People dont fold sets........... $5/$10.

BigCityBanker

5 handed, $5/$10, Stacks Me $1,100, MP $540, SB $1,180

UTG with 4c4h and you open to 35, MP calls 35, SB calls 35 (Pot 115)

Flop 4d 7d 10s

SB leads for 70, I make it 250, MP calls 250, SB makes it 960

Your move?

Not long at the table but MP seems a bit donkeyish, the call behind makes me put him on a FD. SB has been pretty tight, no real tangos other than he opened on the button for 35, I 3bet to 115, he 4bet to 265 and I folded.

Edit - SB has not defended blinds for 3 orbits.

NickyOD

Shove. He'll have a draw like 89d, J9d, AXd. or overpair too often and could easily play it the same way.

[nicK]

my stack ends up in the middle every time here with so many draws out..

you got stacked by set over set, get over it..

phantom_lord

NickyOD wrote:

Shove. He'll have a draw like 89d, J9d, AXd. or overpair too often and could easily play it the same way.

i don't think he should have any of those hands. if he's any good.

what's the sb like? any stats?

Jam-Fly

Your right, people don't fold sets.
If he's got it, he's got it

White Knight

AdQd or on the rare occasion Ad10d are the cards id expect to see from villain

DeVore

I'm tempted to say I'd fold here but I know in the heat of battle I would push.

Very tempted to fold because I think MP will come with you and then you are in a world of pain against either two draws or a draw and a made hand (like a bigger set).

Gowan, I push and close my eyes doing it.

DeV.

DeVore

Is there any chance the SB has an overpair?? AT and a brain failure?

DeV.

Hectorjelly

the sb in the hand should make you more likely to call not fold.

I definitely wouldn't fold here, I wouldn't be happy about it though.

HeeHawsCantona

you have to put the SB on a hand here
the 3 I'm thinking most likely are Ad10d, 77, 5d6d and with the latter I think a call or if he is a really good player a fold is more likely as its likely there is a higher flush draw out there.
Its hard to put this hand down but he's played it like one of the others and I'm not liking it - could the MP have 77 here (unlikely but possible). If I had a really good read here or maybe more chips in front of me and SB I could fold this but if I did I wouldnt show under any circumstances (obv u cant with someone behind) nor would I hint that I folded it.

DeVore

You mean MP Hector? Can you explain how having him around makes you more likely to call? (genuine question, I'd like to explore that).

DeV.

TacT

instacall and pray he hasn't got 56d

Norwich Fan Rob

i dont fold sets unless there is a obvious made str8 or a flush has completed......its so often not set over set......its -EV to fold.

ul i guess if it was here, but i still think a shove is the way to go.

BigCityBanker

Hectorjelly wrote:

I definitely wouldn't fold here, I wouldn't be happy about it though.

I thought this hand was very interesting. I also find it interesting that HJ finds it an uneasy call. I put this hand on 2+2 also - it was my first time ever posting there but similarly I found it interesting that Big_Jim who I believe to be a well respected poster said "I think this is pretty close, but im sure I shove anyway"

I was SB in this hand with 1010, MP had Ad5d. MHWG.

I know we never fold sets but I reckon it *may* have been possible to make a case for doing it on this occasion.

mdwexford

TacT wrote:

instacall and pray he hasn't got 56d

pray he does have 56d

eggie

BigCityBanker wrote:

I thought this hand was very interesting. I also find it interesting that HJ finds it an uneasy call. I put this hand on 2+2 also - it was my first time ever posting there but similarly I found it interesting that Big_Jim who I believe to be a well respected poster said "I think this is pretty close, but im sure I shove anyway"

I was SB in this hand with 1010, MP had Ad5d. MHWG.

I know we never fold sets but I reckon it *may* have been possible to make a case for doing it on this occasion.

If you were small blind in this hand why are you saying you open raised UTG with 44, if you have top set whats so interesting about it?

Fremen

Yargle Hargle Argle!

[nicK]

i've just recently began to follow the stox videos (not for my own benifit but becausue that's what all the cool kids do.. and i like to think i'm ahead of the game..).. anyway.. i noticed a seemingly normal fold for him that contained the following hand which absolutely blew my mind..

effective stacks.. 1k each

1knl

(20/17/4) tag opens for 80 in co, sb calls, stox calls along with jj in bb

flop: jd, kd, ax

check, check, opener leads for a decent cont. bet.. sb raises, stox folds his set of j's straight up, opener pumps allin and gets called by top set.. beaten by made straight with posssible sf draw..

in situations like the above it's understandable how you can find a fold, sometimes, but when flops like the above come along you can't help but get your stack in the middle, ul..

spectre

only 110BB stacks so sets always go broke here.

How's 5/10 treating you Noel? I hear you're off to Vegas with Johnny. Serious debauchery in the pipeline me thinks.

[nicK]

BigCityBanker wrote:

I know we never fold sets but I reckon it *may* have been possible to make a case for doing it on this occasion.

in the example above (stox's), it's understandable how sets can be laid down..

he's up against 2 players who's range has him absolutely crushed and he's possibly drawing to 1 out.. (ak, q10s, ajs, aa, kk)

however, in your hand, their range is so much wider and your set fairs much better on the given board.. get it in every time.. ul on the outcome obv but then again wp..

(mental donkey note: bcb leads sets multiway)

phantom_lord

[nicK] wrote:

however, in your hand, their range is so much wider

is it tho? or am i the only one that only really calls raises with pairs from the sb?

[nicK]

phantom_lord wrote:

is it tho? or am i the only one that only really calls raises with pairs from the sb?

after the flop action, 7's and 10's only make up a small part up sb's range though given the extra caller pf.. add in 710s, 47s, 89dd, 56dd, axdd, kxdd... i'm sure i've left out a whole lot more..

10's for the most part are 3betting pf in these games especially with the extra caller.. (obv this is a bad example) so 10's are out for me.. so i'm only worried about 7's here and given the rest of sb's range, i'm getting it in..

valor

I like your line, but you should shove rather than make it 900 or whatever because it looks more drawy. As for the guy with 44, cooler. As some others have said, I'm not folding but I'm not loving it here. I also disagree that 1010 will be 3 bet alot there, vs an UTG raiser and you will have good relative position postflop I think 3 betting 1010 sucks.

[nicK]

valor wrote:

I also disagree that 1010 will be 3 bet alot there, vs an UTG raiser and you will have good relative position postflop I think 3 betting 1010 sucks.

yeah i completely disregarded that it was an utg raise so add 10s to the range and it's a tricky spot, although i'm still shipping it in and looking on the next hand on the next table..

RoundTower

how is that JJ hand a "seemingly normal" fold for anyone. My guess is the opponents were huge nits and he was too kind to say it in so many words. I would rather fold the 44.

BuChan

these draw heavy type boards make it even harder to get away from hands, i'd ship it in with 44 here too.

what a flop for you, the stuff that dreams are made of....

BigCityBanker

[nicK] wrote:

(mental donkey note: bcb leads sets multiway)

Do you not like money? What would you do with a set here?

valor wrote:

I like your line, but you should shove rather than make it 900 or whatever because it looks more drawy. As for the guy with 44, cooler. As some others have said, I'm not folding but I'm not loving it here. I also disagree that 1010 will be 3 bet alot there, vs an UTG raiser and you will have good relative position postflop I think 3 betting 1010 sucks.

I was gonna ask for opinions on this also. Against an UTG raiser and a caller I would almost never 3 bet 1010 from the blinds here as it will look like a squeeze alot of the time and will only serve to give UTG further incentive to 4bet (possibly with a wider range) leaving me unable to call.

I wasnt sure as to whether I should have made it 600 or shove? I take your point about shoving here as it widens my range alot from UTG's perspective to include alot of draws.

phantom_lord

[nicK] wrote:

after the flop action, 7's and 10's only make up a small part up sb's range though given the extra caller pf.. add in 710s, 47s, 89dd, 56dd, axdd, kxdd... i'm sure i've left out a whole lot more..

maybe I'm just a big nit oop I thought all those hands would be a standard fold from the sb?

Goodluck2me

i think a set makes up a huge part of the `SBs range here, UTGs ranges include all of the overpairs to the board and rarely imo KT/QT type hands, so therefore if the SB is willign to go to war with a hand against him he should at least be beating an OP?

valor

phantom_lord wrote:

maybe I'm just a big nit oop I thought all those hands would be a standard fold from the sb?

they sure are, for me at least.