Really passive line with KK.

RedJoker

Donkkong is 13/6/3.5 over 92 hands, he multitables.

So far on this table I'm 15/13/inf over about 30 hands at that table. I'm not sure what he's seen me do on other tables though.

He seems like a very tight but capable player and is winning over the hands I have on him. I don't remember seeing him 3 bet before.

Game # 582591429 - Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 0.10/0.20 - Table "Stockvik"

Players(max 6):
donkkong (EUR 35.64 in seat 1)
ya-kfc (EUR 17.36 in seat 2)
StingnWo (EUR 34.37 in seat 3)
*Toukka* (EUR 14.04 in seat 4)
riddik23 (EUR 4.55 in seat 5)
RedJoker (EUR 23.85 in seat 6)

Dealer: donkkong
Small Blind: ya-kfc (0.10)
Big Blind: StingnWo (0.20)

Redjoker was dealt: K - K

*Toukka* Fold
riddik23 Fold
RedJoker Raise (0.80)
donkkong Raise (2.40)
ya-kfc Fold
StingnWo Fold
RedJoker Call (1.60)

Flop 4 - 6 - A

RedJoker Check
donkkong Bet (4.00)
RedJoker ??

My questions are, should I be 4 betting this preflop regardless of villain? What about the flop, should I lead here? And finally fold/call/raise/push?

I played this very passively and I'm not happy with it, please berate me so I don't do it again.

Mr.Plough

you played it fine although 4betting pf isn't bad either

i probably just crai the flop

valor

no,no, call

Flushdraw

I'd 4bet preflop to $8 and fold to a push from this villain.
As played, i call the flop bet and re-evaluate the turn

fuzzbox

At these stakes, when I get reraised, and I have KK, then I go all-in preflop.

As played, call the flop for sure.

Mr.Plough

how bad is cr on the flop?

if we call the flop and dont hit a heart on the turn, we're most like going to be facing another bullet.

so wheres the merit in just calling?

dvdfan

valor wrote:

no,no, call

Just wondering whats your taughts on this Valor

No To the 4 Bet?

I agree with not leading the flop, were Pushing out hands were ahead of and only getting called by hands we beat so check calling down seems ok here as we still have outs to improve to the nuts.

I dont think playing this hand aggressively is a good thing because if the 4th heart arrives then were not likely to get paid off so were in line to lose a big hand or win a small one if we get very aggressive here. So we check call here and let him bluff with QQ-JJ or a lone heart and hope to hit the heart by the river and maybe get a small bit of value if we improve on turn or river. Is this about right?

dvdfan

Flushdraw wrote:

I'd 4bet preflop to $8 and fold to a push from this villain.

I assume you say this because he is so tight but otherwise would never consider folding KK preflop but i still dont know about folding to a push, youll see AK and QQ alot at this level.

bman

Why do people say to call this? He's only getting a bit over 2:1 on the flop and if a heart falls on the turn how likely is he to get paid to make up his implied odds for calling the flop bet? I'm actually asking this because I'm curious, not because I'm saying it's wrong.

Mr.Plough

dvdfan wrote:

I assume you say this because he is so tight but otherwise would never consider folding KK preflop but i still dont know about folding to a push, youll see AK and QQ alot at this level.

i don't think anyone 5bet shoves with anything less than aa kk at this level

valor

he asked does he have to 4 bet regardless of the opponent, and the answer to that is unequivocally no. against alot of good opponents my standard line here is to call to TRAP and to get them to put more money into the pot while drawing very thin

one thing to note about opponents with these stats is that they very often like to slowplay big hands pf - one regular in my games plays 15/5 and when he 3 bets preflop he always has garbage but when he cold calls you've got to be scared..

dvdfan

bman wrote:

Why do people say to call this? He's only getting a bit over 2:1 on the flop and if a heart falls on the turn how likely is he to get paid to make up his implied odds for calling the flop bet? I'm actually asking this because I'm curious, not because I'm saying it's wrong.

I think its an interesting Hand, but hes PFR range is very tight here and id imagine hes 3 betting range is even tighter maybe AA-JJ and AK. That leaves him Behind AA and AK and ahead of JJ-QQ and splitting with KK, if he bets here hes probably folding out JJ-QQ the 2 hands he beats but check calling allows the villain to bluff with the worse hand and it should also control the pot size. If the villain fires another pot sized bet on a blank turn then id fold but were likely to get a cheap showdown on this board and have probably a better than 50/50 chance of having the winning hand if the above ranges are correct. Hes range could well include the likes of AJ and TT aswell here

Flushdraw

dvdfan wrote:

I assume you say this because he is so tight but otherwise would never consider folding KK preflop but i still dont know about folding to a push, youll see AK and QQ alot at this level.

Mr.Plough wrote:

i don't think anyone with those stats 5bet shoves with anything less than aa kk at this level

Mr.Plough answered this for me

RedJoker

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Preflop I chose to call because I didn't like where I was in the hand and I wanted to keep the pot small, against nearly every other opponent it's an automatic 4 bet.

Mr.Plough wrote:

i don't think anyone 5bet shoves with anything less than aa kk at this level

You'd be surprised, I've had A-J 5 bet shove into me before, or maybe he called my 5 bet shove. This obv isn't a consideration here though.

I decided to fold the flop because:

bman wrote:

Why do people say to call this? He's only getting a bit over 2:1 on the flop and if a heart falls on the turn how likely is he to get paid to make up his implied odds for calling the flop bet? I'm actually asking this because I'm curious, not because I'm saying it's wrong.

I don't see anything in his range paying me off if I hit except for QxQh. I also feel that I'm behind to the rest of his range here.

I still don't like the way I played this hand though, any comments on my reasoning?