Tricky Jackpot Hand

rag2gar

Hand from late last night in the jackpot. Not sure if I played it right so would like some opinions.

Blind 1/2

Early position makes it 7, one caller. Im on the button.

I have 6-4 clubs and call. 3 players see the flop.

Player A (drunk player who has been playing recklessly and putting a lot of chips in with top pair and rebuying then for €250) He has 250 now approx

Player B (very aggressive player has been playing a lot of pots and playing hands through to the river a lot of the time. Reasonable player with another decent tank behind. Playing 400 approx

Me (have been playing very tight preflop and this is the first hand I've played in a while and by far the worst hand so far tonight) Playing 350

Flop 10-6-4

Player A makes it 30 to go, player B QUICKLY calls.


I???????????????



I actually make it 140, comments?

Player A looks at his hand, looks at the flop, thinks for 5 secs and then pushes in that way only drunk jackpot players can(75 more to me). A sort of push your chips from the top so that they all fall down and into the pot way. Player B then thinks long and hard. He could be hollywooding for sure but it looks like genuine concern to me. The last few times he has gone into the think-tank he has called with very marginal hands. He pushes (Has me covered)


Should I call or get out?

valor

call

Theresalwaysone

Hey Valor, whats reasoning behind the call?

jimmii

If your calling a raise with 64 you got to be willing to play with two pair on the flop all your behind if TT. Your getting great odds to call you'd need for one of them to accidently turn over a set to fold this.

BigCityBanker

was it a rainbow flop?

you will see A10, K10, JJ+, 109, 108, 57etc here alot of the time. Player B autocalls 30 on the flop before agonising over the tank - likely a draw of some desc.

I call this against described villians.

rag2gar

Yes rainbow flop

RoundTower

you have most of your stack in the pot and you beat one pair, you have to call.

Flushdraw

I'm calling. A10 and JJ+ play this the same way. You have 140 in there and theres plenty more in the pot. You play with 64 and flopped 2 pair on a non scary board do i'd be sticking it in while i feel i'm ahead

ditpoker

call it, for all the reasons above... bad beat sticky gary!?

Jayminator

Deffo a call for me. Thats one of the reasons for playing 6 4 Gary. Drunk player probably A10 or even better an over pair so he has less outs to out draw you.

2nd player if very agressive and re loading a lot i deffo call. I think only a drawing hand here.

Your getting pot odds to cal too so please tell me you called. If your behind to a set then unlucky and re load.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

mdwexford

Jayminator wrote:

Deffo a call for me. Thats one of the reasons for playing 6 4 Gary. Drunk player probably A10 or even better an over pair so he has less outs to out draw you.

2nd player if very agressive and re loading a lot i deffo call. I think only a drawing hand here.

Your getting pot odds to cal too so please tell me you called. If your behind to a set then unlucky and re load.

just because im bored

A-10 and an overpair both have the same amount of outs

Ace2007

if your askin what u should do, then u shouldn't play with 64 of clubs, for example, if you floped a flush and the same situation occured, what were you going to do???

Did you win the hand??

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

bohsman

64 is the nuts in most situations, I call here every time

jimmii

No I agree with that. I wouldn't play this because no matter what but nothing has happened with the play in this hand to make you think that you are behind. Hitting 2 pair with a hand like this almost always makes it a less than scary board and so normally should be a hand you are willing to get it in with. Player B could well just see this as a hand between himself and the poster with Player A's chips as all but dead money. I think he's probably doing this with a wide range of hands most of which we beat. They would have to be a very tight player for me to give this up and from what is posted they don't appear to be so, especially given that they are more than willing to keep on firing to the river. It is highly unlikey they can pin you for a hand like 64. He's probably assuming you would have re-raised any overpair to this board pre-flop and that you are going to be hard pressed to call this with just a ten.

jimmii

double post somehow!

Ace2007

the outcome of the hand is not irrevelant... if he wins the hand then he can justifie playin with such crap, if he lost then its more proof, that he should not be playin with such crap as 64... no matter what position your in, and he stated that it was 64 clubs, if it was 64o would he have played? - the % in the difference is less than 5%....

mdwexford

Ace2007 wrote:

the outcome of the hand is not irrevelant... if he wins the hand then he can justifie playin with such crap, if he lost then its more proof, that he should not be playin with such crap as 64... no matter what position your in, and he stated that it was 64 clubs, if it was 64o would he have played? - the % in the difference is less than 5%....

Lloyd is gonna have a field day

jimmii

Its as low as 2% or something isn't it? I wouldn't play it but some people like little hands like that as you can catch out big hands when you hit. I think it should be left to higher level players to play hands like this and I don't think of myself as such so I don't get myself into these spots! Now that its player you have to agree its a call though.

bohsman

So if he won that pot it means that everyone should play with 64?

Chucky the tree

Ace2007 wrote:

the outcome of the hand is not irrevelant... if he wins the hand then he can justifie playin with such crap, if he lost then its more proof, that he should not be playin with such crap as 64... no matter what position your in, and he stated that it was 64 clubs, if it was 64o would he have played? - the % in the difference is less than 5%....

It is irrevelant though. Just because he wins this hand, doesnt mean he should call pf-raises with 64s at every occasion from now on.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ace2007

I'm sayin that he shouldn't play with 64 at all...
i'm sure you play enough poker to know this that even if he is ahead, there is a good chance that he won't be by the time the river comes, Player A or B, could have over pair and hit set, another 10 could come.. 2 give higher 2 pair, if player has A 10, A could come, etc....

you see these situation a million times a night, players play with crap, hit and then get there tank in, only to be done on the river... and then someone always says " thats what you get for playin with crap" .

Both player A and B have pushed after your raise... it'll be a miracle if your not behind, and u stated that player B called players A origial bet "quickly" - does this not tell you something, and why so did u raise to 140??

the op also stated that player A "is playing recklessly and putting a lot of chips in with top pair ", which means that he is going to see the river with you not matter what happens, and more than likely will fire another bullet on the turn, and then you have the position to see exactly what player B has and you'll easily know this by his reaction and what he does...

Chucky the tree

Ace2007 wrote:

Both player A and B have pushed after your raise... it'll be a miracle if your not behind, and u stated that player B called players A origial bet "quickly" - does this not tell you something, and why so did u raise to 140??

so he wouldnt call quickly with JJ+?

Edit- why didnt he call so quickly when OP re-raised and SB shoved if he had a set? If he had top set then it must be a very easy and quick call.

RasTa

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Your thinking is flawed.

.

rag2gar

Ace2007 wrote:

and u stated that player B called players A origial bet "quickly" - does this not tell you something, and why so did u raise to 140??
.

Calling the bet quickly usually means he has less of a decision. If player B has a set there is no way he can insta-call as he has to sum up what he is going to do. As in re-raise, flat call etc...

Also I have no problem playing the hand even though you regard it as crap. Its quite playable in position I feel and perfect for a pot-limt game where big hands cant get many chips in pre-flop and hands can hit a much better flop than them while still leaving the bigger hands thinking they're ahead such as this one.

I raised to 140 as I was confident I was ahead. I had a hand, but it was very vulnerable. I've got knocked out of countless tourneys with bottom two because of its high exposure.

jimmii

Everyone will always disagree on what and what not to play pre-flop so its probably best just to talk about what to do now as opposed to the merits of playing the hand or not.

Ace2007

i know that it is "irrevelent" - but what did bother players have...

As for player B having JJ+ thinking about what happened preflop.. he didn't have a high pair, other wise he would have reraised. therefore i would think he has 10's or some sort of pair. B also know what A is like as a player and therefore, having a set and not raising is a good move as player A will fire on the turn. B also knows that you are a "tight player" and therefore is likly to think that you have missed and therefore will fold.

The Scrapper

so wat did you do ???

i hate the way u leave us hanging !!!

valor

WHat were the results so we can decide what you should have done?

Ace2007

i know i hate that as well.. even thought with the majority of these posts, the op called and losted the hand and is on here to see if what they did is right

Flushdraw

Whether you should play 64s here isnt the issue. If i call on the button with 64s, i'm going to bet the flop 90% of the time its checked to me, whether i hit or not. I've seen weak players play hands like this in position and if they miss, they give it up. Thats just leaking chips and not using position to your advantage. In that case, you should never call with 64.

Garys holding is somewhat disguised in this hand. Obviously the other 2 players in the pot have to rule out JJ+ in his range because he would have 3bet from the button. When he raises to 140 on the flop, player A probably only sees his own hand and doesnt think what someone else could be holding. When he pushes i put his range on His range at K10, A10, JJ+ . Its player B that would worry me. Would he had 10 6 or 10 4, i dont think so. If you dont think he's Hollywooding it up, then i've rule out 1010 So this leaves 66 and 44 that youre behind to. Player B must we wondering what your holding is, and for him to push, he must think he's ahead of you.

Contrary to what i said in my earlier post, i know think this is a fold because i'd expect to see 66 here a lot

Ultimately though, if you win the pot...great call and if you would have lost it...great fold

Lazare

Ace2007 wrote:

i know i hate that as well.. even thought with the majority of these posts, the op called and losted the hand and is on here to see if what they did is right

That's sometime the case, but so what?

Threads like these aren't cliffhangers for your entertainment. The OP got himself into a difficult spot considering the flop action and is looking for advice. The action leading up to said spot is all that matters, and frankly, the outcome is irrelevant.

Tony's point about player B is spot on I'd say, it does look like he can beat one pair, but you do have a lot invested. Hard to lay down to the average live cash player, you will see A10 sometimes.


Oh, and Ace2007, this bullsh1t about 'ah ye shouldn't be playing that crap', shows a minimal understanding of poker.

Trippie

player b could hardly be calling with an 57 for the openender because of the "value" he is getting. i have played this game quite a lot recently and would definetly not rule this holding out. im not sure if the drunk guy could have A10 either as normally they are inclined to raise any high ace, is J10 or q10 a reasonable holding?

rag2gar

Sorry for the delay.

Player A had Ace/10 as a lot of people guessed and thats what I tought too. Player B who was showing genuine concern, had KK and did indeed tank it after much tought.

I called with 6-4

The_Chopper

rag2gar wrote:

Sorry for the delay.

Player A had Ace/10 as a lot of people guessed and thats what I tought too. Player B who was showing genuine concern, had KK and did indeed tank it after much tought.

I called with 6-4

and it held up?

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Your thinking is flawed.

we prob owe hj royalties, but "."

gotta call now.

NickyOD

If I play that hand on the button I reraise preflop unless there are more players in the pot.

Ace2007

right, correct me if i'm wrong but did player B with KK, raise preflop - if not then he deserved to lost that hand...

hotspur

That's the outcome you will get the majority of the time there based on your description. Player B has to have a set around 3/4's of the time there for it be an unprofitable call, 3/4 of the time is too much, it's a comfortable call...or as comfortable as you can be all in with bottom 2 versus 2 opponents.

Ste05

When you raise (as I would) to 140 you are auto getting AI. Insta call.

Goodluck2me

Ace2007 wrote:

the outcome of the hand is not irrevelant... if he wins the hand then he can justifie playin with such crap, if he lost then its more proof, that he should not be playin with such crap as 64... no matter what position your in, and he stated that it was 64 clubs, if it was 64o would he have played? - the % in the difference is less than 5%....

if i was saying this it would be more likely to be phrased as.... well if they called with worse hands than 64 when we tanked it then we did indeed recieve the correct implied odds to call the preflop raise with, if they will not then we muct reassses this.

I disagree though, outcomes as such are only relevant to the point to where the money goes in, not who wins the pot. if i open shove 100BB tank with AA preflop because i know 67s will call with it, then it would be the right move as we have successfully got it in ahead, reagrdless of the 89T flop....


also you are totally pot committed here its an easy call imo.

max_power

That was me in the hand, 'Player B'. Was a pretty sick hand, few things about it were wrong though. I made it a fiver blind utg, there was about seven callers, flop came and i looked down at kk, instantly regreting my raise. Don't think you were on the button but mp but anyway. When the rrai of Player A came round to me i thought i was definitely good against his range, he had been playing v loose with draws etc. My only thinking behind the push against you was that a bout an orbit earlier you made a similar move and claimed to have air i think. You were playing noticeably tight but thought that you might have seen it as an easy position for a squeeze. Anyway my reads were all wrong and i ended up sucking out incredibly. ul.

cardshark202

Bad beat.

Ace2007

ah here now lads, this is getting stupid, the OP stated that 3 players seen the flop after early position made it 7, Now player B is stating that he went 5 blind and there were 7 callers. Now this changes alot of things. Firstly, the call pre flop is ok - getting value, seondly player B stats you are not on the button, which means you raised to 140 with players who are still to act behind you. crazy!!!!

RedJoker

This thread makes baby jesus cry.

Lazare

Ace2007 wrote:

ah here now lads, this is getting stupid, the OP stated that 3 players seen the flop after early position made it 7, Now player B is stating that he went 5 blind and there were 7 callers. Now this changes alot of things. Firstly, the call pre flop is ok - getting value, seondly player B stats you are not on the button, which means you raised to 140 with players who are still to act behind you. crazy!!!!

Call these guys.

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