Dan Boyle must have some sense of humour...

...if the issue of the PDs really is a stumbling block.

It must be hard for him to keep a straight face and suggest that Mary Harney should not be allowed into Government. When it comes to voting for as Taoiseach, there is after all one big difference between Dan and Mary, and only one of them was given a mandate in that regard...

Villain

Another small difference is the fact that Dan Boyle is a member of the Green party Negotiating team whom have 6 seats thus 6 votes for Taoiseach as where Mary Harney as a member of the PD's Negotiating team has only 2 seats to Negotiate with.

A vital 2 none the less given that Enda Kenny hasn't much hope without them assuming Sinn Féin either abstain or vote for Ahern.
Kenny is also unlikey to get Flynn or Healy Rae and it seems even Lowrys FG credentials arent reliable if he gets the right offer.

Enda would probably have to make Grelish Tánaiste and Parlon attorney General

Villain

Well I don't think the Greens can break a deal that will be accepted by their party, FF with the PD's and Indo's is not what Bertie has said he wants... a stable Government.

I think FF are playing a waiting game for Greens to say no to a deal and then Labour will have to join FF "in the national interest".

Unpossible

irish1 wrote:

then Labour will have to join FF "in the national interest".

Why would labour not simply sit back with FG and wait for another election to be announced? or do you mean that "in the national interest" will be the excuse labour uses for going into government with FF?
Im just a bit confused over what you said

Voipjunkie

The Stumbling block i would imagine is that the Greens would have a substantially reduced influence if the 3 indos and the 2 PDs are also on board as FF could continue on without the Greens much as the PDs had less influence in the last Government compared to the previous one as FF could have continued on with the gene pool if the PDs had walked.
There is also the issue of co location if Harney stays on in Health then the chances of her dropping that issue would be slight and the Greens would take a hammering if they were part of a Government that allowed the cosy deal with private companies on public land.

Voipjunkie

Voipjunkie wrote:

The Stumbling block i would imagine is that the Greens would have a substantially reduced influence if the 3 indos and the 2 PDs are also on board as FF could continue on without the Greens much as the PDs had less influence in the last Government compared to the previous one as FF could have continued on with the gene pool if the PDs had walked.

Regardless they would be a given support wise if they are being talked to and offered something fruity.

There is also the issue of co location if Harney stays on in Health then the chances of her dropping that issue would be slight and the Greens would take a hammering if they were part of a Government that allowed the cosy deal with private companies on public land.

Even if it worked ? I'd understand all kinds of mirth if it didn't but it would be the strange voter if you had a vastly improved health service 5 years hence who dumped their green vote solely on that issue.

Villain

Unpossible wrote:

or do you mean that "in the national interest" will be the excuse labour uses for going into government with FF?
Im just a bit confused over what you said

Thats exactly what I meant.

Mick86

Conor74 wrote:

When it comes to voting for as Taoiseach, there is after all one big difference between Dan and Mary, and only one of them was given a mandate in that regard...

When it comes to voting for anything in the Dáil (including a Taoiseach) both Dan and Mary have one vote each. Both having been elected in their respective constituencies, they have an equal mandate from their electorate.

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote:

When it comes to voting for anything in the Dáil (including a Taoiseach) both Dan and Mary have one vote each. Both having been elected in their respective constituencies, they have an equal mandate from their electorate.

Dan was not elected i believe that was Conors point

Mick86

Voipjunkie wrote:

Dan was not elected i believe that was Conors point

Woops.:o

Every Smart Aleck gets his comeuppance. Today it was my turn.

bk

Unpossible wrote:

Why would labour not simply sit back with FG and wait for another election to be announced?

Because they know they would lose seats and that FF would almost certainly return with an overall majority.

Most people don't like politics and elections. If you were seen as the party that caused a second election to be called, you would likely be severely punished by the electorate and they would likely to vote FF in a big way in order to ensure a stable government was put in place.

Gael

Voipjunkie wrote:

Dan was not elected i believe that was Conors point

Neither was party secretary Dónall Geoghegan either, but he was a negotiator too. The Greens are entitled to send whoever they want into negotiations on a government. There is no rule that say it has to be someone who is a currently sitting TD. So other than a personal animosity towards Dan Boyle as an individual, this thread is kinda pointless.

Voipjunkie

Gael wrote:

Neither was party secretary Dónall Geoghegan either, but he was a negotiator too. The Greens are entitled to send whoever they want into negotiations on a government. There is no rule that say it has to be someone who is a currently sitting TD. So other than a personal animosity towards Dan Boyle as an individual, this thread is kinda pointless.

I never suggested the Greens could not send anybody they like I merely pointed out that Boyle wasn't a TD to Mick86

Ruen

Conor74 wrote:

...if the issue of the PDs really is a stumbling block.

It must be hard for him to keep a straight face and suggest that Mary Harney should not be allowed into Government. When it comes to voting for as Taoiseach, there is after all one big difference between Dan and Mary, and only one of them was given a mandate in that regard...

Regardless of who is or isnt a TD from the Greens their whole party are the ones who decide whether they make a deal to go into government not just the parlimentary party. So Dan Boyle along with every other card carrying member of the Green party has as much say as each other, TD or not.

bemmet

interesting - the greens seemed to have more things they did not want ,rather than what the y did want .
An obvious sign of a "made for opposition not government" party.

mickd

Gael wrote:

So other than a personal animosity towards Dan Boyle as an individual, this thread is kinda pointless.

The the thread is valid one for it points the stupidity and arrogance of Dan Boyle suggesting that a member of the Dail should be excluded from partaking in government when he is not a member of the Dail. If John Gormley made that suggestion that is a different matter. What has Dan Boyle ever achieved in politics, nothing, couldn't even keep his seat. Where Mary Harney has done more for the betterment of people's lives since her ministerial career began in 1989. She gets more personal animosity that anyone else in political life, I hope she has a full five years at health to straighten out the vested interests whose self perpetuation comes way ahead of patent care

[Jackass]

Greens are anti-coroption, anti-corporate donations and want a transparent planning process...are we suprised there is no common ground to form a government? They are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Labour will maintain their integrety, like the greens did, and know that this is a government, a minority government, that is slowly bleeding to death...in 18 months time the rainbow will begin the clean up of the country...as usual...

It's just a shame Bertie didn't have enough time to be forced to resign over his criminal activities whilst acting as Taoiseach, just like CJH, his reputation will be disgraced, but for the most part, he'll get away with it.

bemmet

Good intelligent impartial unbiased response there Nick.
Really adds to the debate .

Good man

mickd

More self righteous musings about integrity, "Berties criminal activities" get off the stage, this is Ireland not Tir na Og. What do you mean "as usual"? there was only one rainbow government

bemmet

Nick wrote:

Greens are anti-coroption, anti-corporate donations and want a transparent planning process...are we suprised there is no common ground to form a government? They are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

So what were they doing in negotiations for the last six days so ?

[Jackass]

I would imagine trying to find some common ground.

Gael

mickd wrote:

The the thread is valid one for it points the stupidity and arrogance of Dan Boyle suggesting that a member of the Dail should be excluded from partaking in government when he is not a member of the Dail. If John Gormley made that suggestion that is a different matter. What has Dan Boyle ever achieved in politics, nothing, couldn't even keep his seat.

He's stating the Green Party position. It doesn't matter diddly squat who happens to be stating it. It doesn't change what it is, whether Gormley, Boyle or one of the cleaners at Leinster House state it. It's still the Green position. So taking pot shots at Dan Boyle while he's doing his job in negotiations as mandated by his party, just because he lost his seat, is just plain petty.

mickd

For an observer of politics I am suprised that you equate cleaners of Lenister house with public representives, there is a difference one is elected the other isn't.

Ruen

Fact is that Dan Boyle is elected by his party to negotiate and he holds a vote within the party on whether they make a deal with Fianna Fail to govern or not, the same single vote that every member of their party has TD or not so he is just as entitled to say Mary Harney shouldnt be in government as John Gormley or Trevor Sargent would be especially when his party is negotiating their terms of a deal for government.

fly_agaric

The the thread is valid one for it points the stupidity and arrogance of Dan Boyle suggesting that a member of the Dail should be excluded from partaking in government when he is not a member of the Dail.

No, the thread is a petulant whinge at the Greens because they won't immediatelly come hither for a good shafting when FF waft the "Essense of Political Power" bottle under their noses.:)

Macy

irish1 wrote:

I think FF are playing a waiting game for Greens to say no to a deal and then Labour will have to join FF "in the national interest".

It may well come to pass, but it's hard to argue the "national interest" when there are two clear alternative coalition partners. imo the national interest excuse would've only washed when the only numbers stacking up were FF/SF or FF/Labour.

Voipjunkie

mickd wrote:

For an observer of politics I am suprised that you equate cleaners of Lenister house with public representives, there is a difference one is elected the other isn't.

He is there to negotiate on behalf of his party whether he is an elected representative or not is largely irrelevant. The Greens are sending in the best people they have available to negotiate it is hardly surprising given it is a small party that not all those negotiating are elected representatives.
The decision at the end of the day is down to the entire membership of the greens not just the 6 elected TDs.
It would be bizarre in the extreme if they left the best negotiator out because he had failed to win a seat.