used to frequently shorten/skip that section and try and glue the patch with wet glue:o

That was my main problem, the other was already mentioned - make sure you check the inside of the tyre and rim for grit, glass, sharp spoke heads etc.

By the way, how do you fix a car tyre? Is it the same principle and is it safe to use?

Capt'n Midnight

grizzly wrote:

Never heard of tyre levers, but the back of a tea spoon works great!

years ago every spoon in the house was bent

Capt'n Midnight

AlanD wrote:

now if I was to buy a tube....

what size tube do I need? My tyre size is 28 x 1 & 5/8's x 1 & 3/8's.

When looking at tubes the other day the sizes didn't match exactly to the tyre size.....

match the diameter - 28 as close as you can. 27 would fit too
( are you sure it isn't 26 ? as per mountain bike )

the 1 3/8" need not be exact as the rubber stretches quite a bit

Capt'n Midnight

daymobrew wrote:

Like Itsfixed recommends, I too carry a spare tube. I used to just carry patches. For smaller holes it was often next to impossible to find the hole above traffic noise.

While removing the back wheel is obviously more awkward than the front, it's far from impossible. You may have to pull the chain back a bit to free the cassette (rear gears). I have latex gloves in my saddle bag to minimize the dirt on my hands.

I used to take the tyre off completely and try to feel the air coming out with the bit of skin between your nose and top lip, slow and you may have to go around twice if you do it too quickly.

some bikes have hangers for the chain, lollipop sticks and sticks and other litter can be used too to keep the hands clean - also use your foot

AlanD

5 bike rides, 5 punctures. This is ridiculous. Where do you get those armadillo tyres?

Also two of the punctures were caused by the little nuts holding the spokes. Even though there's a strip around the rim, how can I prevent these type of punctures happening?

Chips Lovell

You can get Armadillo's in Cycleways. They're pretty bullet prooft. However, 5 punctures in 5 rides is a bad sign and might indicate you're doing something wrong here. Sure you're pumping the tyres up to the right pressure? How are the nuts causing punctures? Are they breaking through the rim tape?

seamus

AlanD wrote:

5 bike rides, 5 punctures. This is ridiculous. Where do you get those armadillo tyres?

Also two of the punctures were caused by the little nuts holding the spokes. Even though there's a strip around the rim, how can I prevent these type of punctures happening?

I hear ya brother! I've had six tubes already this year.

You'll get Armadillos online, or in Cycleways (across the road from the north entrance to the Ilac). I bought a pair about three weeks ago, cost me €80.

I started having punctures with them because of the spokes too. You can get extra thick rim tape, but a quick and cheap solution is to use masking tape over the rim tape. Make sure the rim tape is centred all the way around the wheel. Then apply the masking tape in one continuous band - this is much easier than it sounds. A standard roll of masking tape should be almost exactly the same width as the rim, so it'll hold the rim tape in place and also give a little extra protection to the tube.

Theoretically, with the rim tape in place , this shouldn't happen. Indeed, this type of puncture had never happened to me before. I'm fairly sure it's the shape of the rim that causes it - I have discs, so the rim is relatively narrow. What I reckon was happening on my wheels is that the rim tape was shifting sideways (very slightly) when I was putting the tyres on, and then eventually the pressure in the tube causes it to get pierced by the edge of the spoke nipple.

I've had the Armadillos and masking tape in place for about 2 weeks now, with no punctures, which I think is a new record. I'll let you know if I get any punctures.

There are a number of types of tyres that have the armadillo tag on them. I went for the crossroads - they're basically an off-road tyre with a slick centre for on-road cycling. There are full off-road and slick tyres available too, but I'm still not confident enough to ride slicks on our ****ty roads. The crossroads are nice and smooth on the flat and solid into corners, so I'm happy.

AlanD

el tonto wrote:

You can get Armadillo's in Cycleways. They're pretty bullet proof. However, 5 punctures in 5 rides is a bad sign and might indicate you're doing something wrong here. Sure you're pumping the tyres up to the right pressure? How are the nuts causing punctures? Are they breaking through the rim tape?

What I was pumping the tyres with I had thought was not calibrated right, so I bought a new pump with a gauge and right enough what I thought was in the tyres was about 20lbs less than what should have been in there.

So I pumped them to 80lbs, went for a cycle and literally 500m down the road the back tyre deflated.

Yes, 2 of the punctures had little gashes on the inside of the tube, so not caused by anything coming in from outside. I've put those tube protector things on the outside of the tube.

AlanD

seamus wrote:

You can get extra thick rim tape, but a quick and cheap solution is to use masking tape over the rim tape. Make sure the rim tape is centred all the way around the wheel. Then apply the masking tape in one continuous band - this is much easier than it sounds. A standard roll of masking tape should be almost exactly the same width as the rim, so it'll hold the rim tape in place and also give a little extra protection to the tube.

good advice, I'll give that a go so.

Chips Lovell

AlanD wrote:

So I pumped them to 80lbs, went for a cycle and literally 500m down the road the back tyre deflated.

Had you just put a tube in? Often with a puncture that happens that fast it means the tube has been put in incorrectly and is caught against the rim or something.

AlanD wrote:

Yes, 2 of the punctures had little gashes on the inside of the tube, so not caused by anything coming in from outside. I've put those tube protector things on the outside of the tube.

In my experience, most punctures aren't caused by sharp objects going in through the tyre, but by pinch flats. Essentially, you ride over something and the tube is squeezed between it and the rim. Chances of this happening increase massively if the tyres are underinflated. You usually get two holes, one on the inside and one on the outside of the tube, but sometimes you may only get one. So it needn't necessarily be the spoke nipples causing it. If the rim tape isn't torn or loose, I'd consider this.

blorg

According to this 28 x 1 & 5/8's x 1 & 3/8's seems to be another name for ISO 622mm / 700C, e.g. standard hybrid/road bike size. I've used 700x25 slick armadillos and they work fine, very reliable.

AlanD

blorg wrote:

According to this 28 x 1 & 5/8's x 1 & 3/8's seems to be another name for ISO 622mm / 700C, e.g. standard hybrid/road bike size. I've used 700x25 slick armadillos and they work fine, very reliable.

the other measurement is 700 x 35C so that is the size tube I've been getting.....seems to fit fine...... but maybe not since I've been in puncture city this last while.

Chips Lovell

AlanD wrote:

the other measurement is 700 x 35C so that is the size tube I've been getting.....seems to fit fine...... but maybe not since I've been in puncture city this last while.

That's the one to look out for. Usually tubes are for a range of tyre sizes. In your case, you should be looking out for something marked like 700 X 28/38.

AlanD

el tonto wrote:

Had you just put a tube in? Often with a puncture that happens that fast it means the tube has been put in incorrectly and is caught against the rim or something.



In my experience, most punctures aren't caused by sharp objects going in through the tyre, but by pinch flats. Essentially, you ride over something and the tube is squeezed between it and the rim. Chances of this happening increase massively if the tyres are underinflated. You usually get two holes, one on the inside and one on the outside of the tube, but sometimes you may only get one. So it needn't necessarily be the spoke nipples causing it. If the rim tape isn't torn or loose, I'd consider this.

Just took out the tube to see where the puncture was and it was on the rim side of the wheel. It was like a cut...which could mean it was pinched.

As far as I remember though, this tube wasn't just fitted, but it was under inflated, so maybe it's to do with my own fitting method.