Negative comments about Irish Language.

Highnoon

Looking at the news today and saw that Pobal are organising a march in Belfast to demand "a comprehensive rights-based Irish language act". The head, Janet Muller said she was saddened by negative comments made by some politicians about Irish language speakers and the language.

Was wondering if anyone knows what was said? Had a google around the net and couldn't find anything.

dranoel

Didn't hear what was said but can easily imagine. According to Lá Nua (Gaeilge) 1200 submissions against the language act were received .

Gael

What do they expect from the DUP bigots, in all fairness. Just because Big Ian has gone through a (dubious) conversion on reconciliation, it doesn't mean they've all joined the local Irish class.
Nigel Dodds referred to Irish as a 'leprechaun language' (google that and you'll find loads) once in the assembly a few years back. Comments like that don't even deserve the ox*gen of publicity. I'm more bothered by anti-Irish comments made by southerners TBH.

Marcus.Aurelius

If the language is not dead, then it hardly requires the financial life support its been on since 1922. If DeV had had his way, we'd all be pious, ignorant gaelgoirí stuck in a catholic theocracy. Irish is dead, it's a dreadful waste of money.

If Irish is so alive, it doesn't need cash injections or bribery to gaelgoirí to keep it going. No govt has any right to shove a dead language down anyone's throat. It's ludicrous!

BoozyBabe

Nobody bribed me, or the 1000's like me to relearn the language a long long time after completing the education curriculum.

You don't like the language, that's fair enough.
You didn't like how it was taught to you, also fair enough.
It serves no purpose in your life, therefore it may seem dead to you, but it plays a BIG part in a lot of peoples life, a lot of them simply as a hobby with no financial gain from it.
To those people, the language is FAR from dead.

Marcus.Aurelius

Exactly, so it doesn't need government intervention, money or help. And it shouldn't be rammed down children's throats, that's not the sign of a progressive educational system.

If you are correct, then we can take it off financial life support.

JC 2K3

Keep in mind that this country is still Ireland. We haven't turned into a free-for-all multicultural country with no cultural bias just yet.

dranoel

Don't feed the troll. Many have deep rooted anti Irish language feelings. Don't waste your time and energy tackling these guys face on - they won't listen to you. Use your energy instead to make Irish a bigger part of your daily life.

dranoel

dranoel wrote:

Use your energy instead to make Irish a bigger part of your daily life.

Unfortunately, easier said than done...
Trying to learn myself (self teach), but have the problem of finding someone patient enough to talk to. I'd like to be able to use the spoken word rather than just text etc.

PauloMN

maoleary wrote:

Exactly, so it doesn't need government intervention, money or help. And it shouldn't be rammed down children's throats, that's not the sign of a progressive educational system.

If you are correct, then we can take it off financial life support.

Rammed down their throats? Is History rammed down their throats? What about poetry? Art? All those subjects are probably as little use from a practical point of view as Irish is, yet you don't seem to have picked on those.

If you don't want Irish rammed down your childrens' throats, why not teach them at home as is your legal entitlement? Then you don't have to teach them one bit of Irish, and they can turn out as ignorant as you are when they grow up.

Irish people are great at knocking the schools, church etc.. The one great thing about this country is that it is a democracy with a lot of freedoms that many other people don't have. Generally, if you don't like something, like Irish, you can freely choose for it not to be a part of your life. Why not exercise your democratic right if you feel so strongly about it?

dranoel

Deleted User wrote:

Unfortunately, easier said than done...
Trying to learn myself (self teach), but have the problem of finding someone patient enough to talk to. I'd like to be able to use the spoken word rather than just text etc.

Couldn't agree with you more - no easy solutions though

DonkeyStyle \o/

Gael wrote:

Nigel Dodds referred to Irish as a 'leprechaun language' (google that and you'll find loads) once in the assembly a few years back. Comments like that don't even deserve the ox*gen of publicity.

tbh if Irish had been pitched to me as 'leprechaun language' I'd have been far more interested in it.

dranoel

I think one of the main problems is that English is the default language when you meet someone new. Although it would require a culture shift I think people who wish to speak Irish should say 'Dia dhuit' or 'Conas tá tú' when they meet someone new. This would communicate to the other person that you're willing to converse in Irish. If the other person doesn't have or doesn't want to speak Irish then they could simply reply in English.

We need to be proactive with the language. Needless to say, it would take courage to try this and it's not worth trying on someone who dosen't look friendly.

Marcus.Aurelius

dranoel wrote:

Don't feed the troll. Many have deep rooted anti Irish language feelings. Don't waste your time and energy tackling these guys face on - they won't listen to you. Use your energy instead to make Irish a bigger part of your daily life.

This is a debate forum, can you pls tell me why it needs financial support if it is so alive. If you can't argue your point, you are the troll.

Marcus.Aurelius

PauloMN wrote:

Rammed down their throats? Is History rammed down their throats? What about poetry? Art? All those subjects are probably as little use from a practical point of view as Irish is, yet you don't seem to have picked on those.

If you don't want Irish rammed down your childrens' throats, why not teach them at home as is your legal entitlement? Then you don't have to teach them one bit of Irish, and they can turn out as ignorant as you are when they grow up.

Irish people are great at knocking the schools, church etc.. The one great thing about this country is that it is a democracy with a lot of freedoms that many other people don't have. Generally, if you don't like something, like Irish, you can freely choose for it not to be a part of your life. Why not exercise your democratic right if you feel so strongly about it?

Irish is mandatory across the national curriculum. Make it optional for 2nd level and see how it fares. If the language is worth saving, it will not die out. Isn't that what all Irish speakers want to prove? That their language is not an artificially alive joke?

JC 2K3

You don't get the whole point of this country being "Ireland" do you? We promote things traditionally associated with the country to assert an identity for ourselves. I mean if Irish isn't worth saving then why not abolish St. Patrick's Day while you're at it?

And although I wouldn't advocate making it optional in 2nd level just yet, the vast growth of the language in the last few years, particularly notable in the growth of gaelscoileanna around the country, suggests to me that those with a grudge against the language might be rather surprised were it to become optional.

dranoel

maoleary wrote:

This is a debate forum, can you pls tell me why it needs financial support if it is so alive. If you can't argue your point, you are the troll.

Happy to debate the point, but amn't interested in engaging with anyone on an angry rant 'pious, ignorant gaeilgoirí'

Marcus.Aurelius

JC 2K3 wrote:

I mean if Irish isn't worth saving then why not abolish St. Patrick's Day while you're at it?

Why not indeed.

Marcus.Aurelius

dranoel wrote:

Happy to debate the point, but amn't interested in engaging with anyone on an angry rant 'pious, ignorant gaeilgoirí'

I did not say that that was the case with gaelgoirí, I was referring to DeV's style of govt, he liked to keep people in the dark.

So, please debate the point.

Grudaire

maoleary wrote:

No govt has any right to shove a dead language down anyone's throat. It's ludicrous!

Well said, that is very true, the government of Ireland SHOULD be providing equal opportunities for gaelgoirí, and shouldn't be ramming English down their throats in Speeches, Elections etc etc......

tolosenc

maoleary wrote:

This is a debate forum, can you pls tell me why it needs financial support if it is so alive. If you can't argue your point, you are the troll.

It does not NEED financial support. It qualifies for it under the "Lesser Spoken Languages Fund" (or name to that effect) of the EU by having less than 1 million native speakers. This money is used to PROMOTE the language, not give it life support. It's not dead, but 'every little helps' etc. etc.

Marcus.Aurelius

Cliste wrote:

Well said, that is very true, the government of Ireland SHOULD be providing equal opportunities for gaelgoirí, and shouldn't be ramming English down their throats in Speeches, Elections etc etc......

Time only goes one way, pal, and that's forward. English is our new mother tongue. Sad? If you say so.

But that's how it is.

BoozyBabe

maoleary wrote:

Time only goes one way, pal,

Anyone who says 'Pal' in that context needs their head slapped!!!!

Not that I would condone violence or anything!!!

A chara.

Grudaire

maoleary wrote:

Time only goes one way, pal, and that's forward. English is our new mother tongue. Sad? If you say so.

But that's how it is.

Hang on - are you suggesting that everyone should be forced to speak English?? Stop trolling "pal"

Marcus.Aurelius

Cliste wrote:

Hang on - are you suggesting that everyone should be forced to speak English?? Stop trolling "pal"

No, I don't recall posting that. I did however post regarding the force-feed mantra of teaching Irish in Primary and Secondary school. We are fed English because it is essential to our economic prowess. If we were mainly Irish like the Poles being mainly Polish speakers then we would not be so attractive to foreign investment.

I disagree with SF's use of the language for purely political ends, I think English is as much a part of us as Irish is, it is in our history, in our blood. Irish is symbolic of a more isolated and sad time for us, a time when we were cut of from the rest of humanity.

I think English could well soon be the international language for all peoples, that is what makes it special, it unites. Irish seems to be used a lot as a divisive, tribalistic tool, to separate ourselves from everyone, to cocoon ourselves into isolation, rather than join this ever shrinking world. What to you guys think? Does Irish have a realistic place in this world? Seriously.

JC 2K3

maoleary wrote:

No, I don't recall posting that. I did however post regarding the force-feed mantra of teaching Irish in Primary and Secondary school. We are fed English because it is essential to our economic prowess. If we were mainly Irish like the Poles being mainly Polish speakers then we would not be so attractive to foreign investment.

Nobody said being able to English wasn't a good thing.

maoleary wrote:

I disagree with SF's use of the language for purely political ends, I think English is as much a part of us as Irish is, it is in our history, in our blood. Irish is symbolic of a more isolated and sad time for us, a time when we were cut of from the rest of humanity.

Well firstly, SF are a bunch of retards.

Secondly, what do you mean by "cut off from the rest of humanity"?

maoleary wrote:

I think English could well soon be the international language for all peoples, that is what makes it special, it unites. Irish seems to be used a lot as a divisive, tribalistic tool, to separate ourselves from everyone, to cocoon ourselves into isolation, rather than join this ever shrinking world. What to you guys think? Does Irish have a realistic place in this world? Seriously.

Do you really want a homogenised, monocultural, globalised world? Where nowhere is different from anywhere else, where everyone speaks the same language, where no one is proud of their heritage or where they come from? Does nothing matter to you other than an efficient, cynical and pragmatic approach to life?

Having a sense of national pride/identity would not isolate us in the slightest, that's a ridiculous notion.

Marathon Man

It seems to me that there is a large proportion of the population who have turned their backs entirely on their Irish heritage. My biggest regret in my short time on this planet is not becoming proficient in the Irish language. This situation I am currently attempting to remedy. To be honest I feel ashamed when I hear (on the rare occasions it occurs) people conversing in Irish and I'm not entirely able to understand them.
I also think it would be kinda cool if everyone reclaimed the language. It would really mess with the heads of foreigners, but in the nicest way possible of course.

Marcus.Aurelius

JC 2K3 wrote:

Having a sense of national pride/identity would not isolate us in the slightest, that's a ridiculous notion.

Don't you think nationalism is the same as self-isolationism, trying to find differences where there are none sufficient?

maoleary

maoleary wrote:

Don't you think nationalism is the same as self-isolationism, trying to find differences where there are none sufficient?

Nationalism is more of a political state of affairs rather than a desire to maintain your cultural heritage.

There is nothing to stop anyone promoting Irish without being isolationist.
Language is after all a method of communication, it only becomes a tool for isolationism if Irish speakers exclude non speakers from their conversations.

This does of course explain why Irish is not widely spoken, when more than one million claim to be able to speak Irish.

mise_me_fein

Hopefully we can get more of the Irish schools were we actually get taught in Irish instead of the current situation. It's not that it's rammed down our throats.

Think about the way Irish is taught compared to the way German or French is taught. When you learn French or German you're learning about how to use the language in practical terms....more than often with Irish we're learning poems and the like. I hated Irish and now I regret not being able to speak it.

I like having English but I'd love to have Irish also....the way some Africans can speak their native language as well as French.

The only way we're going to get the language back is by teaching in Irish. There are at least 4 more gaelscoils opening this year. If we can keep going at that rate we're definitely going in the right direction