Another One Bites The Dust

liamo333

Brought my new TM SR-16 to HRTA today for its first test shots. Put around 1000rds through it when there was horrible gringing noise. Hoping it was just the autowinding mag's gears I walked back to the safe zone in a sulk:(

When I got back tested the mag - nothing wrong. Figuiring (sp?) it was the gun I pulled the trigger and the grinding noise appeard again:mad:

Took the gear box appart today and around half of the threads on the middle gear have been stripped:(

Was talking to Paul and he was saying that I should e-mail UNcompany and ask for a new gun. Sent this email off to them hopefully I should get a new gun or gearbox fairly soon.

Hi,
I recived my Tokyo Marui SR-16 yesterday and today I brought it to my local skirmish site for it's first game, it was running great for the first 1000 rounds. There was a grinding noise coming from the gearbox and the gun broke down.

The order number is xxxxx.

I would like to arrange for a repelacement gun, would you please tell me how to go about this.

Yours sincerily,
Liam

TM quality my arse:D Two TM guns one week:eek:

Fiach Dubh

That really sucked alright man Hopefully UNcompany will step up to the plate for ya.

o1s1n

If you were going to send it back to UNcompany, you probably shouldn't have opened up the gearbox. That could have voided your warranty (If there is a warranty at all, I haven't a clue.)

At least if they won't take it back you'll just have to replace a gear. So it's not the end of the world.

Still though, that's rough.

CrazyRabbit

<----resists urge to slate TM quality once again.

Or maybe it's just UNCompany AEG's.....

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

<----resists urge to slate TM quality once again.

Or maybe it's just UNCompany AEG's.....

Yeah, those TMs are pure sh1te so they are :rolleyes:

kdouglas

o1s1n wrote:

Yeah, those TMs are pure sh1te so they are :rolleyes:

and that's my new sig...


Edit: oh and on-topic... i wouldn't hold my breath on getting the whole gun replaced, but if they are good enough to send you a new set of gears then that'd be fair enough

CrazyRabbit

o1s1n wrote:

Yeah, those TMs are pure sh1te so they are :rolleyes:

Well lets just say that I've lost a lot of faith in them now. My 2 TM guns have problems, and in less than two weeks, we've seen 2 TM AEG's get stripped gears very early on in their life.

Maybe conincidence....maybe UNCompany are reselling lemons...maybe TM are all hype when it comes to quality.

o1s1n

kdouglas wrote:

and that's my new sig...


Edit: oh and on-topic... i wouldn't hold my breath on getting the whole gun replaced, but if they are good enough to send you a new set of gears then that'd be fair enough

Hah! Was that sarcasm too thinly veiled?

CrazyRabbit

o1s1n wrote:

Hah! Was that sarcasm too thinly veiled?

<---remembers the warnings O1s1n gave me about posts with humor being misunderstood/misquoted.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Well lets just say that I've lost a lot of faith in them now. My 2 TM guns have problems, and in less than two weeks, we've seen 2 TM AEG's get stripped gears very early on in their life.

Nobody says TM guns are 100% perfect in every way and will never break down. It's a risk we always take when ordering something. Stripped gears seem to be an eventuality. Just replace them and move on. Gun works fine again.

CrazyRabbit wrote:

maybe TM are all hype when it comes to quality.

If 20 odd years of worldwide airsoft experience says they are the best quality then I think I'll take my chances and stick with them. Your first gun stripped a gear. Replace it.

You'll have to remember. You're new to this. You can't strip a gear and then go on a rant saying how hyped up TM really are as if you have experience with all their products.

kdouglas

o1s1n wrote:

Hah! Was that sarcasm too thinly veiled?

sar-cas---- what?

liamo333

o1s1n wrote:

If you were going to send it back to UNcompany, you probably shouldn't have opened up the gearbox. That could have voided your warranty (If there is a warranty at all, I haven't a clue.)

I only sent them the email in hope of a new gun (not really expecting one:p ) but no harm in trying;) I am going to do my best to get a gearbox or even replacement parts.

As voinding the warranty, they wont know if i opend the gearbox (unless they read this (like thats gonna happen:p )) because I can fix it myself alot cheaper than getting it sent to them and back so it would not be worth my while.

o1s1n

I was actually wondering that. If you had to send it back, would they reimburse you the postage costs? Horrible situation alright.

If you are able to open it up and isolate the problem, I'm sure you'll have no problem replacing the gears anyway. Good luck!

liamo333

I did a postmorten on it and discoverd that the bevel gear bushing broke which caused it to shift/move/jump tearing the middle gear. Was thinking of putting in an systema FTK(100E) or elementFTK(25E(not sure if these are any good)) If I dont get a new gun. If I do get a new gun I will sell it and use the money to get a metal 1 pice outer barrle, metal reciver, systema FTK and m203.

liamo333

o1s1n wrote:

If you are able to open it up and isolate the problem, I'm sure you'll have no problem replacing the gears anyway. Good luck!

It aint that hard once youve done it a few times.

Mark_Sc

If only you had ordered from Keith... Terrible shame about the gun...

liamo333

Mark_Sc wrote:

If only you had ordered from Keith... Terrible shame about the gun...

Why do you say that?

o1s1n

liamo333 wrote:

Why do you say that?

Because knowing the way he is, he'd probably have hand delivered you a replacement.

Okay so he isn't THAT nice...

But yeah. I'm going to try and give him as much of my business as I can.

liamo333 wrote:

It aint that hard once youve done it a few times.

I know. Still haven't done it myself (Being one of the luckier ones who hasnt had to up to this point)

I've been meaning to buy a clone for a while now and familiarize myself with a gearbox.

liamo333

Paul is selling them for 40E after 8 games. Sold 2 today.

The Master

40euro:eek: He'll have another sale next week so

o1s1n

€40?! :eek: Any Aks? oisin wants an ak!

liamo333

I'm sure some are a few days/weeks away from retierment. Give paul a ring/PM.

Fallschirmjager

i feel your pain, nothing worse when your new shiny aeg got bam.well i have to say, everyone gets this and sometimes it is the luck of the draw, but tm is considered the closest to reliable as you can get, however, it is only metal gears and in a lot of cases the more battery power u supply the greater the risk.. i am not suggesting this is your problem, but to give an example...it is quite common when firing multiple bursts to do it quite fast. i am not saying this is your problem, it just sounds like a dud you got, the classic monday morning aeg...but i have heard people firing like burpp burpp burpp (not the most elegant way of describing an aeg !)...and that is a stripped gear waiting to happen IMHO. u need to give a time lag for the gears to stop, otherwise you get one half engaged and bam, you get sheared metal

when i have a problem with mine recently both UN and G&G were super helpful. in fact they told me to open it up to see if there was a problem, so i guessing u are fine on that front. the other good news, is that tm's are good for mods -- something that will make your life a lot easier in a few days...:) also i also see a lot of people buying systema mechboxes..yes they are reliable, but they are not made by god...so u can still get gear stripping.

kdouglas sent me a link about a video to strip a gearbox. nice simple steps. in fact if you are lucky UNC will just supply a second gearbox...i will keep my fingers crossed for you on that one.

when i saw mine, i was amazed...it is the art of simplicity and i sat back and just watched the masterpiece in work. it gave me a greater appreciation of how it all works. i would also recommend you get some shims. these are small washers that lift the gears slightly apart and are only a few dollars. probably best to have a few of them around tbh. the good news is that u will be back in business in no time...and kicking ass no doubt...just hopefully not mine..:D

let us know how u get on...good luck

[--SC(+)PE--]

Thats grim Liam nothin worse then a new toy going tits up on its debut.

Yeah, those TMs are pure sh1te so they are



and that's my new sig...

God damn it Douglas your always one step ahead lol

Paul is selling them for 40E after 8 games. Sold 2 today

yes, ive been meaning to buy one of these meself for a while now

kdouglas

liamo333 wrote:

Paul is selling them for 40E after 8 games. Sold 2 today.

you sure it's only €40?? i thought it was more than that, ill be buying a few ex-rentals to add to my collection so!

Fiach Dubh

Quick question Kdouglas. I need to reset the gear in my VFC again before I install the TM motor. It's at an angle again after using the VFC motor for a second time yesterday. How did you do it?

kdouglas

Fiach Dubh wrote:

Quick question Kdouglas. I need to reset the gear in my VFC again before I install the TM motor. It's at an angle again after using the VFC motor for a second time yesterday. How did you do it?

pm sent

Evolute

kdouglas wrote:

and that's my new sig...


Edit: oh and on-topic... i wouldn't hold my breath on getting the whole gun replaced, but if they are good enough to send you a new set of gears then that'd be fair enough

They may end up selling dodey products but when those dodgey products break they replace em. Most of the time they replace it fully because the person who has the AEG does not know how to fix it

o1s1n

LIGHTNING wrote:

Isn`t that what people with Merc`s that are falling apart say

liamo333

Havent recived a reply from uncompany so I just sent another one to them. Hope they aint ignoring my emails:(

kwalsh000

Sorry to go O/T guys..but who might this Paul be and 40e Airsoft Items after being used in 8 games..sounds like a good idea for someone starting off eh! Sorry again for going O/T

liamo333

He owns and runs hrta. Go to www.hrta.ie and his contact details are there so you should be able to call him.

kwalsh000

Ah...Thanks very much Liamo

Harekin

liamo333 wrote:

Brought my new TM SR-16 to HRTA today for its first test shots. Put around 1000rds through it when there was horrible gringing noise. Hoping it was just the autowinding mag's gears I walked back to the safe zone in a sulk:(

When I got back tested the mag - nothing wrong. Figuiring (sp?) it was the gun I pulled the trigger and the grinding noise appeard again:mad:

Took the gear box appart today and around half of the threads on the middle gear have been stripped:(

Was talking to Paul and he was saying that I should e-mail UNcompany and ask for a new gun. Sent this email off to them hopefully I should get a new gun or gearbox fairly soon.

Hi,
I recived my Tokyo Marui SR-16 yesterday and today I brought it to my local skirmish site for it's first game, it was running great for the first 1000 rounds. There was a grinding noise coming from the gearbox and the gun broke down.

The order number is xxxxx.

I would like to arrange for a repelacement gun, would you please tell me how to go about this.

Yours sincerily,
Liam

TM quality my arse:D Two TM guns one week:eek:

Em...you test fired it and put a thousand rounds through it immediately? And you wonder why it broke down? Lol...its humourous how people are so quick to slate Marui when clearly it was down to their own questionable use of common sense.

Harekin

It says quite clearly and in no uncertain terms that you are supposed to give your gun a break for about 15mins after you've fired 500-600 rounds. Its in the Marui manuals, check it out.

Fiach Dubh

Unfortunatly only the high priced support MG's really have the gearboxes to take sustained fire like that. Most AEG's I wouldn't fire more then 20-30 rounds max before allowing at least a 5 second cooldown of the mechbox. Someone needs to bring out a Titanium gearbox

chalky

Eh, where does he say that it was 1000 rounds continuous fire? I had assumed it was 1000 rounds through the course of a few games. In my opinion a TM definitely should be able to handle that. Sure my first day in HRTA I put around 2000-3000 round through my AGM M14 (a Chinese clone) and thats working just fine.

o1s1n

LIGHTNING wrote:

If your new car went belly up after you drove it a few hundred km`s you would be annoyed right?

When you first buy a new car there's a break in period where you take it easy, don't go over certain speeds. You don't just floor it from the get go.

I could imagine the same should be done with an AEG. It makes sense.

chalky

o1s1n wrote:

When you first buy a new car there's a break in period where you take it easy, don't go over certain speeds. You don't just floor it from the get go.

Never heard of that, but I would think thats not so much to break it in than to make sure everything is working properly. you don't want to be going 120kmh only to realise they forgot to install your brake pads (although I think brake pads do need to be worn in) the same danger does not apply to an AEG.

o1s1n

Breaking-In a New Car

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_should_you_'break-in'_a_new_car

Most manufacturers have recommendations in the handbooks.

Basically you start off treating the engine very gently i.e. gentle revs and never more than 1/4 throttle. Over time you gradually use more revs and more throttle until you eventually end up using the full range of the engine. It is important to eventually end up using all the power and rev range to wear harden various parts. It is also important that you do not keep to a single continuous speed or gear but vary your speed quite a bit during this time (a long highway journey is NOT a good break in if you just sit in top gear at a continuous speed). This is because things are still hardening up and you can wear a groove into them.

Modern engines break in relatively quickly, often 1000km, older designs took longer as the tolerances were not as precise. The first oil change is often a lot sooner than later ones as during break in rough edges from manufacturing will be worn off and end up in the oil.

Here is more advice from various contributors:

* Drive it gently. general rule is not to exceed 3000 - 3500 rpm. for the first 500 miles. It is also a good idea to be kind to it for the first 2000 miles.

* Break in is important. All engine bearings and cylinders, etc. must wear evenly and proper. Also, piston rings need to seat. Have you ever seen a new engine burn oil until it breaks in? Some piston ring take up to 5000 miles to fully seat or wear evenly to cylinder bore. Not following proper break in procedures could result in premature engine/parts failure.

* This depends whether you purchase or lease a car. With a purchase you should break a car in for the reasons and using the methods described before, ignoring the one comment about it being bull****. If the vehicle is a lease you may skip the break-in period if you so wish. Since not breaking-in a car may result in improper wear of parts, or even engine failure, during the warranty period it will be covered, and a leased car will be returned to the dealer before the warranty period expires.

* You shouldn't just break-in your car if you are buying it. Even if you are leasing it you should. Do the next guy a favor. A very inconsiderate answer man. Besides some people lease it and then decide they like it and want to buy it, so I say, you should break it in anyway. No matter what.

* If you research on how to break-in a new engine on the web, most sites will tell you a procedure to break-in the piston rings (the only thing that matters).

* The proper way to break in an engine is to drive at 30 mph and accelerate to 50 mph. Do this to break in the engine the proper way. Do this the first 3000 miles or so.

* Manufactures are making engines with much higher tolerances today. Where cylinder clearances used to be in the thousands of an inch, now its in the ten thousands. Bores are rounder and straighter. There is know reason to baby a newer engine, it will actually hurt. You need cylinder pressure to drive the rings out onto the bore, which actually shaves the bore into a perfect fit. By babying it the rings will only rub and burnish the surface leaving a less then Ideal finish. So ... keep the revs below 4000 the first 300 miles, then drive it ... accelerate with meaning for the next 2500 miles and your all set. This is how all High Performance engines are broken in, and all engines today can be considered a high performance engine since they pull more power out then there predecessors ever did.

* Most modern car engines are broken in at the factory, before assembly. Therefore the old tradition of breaking in a new car doesn't apply anymore. Just drive as you normally would drive and treat the car the way you would treat anything else of value.


Some interesting comparisons. Especially the likes of gears and parts having to do their initial wearing evenly. I'd say follow a similar rule in not over doing it and keeping bursts to a minimum while everything gets seated and the initial wearing gets out of the way.

liamo333

Harekin wrote:

Em...you test fired it and put a thousand rounds through it immediately? And you wonder why it broke down? Lol...its humourous how people are so quick to slate Marui when clearly it was down to their own questionable use of common sense.

I put 1000 rounds through it through the course of the game with plently of time to cool down between each burst.

chalky

o1s1n wrote:

Breaking-In a New Car
Blah Blah Blah

I stand corrected. But I still think the gun should have been able to handle it.

Harekin

The gearbox only has 3 gears. My P90TR and my brothers TM G36C have never had ANY problems at all since we bought them (the week after it was legalised!)...Iv heard nothing but horror stories about clones. Everyone thinks they're the shizzle until a month or two of use and then they die. THEN some people upgrade them/repair them with quality parts! Just save and buy a TM, CA or other decent brand AEG as your primary.

Oisin, care to add anything to what Iv said?

Fallschirmjager

Harekin wrote:

The gearbox only has 3 gears. My P90TR and my brothers TM G36C have never had ANY problems at all since we bought them (the week after it was legalised!)...Iv heard nothing but horror stories about clones. Everyone thinks they're the shizzle until a month or two of use and then they die. THEN some people upgrade them/repair them with quality parts! Just save and buy a TM, CA or other decent brand AEG as your primary.

Oisin, care to add anything to what Iv said?

well i aint Oisin obviously, and i an definetely not in an anti tm camp, but i am seriously questioning myself at the moment. for instance. some of the clones are doing metal bodies for 100 euro as i am a bit of an all metal hunter. i am patiently awaiting ambro review of his new m4 for real feedback, so i will await his views, but even if i had to drop a mechbox in there, and lets be honest, a complete mechbox to install is not too difficult...i would be a lot under a tm or top brand model. having said all that i am considering buying a mp7 at the moment and i think i will goes with the tm one even tho it is twice the price for exactly the reason you have raised. but for m4's or ak's etc, IMHO, we do need to ask some questions about the financial implications of blindly committing to TM and other manufacturers just so that 3 gears dont give out or a dodgy hopup, we would be crazy not to...

personally, i think the chinese are coming in airsoft...and as time progresses, tm and other could be facing a squeeze. the bad news is of course we will stall with all news models as it is TM and others who are putting the investment into building them in the first place. most of the chinese companies are using TM as the model to copy. just my tuppence worth....

o1s1n

Harekin wrote:

The gearbox only has 3 gears. My P90TR and my brothers TM G36C have never had ANY problems at all since we bought them (the week after it was legalised!)...Iv heard nothing but horror stories about clones. Everyone thinks they're the shizzle until a month or two of use and then they die. THEN some people upgrade them/repair them with quality parts! Just save and buy a TM, CA or other decent brand AEG as your primary.

Oisin, care to add anything to what Iv said?

Is this turning into a clone vs TM debate again? *drops his keyboard and runs off into the horizon*

I've never had any problems with my TM. I've had it since October or November. Many thousands of rounds put through it. Dropped it a few times. It keeps running perfectly.

There was ONE occasion when I had a jam at HRTA. But that was due to using unpolished bbs. Loading rod got it straight out and it worked perfectly fine again.

"you get what you pay for" comes in here. As long as you know what to expect from your purchase, you should be happy.

I'd never have a clone as my main AEG. Or recommend a new player to buy one as a beginner AEG...as they may be getting good, but they're still not 100% up to scratch from what I've seen. The ROF still seems to be low. I know this can be fixed by putting in a higher output battery, but that can destroy the gears.

Some of them are coming with metal bodies yes. But what quality are the bodies themselves? The molding I've seen on most clones is pretty rough. (Bar a few) What kind of metal is it made out of? Is it pot metal? I don't really know as I've never seen a proper full metal clone. Someone will have to show me whenever they get one in the post

If you're going to buy a clone, just make sure you read loads of reviews about it. As many as possible. Make sure people have had good experiences.
Just remember though, it won't be up to the same standard as a gun that might cost 100 - 150 euro more. If you really love this type of gun and want something high quality and as realistic as you can get, I don't understand why you wouldn't save up an extra bit and get it.

I for example am trying to save up for a King Arms Fal at the moment. It may cost a fortune ($409!) But the quality is absolutely amazing. It's so good that every time I pick it up I'll probably p1ss myself. I know that's the kind of effect I want my AEG to have on me.

o1s1n

LIGHTNING wrote:

Well my two cents are:

"You get what you pay for" is only valid up to a point. My mate always slags me about my Skoda despite the fact that it has the same engine,gearbox,chassis as his Audi. He paid a hell of lot more than I did for basically the same car just a different badge. As for the quality of the metal on the clones does it matter? Its not as if they will be subjected to the heat in a real firearm! If its pot metal, titanium,steel as long as it feels and looks like the real thing who cares.

That said If I spent 500e on a AEG maybe I would be looking for reasons to say why its better than a clone:D

The same car different badge comparison doesn't work here. The internals of clones and the internals of TM and the like cant be compared. They're just in different leagues.

The quality of the metals does matter. If it has bad internal metals on gears it's more likely to break.

The thing about pot metal is it rarely looks/feels the part. It looks and feels cheap. The fire selector on my Mac 11 is pot metal and it annoys me every time I see it!

Now that I think about it, I have seen and used full metal Chinese clones. I used one of those g3sas clones. It was heavy and felt rugged but the quality of the steel and the way it had been stamped was bad.

I haven't seen a full metal Dboys m4 yet so I can't really comment on them. I have seen the full plastic version. The receiver was surprisingly well made.

CrazyRabbit

From the many many reviews I've been reading lately it seems that TM overall have the highest average quality airsoft guns, but they do have a weakness. The die-cast gears and nylon shims.

However, a lot of reviews also state that this is fine for any AEG below 350fps (with .2g bb).

Personally tough, I'd feel a lot happier if TM charged an extra 25 euro and fitted stronger gears and metal shims.

[--SC(+)PE--]

Is this turning into a clone vs TM debate again? *drops his keyboard and runs off into the horizon*

lol:p

kdouglas

personally im still sitting on the fence on the clone vs tm debate...

both have their advantages and weaknesses, and ill continue to buy from both sides, however one thing i've noticed about clones which few people ever mention is the motor...

the motor in my cyma mp5 was rubbish, could barely pull a 1Joule spring, in comparison my p90's TM eg1000 motor is very nice and gives it a good rof