live hand, bottom set on dry board

El Stuntman

Sporting Aquarium, last night. 1/2 PLHE Main Table

It's around 5am and the decent players (jbravado, Full Tilt lads etc) have departed the scene. The table is awash with fishy types, one of whom has taken about 300 off me when paying to hit his middle pin on a paired board when I flopped trip jacks :eek: .

I had been playing quite tight for the table (lol, this means seeing only 50% of flops ) but have now switched gear. I've shown a successful bluff two hands previously.

Hand in question played as follows:

Villain 1: MP, playing about 800. Ultra loose-aggro, stabbing at most orphan pots.

Villain 2: CO, playing 350. Total station. Drunk or stoned, not sure which.

Moi: Button, playing 700 or so. Probably have a loose image now.

Blind raise to 7 and 3 limpers. I limp with 22, SB folds, BB calls.

Pot = 46

Flop is 942 rainbow.

BB and blind raiser both check

Villain 1 bets 25
Villain 2 calls

I make it 100

Everyone folds.

bleh.

Opinions?

Gus Ivey

hmm , looks good . u have to bet the turn , maybe a little less?60 or 70?

sorry completely miss read,, i would just call the flop... then bet/raise the turn

eggie

Depends on your outlook for the hand. On this flop your not going to get much action TBH, if you want to take it down now, as played is fine. If you want to give them a chance to hit their hand, then check and hope for an A,K,Q turn so you can extract more value and suck them in.

BobSloane

Yeah you let villian 1 especially off too light here. If he's ultra agro he'll prob bet the turn too where u can raise him if you like. These guys will often keep stabbing until they get raised and you give him an easy decision straight away. Think on that board you should usually give them another card

BigCityBanker

on that board i prefer a call on the flop.

bops

i'd probably raise (if i felt like raising) to 75

dont be too hard on yourself here, sometimes here you will get zero, sometimes you'll get the lot

valor

this thread is dumb, raising is fine here and so is calling, its just bbv they folded

Cuban Son

valor wrote:

this thread is dumb, raising is fine here and so is calling, its just bbv they folded

Not sure if the thread is dumb Valor, no disrespect.
A lot of people that i've played and dealt to live tend to over play sets and end up not getting the maximum out of the hand.
Sets are one of the hands you are going to get paid on the most in cash games and getting it wrong can cost you by not playing them properly.
Too often you see guys shouting POT at the dealer on such boards instantly setting off alarm bells to anyone paying attention.

To the OP, I think on a board like that and with your position there really is no need to raise here. When you have two weaker players betting into you on such a dry board you really don't want to scare them away, its better to slow play a set as most people just don't see it.
If its a draw heavy or textured flop then your raise is good here to make people pay for their cards.
By raising now it gives your strength away. Not that they'll put you on a set but you're showing too much strength on such a weak board. Unless they have shown strength pre-flop, which clearly they haven't, you want them there till the river still betting into you.
I think you should just call on the flop, let them catch up. If an Ace or King hits on the turn it probably helps them.
I think in this situation you are in a great position to build the pot without scaring them away.
With the bet on the flop the pot is already €121 if you just flat call.
If they bet €40 or so on the turn raise it to €85-€100, (or about 2 and a half times the villans bet) to extract more without scaring them off.
By time the river comes there should be €400+ in the pot if they're both still there. Then value bet the river.

El Stuntman

thanks CS, that is pretty much what I should have done (just hoped they had been paying attention to previous action and would go to war with top pair). Oh well.

Valor, at least your vocabulary has expanded!

Cuban Son

El Stuntman wrote:

thanks CS, that is pretty much what I should have done (just hoped they had been paying attention to previous action and would go to war with top pair). Oh well.

The amount of times I've shown hands to advertise a certain image and then get done over is countless. Most players don't see what you did two hands earlier as a reason for playing that hand the same.
The whole advertise and set up is wasted on most cash players in Dublin either because they are drunk, stoned or they don't have the imagination to be able to put a story together; they just don't pay enough attention. In those games ABC is the way to go.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Flushdraw

I'm amazed that both of them folded to your raise TBH and thats only based on your description! I can imagine you fully expected at least 1 of them to call.

Dont think theres much wrong with the raise although i may make it 70-75 to give them VALUE to call whatever draw they were chasing. As Lloyd says, if either has A9 or K9, theyre probably going to put their tanks in, its just a pity that one had *47o and the other has *Q8o so they couldnt call.

*educated estimate

Macspower

I think the raise is ok. Against these guys you want to play a big pot.. you have a big stack and it's the only way your going to get it in the middle.... calling isn't going to get 700 in the middle by the river... if one of them had TP or an overpair it's payday... i think this play is correct in this situation... Just my opinion

Cuban Son

Am I missing something here? No offense but you have an aggro bettor and a calling station betting and calling into you and you want to scare them out of the pot by raising 50 times the bb or 4 times the flop bet on such a dry board . Why?
We clearly have the best hand by a distance. You don't want to get rid of these guys, you want them to keep on betting and encourage them enough to part with their money not raise them enough to know they can't win the pot.
I agree with you Lloyd when you say we are playing for stacks here, but there are subtler ways than trying to scare it out of them.
Slowley, slowley, catchey donkey.

RoundTower

raising here is good because otherwise someone might fold a 9 on a later street, if it was 26Q or K i might think about calling. If you raise here you get called by any 9.