Donk Bet vs Pot Building

Rickyroma

Main table SE 1/2 pot limit holdem.

I've joined the table 3 hands previously, and managed to treble up thanks to getting it all in with 10 9 on a 10 9 6 flop to hit runnering 10's for quads. Table contains 2 players whom I would be very wary of and the usual suspects who are pretty much capable of anything. My image is probably weak-tight for anyone who recognises me. (working on this)

Dealt 10h Jh in the SB. (playing 500)

UTG calls.
UTG+1 calls.
MP2 calls.
MP3 raises to 12.

Folded to me and I bet 12 (missed the raise:( )
Utg, Utg+1 and MP2 call.


Flop Ac Kd Qs.

I check, as does everyone else.

Turn 7h completing the rainbow. (pot 60)

I lead out for 15.

I realise that 1/4 pot bet is very weak, but I figured that at least 2 players have to have some of the flop and that someone will re-raise. I was pretty sure that if I checked it would be checked around again, as the blank on the turn could hardly have helped anyone.

So the question-
Is my oop under bet a donk play? Should I check and rely on someone else to build the pot for me?

Mr.Plough

a donk bet is when you bet a street after someone else was the agressor on the previous street. eg someone raises pf and you call oop. flop comes down and you bet.

as it was checked around on the flop this isnt a donk bet.

bet more though

Macspower

checking the first time to the original raiser is ok and hope for a c-bet.... I would definately bet now. your bet is not too bad but I would still bet 2/3 of the pot... you have a massive hand and you want to get your money in the middle.... checking wont get your money in.

Mac

valor

i hate this bet

also, this is a great spot to lead the flop

Hectorjelly

valor wrote:

i hate this bet

also, this is a great spot to lead the flop

Yeah, for $2

HalfBaked

What are the stack sizes? If we are all deep I like leading the flop as Macs says to build the pot and play a big pot.

I find a lot players in these games will re raise a 2/3 pot on the flop from you with hands like AK/AQ & KQ. This can be a great way of getting all the money in. You will also be called a lot by hands like A10/AJ/KJ/K10.

Samba

Mr.Plough wrote:

a donk bet is when you bet a street after someone else was the agressor on the previous street. eg someone raises pf and you call oop. flop comes down and you bet.

as it was checked around on the flop this isnt a donk bet.

bet more though

a donkabet can come from the aggressor, it usually results in a 1 bb bet into a pot of anywhere between 8 and 100 bbs

Rickyroma

HalfBaked wrote:

What are the stack sizes? If we are all deep I like leading the flop as Macs says to build the pot and play a big pot.

I find a lot players in these games will re raise a 2/3 pot on the flop from you with hands like AK/AQ & KQ. This can be a great way of getting all the money in. You will also be called a lot by hands like A10/AJ/KJ/K10.

Stack sizes were (me) 500, 150, 400, 1100 and 800 (roughly). Was hoping someone had pair and draw or two pair, but no one seemed to want any of this hand.


Many thanks for the replies.


FWIW my 15 got 1 caller, river a blank, he folded to my 35. Absolutely hated my play here; I doubt I could have won less, hence the thread.


As suggested, betting 1/2 or 2/3 the pot on the flop and either betting or check raising (if villain is very aggressive) a blank turn is prolly the best line it would seem.

Samba

Few points.

You initially intended to raise this out of the SB with J10s?

I really don't like this, you are going to get 5-6 callers, what happens when you miss do you cont. bet into 5 hands to act behind you?

Even calling the raise out of the SB is very marginal for a number of reasons.

You are OOP against 5-6 opponents.

When you call this raise, the villains in position have the edge, alot of the time everyone will miss and the position raiser will take the pot down with a cont. bet

Let's say you catch top pair and bet pot into 5 players, what hands are calling you? You are in bad shape against anyone who calls or raises generally speaking.

Dump it Pre flop, raise this hand in Position and call raises in position when getting good pot odds. In these live cash games you will often get laid odds of over 5-1 preflop, that's the nature of the games...

On the flop, just lead out like you would if you hit top pair 2/3 of the pot.

xha1r

Samba wrote:

Few points.

You initially intended to raise this out of the SB with J10s?

I really don't like this, you are going to get 5-6 callers

Don't we want as many callers as poss?

We're either going to hit hard, and play back against aggression (fd, oesd, 2p, J-high flop) or miss which in any case was likely to result in a b/f or c/f even if we only had 1/2 callers?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Mr.Plough

Samba wrote:

a donkabet can come from the aggressor, it usually results in a 1 bb bet into a pot of anywhere between 8 and 100 bbs

thats a min bet. just because a bet is made by a donkey doesnt make it a donkbet.

bops

lead at the flop - 1/2 2/3 pot - you are either gonna make a lot here or v little - you cant help it if noone else had a hand here - just unlucky

bops

a donk bet is leading out at a flop into the path of the origional raiser afaik

bops

LuckyLloyd wrote:

It is a common misconception that J10s plays well in a multi - way pot. It doesn't; and is a garbage hand when taking a flop five or six handed.

complete bs - it's one of the best drawing hands in the game - where did you dig that fact up from?? NITS weekly mag or something?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

RoundTower

I would push preflop, since you are going to flop the nuts you want as much money in as possible.

Samba

Mr.Plough wrote:

thats a min bet. just because a bet is made by a donkey doesnt make it a donkbet.

Can you give me the definition of a poker superstar bet too please? (please check sarcometer power levels)

Back to the hand....

Bops does make a valid point, yes it's a good drawing hand, just not out of position, in this spot Lloyd is right, it's total thrash.

I agree with RT, all in PF.

BuChan

LuckyLloyd wrote:

It is a common misconception that J10s plays well in a multi - way pot. It doesn't; and is a garbage hand when taking a flop five or six handed.

i guess he means that if you flop a straight/flush/combo draw you'll have better odds to play it passively and just call?
i think it's an ok hand to play oop in a super loose passive game such as the SE where you're implied odds are through the roof. hero is 250 bb blinds deep and some villians cover him, you're getting nearly 5to1 (assuming the others call, which is a gimme ) with a medium strength hand with potential.

Marq

Lead flop for close to the pot.
Your turn bet makes me want to cry.

BuChan

Marq wrote:

Lead flop for close to the pot.
Your turn bet makes me want to cry.

LOL!