I.T job expectations

Timmy_d

Has anyone here that has done a degree in I.T walked straight into a good job without experience...because of the usual 2-3 yrs experience,where would be the best country or city to apply for jobs in networking? i heard new zealand and australia was supposed to be looking for I.T graduates and would be willing to travel....

Stephen

Most IT graduates have to put in their time at the bottom of the ladder (i.e. tech support of some kind) for the first year or two.

pclancy

Helpdesk or 1st line tech support usually get people into networking type roles after a while or field service etc. I was lucky and had done loads of part time stuff and had the practical knowladge in my head which got me the job instead of my qualifications.

Look around though, send in your CV to loads of tech companies and see what happens.

Spud83

Depends on the kind of job your looking for. If you are looking to do tech support , or something like that you should find a good job easy enough. If you are looking to get into programming it can be tougher as there is alot of people competiting for the same jobs. Talk to your college careers advisor if possible and be willing to start at the bottom.

Timmy_d

Ideally i would love to get into network security and see this area as being one that will always be in demand..i will have my degree in networking and a ccna,i could have went into tech support before i started college but maybe that piece of paper may benefit me somewhere down the line,i dont want to start in tech support though after i finish,4 years for 20k what a joke,its funny these days you dont really hear of anyone getting anything other than tech support after their degree...

damnyanks

Big stinky multinationals, especially the big 4 account types have this sort of stuff. Check out deliotte

Raskolnikov

Timmy_d wrote:

Has anyone here that has done a degree in I.T walked straight into a good job without experience

A well paying job or a job that provides relevent experience?

Timmy_d

a well paying job

Chardee MacDennis

its not very IT but i have an IT degree and I am working in one of the big 4 in their IT Efficiency section all of the starters would come straight from college and have little to no experience. money isnt great, especially when you knwo what they charge us out at but their are annual salary increases which are significant percentage increases.

pm me if you want more info.

the_syco

Timmy_d wrote:

4 years for 20k what a joke,its funny these days you dont really hear of anyone getting anything other than tech support after their degree...

Not having a dig at you, but the joke is someone fresh out of college who never worked in IT thinking that they should be paid megabucks straight off. Only people with 1.1 degree's get that.

Get this into your head, lad. A degree can help you move up quickly, but rarely give you a shortcut up the ladder. No-one wants someone fresh out of college, esp someone who thinks they know it all (and unless you have a 1.1 degree, you don't).

run_Forrest_run

I graduated in '99 and walked straight into a good development job, I secured the job the previous December during the milk rounds in college. However given the state of the IT Sector today I'd say it is hard for grads.

And yes, a lot of companies are looking for IT people with 2-4 years experience and are not willing to pay the decent wage...this is what our government call the cream of IT eh! Nonsense, large multinationals like Motorola who employed a lot of highly educated people in Cork shut down and what is taking its place?? Nothing except a few tech support jobs or call centre jobs. This is not the way we should be directing the IT Industry, we are losing the cream of the IT jobs and being dumped with the low paying less demanding jobs.

i71jskz5xu42pb

run_Forrest_run wrote:

I graduated in '99 and walked straight into a good development job, I secured the job the previous December during the milk rounds in college. However given the state of the IT Sector today I'd say it is hard for grads.

alanmurphy83 wrote:

If you are looking to get into programming it can be tougher as there is alot of people competiting for the same jobs.

I don't know where you guys are getting this. The number of people graduating from programming courses (science in general) has plummeted in the last few years (knock on from the dot com bust I gather). When I graduated from Comp Sci in 96 there were 60 people in the class - same class is now graduating circa 20 people.

We're looking for graduate programmer at the moment and finding it very difficult to find a suitable candidate. And this is a programming job (not help desk, bug fixing or testing) so I would assume it would be reasonably sought after.

Maybe the IT sector is not as hot as it was in 99 but there seems to be more than enough jobs for the number of graduates out there.

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

markpb

I went into a development job straight out of college too. It probably helped that I'd done a six months work placement (development) as part of my degree (DCU, CA).

rick_fantastic

i went straight from college into a it dept with one guy working in it. getting experience in all aspects of the area from programming, citrix, server 03 and exchange, voip and cisco networking and firewalls, linux, it training and of course a certain level of support.

im on 32500 a year with the company paying for me to do an mbs

saying that i have 4 yrs support experience and various summer programming / networking jobs....

getting yourself some experience while your in college is invaluable and you will find it hard to get good money unless you have something to back up your degree

Raskolnikov

Well, the situation with graduate jobs in Ireland is a joke. I have a 1H degree with relevent experience in software development. Out of the 20 or so companies I've applied to for advertised positions, maybe 10 even bothered getting back to me (Irish companies almost never get back to you). Out of those that got back to me, I got 6 interviews/assessments. Out of that, I got two job offers.

The first offer from IBM of €25K which I thought was an insult considering I had experience in the exact role they were requiring. Not only that but there were zero job benefits and no salary review for at least 24 months (I kid you not).

The second offer was from a financial who offered €28K, still a poor salary but at least it scales upward at a decent rate. They also provided proper training, health insurance, bonuses, etc.

Try looking into companies in the UK. Starting salaries over there are at very least €30K, not only do you get more money but rent/utilities/food/car insurance are cheaper. I would be over there like a shot but for commitments I have here.

Alternatively, look into the Civil Service. Adminsitrative/Executive Officer start on €31K and this scales upwards a few times a year! Job security, more holidays, benefits, etc. I'm actually still waiting to hear on the tests I did with them, if I get an offer of a job, I'll certainly take it.

markpb

Raskolnikov does have a good point about the civil service. This september's intake into the Revenue start off on 32k. You have to agree to move (Kildare I think) in a year or two but if you're happy enough working in the civil service, it's not a bad way to start.

On the other hand, 25-28k for a graduate, even with some experience, isn't bad. You can definitely do better but like they say, money isn't everything. A good job where you'll get a lot of experience will probably stand to you in the long term. My first job started at 25k and moved to 32k over two years. My current job is over 43k + travel + benefits. The main reason I got my new job (and got more money than I asked for) was because in my previous job I worked with C, C++, C#, VB, Java, ASP.net, JavaCard, smartcards, point of sale hardware, cryptography, biometrics and did a little bit of design/architecture. It's worth putting the effort in rather than taking a high paid job and (possibly) getting sidelined into one particular area.

the_syco

PaschalNee wrote:

We're looking for graduate programmer

...

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

No offense, but I hate those vague ads, which don't say what language you'll be doing, etc. Not my area, but if you said what language's they'd be doing, I'd say you'd get more of a response.

I'm going for the Tech Support roles, as I like Tech Support, but all to often I'd come across an ad for a "Tech Support" job, who needs 2 years experience. Doesn't say what you'd be supporting, just that they pay good. In my books, that usually means its a sh|te job. Current job is €20,600 which may not be great, but the job is nice, the people & bosses easy to get on with, so its cool. If I'm looking for a job, it'll have to pay better, but still be cool. Maybe in 10 years or so, I'll go for one of them high paying, high stress jobs, but untill then, nay.

keystone

Employing graduates is high risk. You can be lucky but in general you get someone who believes that they know everything. This may be so in a acadmeic environment however in the real world, it's not the case.

I would prefer to employ someone with experience and no qualifications than someone with qualifications and no experience.

As it stands I have a Helpdesk role available in Waterford that requires .NET and SQL experience. The best candidates will be the ones with experience unfortunately.

My advise concurs with what has already been said, get a Tech/Helpdesk support role and work from there.

run_Forrest_run

PaschalNee wrote:

I don't know where you guys are getting this. The number of people graduating from programming courses (science in general) has plummeted in the last few years (knock on from the dot com bust I gather). When I graduated from Comp Sci in 96 there were 60 people in the class - same class is now graduating circa 20 people.

We're looking for graduate programmer at the moment and finding it very difficult to find a suitable candidate. And this is a programming job (not help desk, bug fixing or testing) so I would assume it would be reasonably sought after.

Maybe the IT sector is not as hot as it was in 99 but there seems to be more than enough jobs for the number of graduates out there.

Or maybe I'm just missing something here?

I am basing my comments on my own experience, that is where I am getting it from.

Also just to remark on your job ad why don't you post the salary? If you are really looking for someone good you will have to pay them reasonably. Also your job ad is very vague. To be honest it looks like something thrown together by a typical HR head with little or no solid knowledge in the IT game.

i71jskz5xu42pb

the_syco wrote:

No offense, but I hate those vague ads, which don't say what language you'll be doing, etc. Not my area, but if you said what language's they'd be doing, I'd say you'd get more of a response.

None taken, I agree with you. The advertisement appears to have been truncated. A lot of these sites take the job spec submitted and reformat it - it looks like something was lost in translation. It should look more like this or this.
Thanks for the heads up.

run_Forrest_run wrote:

Also just to remark on your job ad why don't you post the salary?

We pay salary based on the abilities of the candidate. The quality of candidates varies a lot. So the best we could do is a pretty wide range which I don't think would be useful.

run_Forrest_run wrote:

If you are really looking for someone good you will have to pay them reasonably.

Which we've no problem with.

BostonB

There seems to a big disparity between people saying we can get people, and other saying that no where is hiring or are interested.

We are struggling to find a few developers. But we are looking for people with a few years experience, the money is on the low side and the jobs are down the country in the middle of nowhere. Also the work IMO for these roles isn't all that interesting. To me it makes perfect sense why we're finding it hard. We wanted 4 got 2, and one of those has already left within a few months for something more interesting.

omahaid

keystone wrote:

Employing graduates is high risk. You can be lucky but in general you get someone who believes that they know everything. This may be so in a acadmeic environment however in the real world, it's not the case.

I would prefer to employ someone with experience and no qualifications than someone with qualifications and no experience.

As it stands I have a Helpdesk role available in Waterford that requires .NET and SQL experience. The best candidates will be the ones with experience unfortunately.

My advise concurs with what has already been said, get a Tech/Helpdesk support role and work from there.

My own experience is that depending on the job, grads may be the only ones you can get with relevant experience. I finished CS a few weeks ago, had a job lined up since March. It is in hardware programming (which I did on my placement) combined with compression/cryptography (compression was my final year project). It would be next to impossible (I would imagine) to find people who didn't do an academic course that would have knowledge in these areas. Money and perks are pretty good and I'm happy I made the right choice.

My advice is that if you want development, hold out for development, don't take something to tide you over. Computing is such a wide area there does seem to be something to suit everyone Plus. there seems to be a lot of my classmates with jobs lined up, things don't seem to be too bad for grads this year!