omaha, extracting value vs. betting the fudge out of it!?

ditpoker

Green Joke Poker New Orleans 0.25/0.50, hand converted by the iPoker Converter (http://www.talking-poker.com/hands/converter.aspx) at Talking-Poker (http://www.talking-poker.com)

Button coutain ($11.80)
SB ditpoker ($97.45)
BB chayluong ($53.80)
UTG prestonman ($30.17)
UTG+1 contys ($87.85)
CO runars ($26.50)

Preflop: ditpoker is in the SB with As Ah 2c 5c
prestonman calls 0.50, contys calls 0.50, 1 fold, coutain calls 0.50, ditpoker calls 0.25, chayluong checks.

Flop (2.50) Ac 3c Qh
ditpoker checks, chayluong checks, prestonman checks, contys checks, coutain bets 2.50, ditpoker calls 2.50, 2 folds, contys calls 2.50.

Turn (10.00) 8h
ditpoker bets 4, contys calls 4, coutain calls 4.

River (22.00) Jd
ditpoker bets 6, 1 fold, coutain moves all-in for 4.80

coutain shows Kh 3s Tc Qd
ditpoker shows As Ah 2c 5c

coutain wins 32.80 with A straight, Ace high
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i figure i should be betting the fudge out of this on the flop, i check call which is bad, should i lead or check raise?

on the turn I have a reason for only betting $4 and that is so that coutain who has 8.40 left, i figure if he's gonna stay in the hand he'll re-open it for me to re-pop it on the turn, which didnt happen!

i've only played a small amount of omaha but i'm fast learning (at the lower stakes anyway) that if you flop a monster i should just pot pot pot.... and sometimes i will get called, sometimes I wont.

Trippie

jeff on the flop id say you have to pot it when its made 2.50 as you have top set and a small flush draw. even if someone has a higher draw you have two blockers reducing their chance of hitting

BigCityBanker

AAxx does not play well 5 ways OOP, pot preflop when it gets to you, Pot/CR the flop you will get looked up by people with broadway wrap, club draws and possibly wheel wraps not to mention QQ, 33 and AQ if they are out there.

Having stuffed the flop you then stuff the turn again which is a great card for you, having stuffed the turn your work is all but done.

EDIT - potting preflop is not always standard but given the number of callers you should be able to thin the field sufficiently to justify a pot raise preflop.

ditpoker

i've stopped potting AAxx, KKxx preflop. In the small sample size i've seen is too often people pot it with AAxx, flop comes down Q95, and they go broke against someone with JTxx, or Q9xx etc etc. I've found at 10c-20c that people are happy to go broke with AAxx, and if ever someone pots it from late position i'm more than happy to see a flop with 3578 or something that could crush AA. at the end of the day AA is just one pair which is worth f*** all in omaha at the river.

I know i messed up the above hand (but turned the session around for a nice profit!) but should i be trying to get sneaky and maximise value or just bet bet bet with a hand like that!?

bohsman

Pot AA preflop, dont be afraid to get away from it on the flop. Bet bet bet especially in multiway pots.

Lafortezza

ditpoker wrote:

i've stopped potting AAxx, KKxx preflop.

You shouldn't stop potting these hands. They should be your biggest winners over a good sample size.
You just need to learn when to drop them after the flop. The toughest players to play against are the very aggressive ones who raise alot preflop in position and are aggro after the flop too.

Raising AA preflop make the pot bigger on the flop, thins the field going to the flop and gives you a chance to get it all in preflop if someone else decides to reraise you.

Flop (2.50) Ac 3c Qh
ditpoker checks, chayluong checks, prestonman checks, contys checks, coutain bets 2.50, ditpoker calls 2.50, 2 folds, contys calls 2.50.

Turn (10.00) 8h
ditpoker bets 4, contys calls 4, coutain calls 4.

You really really have to bet the full maximum here, there's 2 flush draws and anyone with KJTx has a good draw too. You could always go for a c/r, because you will be charging the maximum to the drawing people, and if it gets checked around then the pot will be reasonably small on the river. If the river comes something like the Jh you get away from the hand having only put in about $4.

BigCityBanker

ditpoker wrote:

i've stopped potting AAxx, KKxx preflop. In the small sample size i've seen is too often people pot it with AAxx, flop comes down Q95, and they go broke against someone with JTxx, or Q9xx etc etc. I've found at 10c-20c that people are happy to go broke with AAxx, and if ever someone pots it from late position i'm more than happy to see a flop with 3578 or something that could crush AA. at the end of the day AA is just one pair which is worth f*** all in omaha at the river.

I think this is wrong. Flipper posted about this last week or so. Potting AAxx oop when you are never going to thin the field is bad, I think you had an opportunity to thin the field here.

Raising good hands in position is probably never a bad thing so raising AAxx in position should be good long term.

I think it has to do with your expectations for the result of your pot bet, preflop its to thin the field.

Potting preflop and potting anyflop is bad play and is no doubt a long term loser - the texture of the flop should dictate your post flop play.

Killme00

BigCityBanker wrote:

Potting preflop and potting anyflop is bad play and is no doubt a long term loser - the texture of the flop should dictate your post flop play.

dot

Depenidng on how deep you are compared to the blind levels, there are ocassions when not potting it preflop with AAxx is the corrcet play...however at these levels you should always be willing to pot it preflop and lay it down postflop...you will win more than you lose

imalegend

I think in this instance the pre flop call is fine.when the flop hits you want to check raise here if you dont lead.Same with the turn.OOP AAxx isnt great multi way but when you hit the flop you need to get it in asap on the flop and the turn as BCB said.

I would check raise the max here and pot the turn in order to win this pot IMO.Im no omaha expert though!!(yet)hehe