What Road Wheels??

Stereophonic

Hi

I am considering three options of Bike wheels to buy for my Racing Bike. I currently have a custom Full Carbon Lapierre Racing Bike and would like new Carbon Wheels.

1). Easton Wheel Road Set Tempest II Carbon Tubular
€1500 - delivered from America
http://www.teamcyclist.com/store/Easton-Wheel-Road-Set-Tempest-II-Carbon-Tubular-ID_P985C1271.cfm

2). Zipp 606 Tubular Wheelset '07
€1565 - Or the 808 series at €1648
http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=90&idproduct=14201


3). Mavic Cosmic Carbon SL Wheel Set
€1054
http://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=89&idproduct=4309

Your help would be much appreciated. I'm not sure what ones are best value for their money. I like the look of the Easton ones and heard good reviews about them. Has anyone ever cycled with them, please let me know

They are alot of money but it's a sport I'm passionate about and I spend all my money of it. No Car on the agenda yet

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I know this is a stupid question for a roadie like myself but Can I upgrade the Crank and leave the rest of the groupset on the bike or do i need a complete new groupset to do that? Much appreciated,

E@gle.

what are carbon wheels like on irish roads??? DO they buckle easily or are they fairly ridgit??

Quigs Snr

All nice wheels. Can't go wrong with any of those, the clincher cosmics are cheap to run and although heavier, a bit tougher for Irish roads.

I went ultra cheap (in terms of price mind, not quality) with my carbon wheels, I got Planet X Pro Carbon 50's. (They use the HED/Vuelta Rim) and come in about 750 euro delivered ! Tubs only though and obviously not quite as deep as the ones you mention above, there are clinchers but they are much more expensive. Run well for me, definitely make a difference over my other wheels (Krysium SL's / American Classic 420's) especially on Solo efforts. That aside they go well with the look of my race bike, shame about the waste of space sitting on it (missed a winters training so am scarcely good enough to race it, feel like a plank showing up on it these days !, usually show up to league races etc.. on an older Trek 5500)


Anyway, this is what the Planet X wheels look like on my bike. I find them plenty tough, roads where I am are not great, no problems yet, plus they come with a crash warranty, If you bust em in a crash within 2 years, you send them back and Planet X will give you a new set half price, or something like that. I am pretty easy on them, I am not that heavy (67kg currently - normal weight when race fit 62kg). I know people who race on Zipp 404's and the Mavics Cosmics, Cosmics you can use all year round, the lads on the zipps have been doing the RAS and one of them is a pro and they find them great, although the pro did bust one I think last year, which corresponds with reports I hear every now and then about the Zipps being a little fragile.

And yes you can change cranks, I have an FSA Carbon crank on mine with Dura Ace everywhere else. If you are changing from Ultegra to Dura Ace or Chorus to Record that kind of thing then you will have no problems at all (assuming bottom bracket setup is the same)

Stereophonic

I'm glad I posted here actually.. Thanks

The Planet X are within my budget and they look the business. Looking at the 82 and 101 aswell, they look nice. Your price looks great. Seat post looks great on your bike. i think that it's all in the wheels which makes the bike look amazing like yours. So If I buy the Planet X Carbon 50... What else do I need to get it fully set up?

About the crank, I cycle with my friend alot, He's got a Trek racer. Going down a slope, he appeared to have more torque on his chain. Could i get a new Crank with a bigger circumference while in the low gear. He seems to keep pedaling and I just can't pedal anymore, all I do is glide and see him in distance.

I live for speed for my bikes so I want to make it as fast as possible. Unfortunately, I'm not racing this year, only training but wait till next season.

Thanks Quig, cheers

Quigs Snr

Well the wheels come just as wheel rims with hubs and spokes obviously. You need to buy quick release levers (£20 for the titanium ones), Brake blocks for the carbon rims (£20), Tires (I got Continental Sprinters for about 36 Euro each in Cyclesuperstore.ie). Valve Extenders (they do carbon ones, but don't work with all tires, so I just got my local bike shop to put a couple of cheapo ones in, perfect maybe 10-12 euro for the pair. After that I would get them the tires professionally fitted first time out, messy business, maybe 15-20 more euro. It worked out about 770 euro for me including delivery and everything else listed above except the tires and the fitting of the tires.

The crank on your bike might not be the problem. Find out what kind of chainrings you have, most race cyclists use a 53 tooth ring as the large chainring. Chances are thats what you have too unless you have Shimano 105 in which case you have a 52 probably. But that should be no issue. Usually its the cassette on the back you need to change. You could have a 12-25, if you upgrade to an 11-23 (the 11 being the important number here as the smallest cog), then that will make a nice difference on the downhills, although you need to be going seriously fast to spin out a 53-12, or even a 52-12 for that matter. Find out what chainrings and rear cassettes you have first though and we will see if we can diagnose the problem.

The seatpost by the way is a Deda Supercarbon RS, not the lightest in the world, but its a good looking one !

Last thing I'd say, is try to do some sort of race this year, even if its say 5 laps of a 10 mile circuit, show up and do one or two laps if you can. That way you will have one under your belt and won't be working yourself up and psysching yourself out about how hard its going to be all winter long....

Stereophonic

Yeah I plan to do the races from July onwards, I've been busy doing exams and all. The groupset I have wouldn't be the best in my opinion compared to the Ultegra Shimano. I have the Shimano Tiagra '07. It does the job but coming down Howth hill to Sutton, i loose the pedal revolutions quickly...

Can I not get wheels prepared all ready with everything? Would those examples in first thread be already assembled?

So I might consider changing the Cassette and the Crank as I do intend to upgrade to a Carbon Crank, then carbon seat post etc.

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Counted the Cassette: 12/25
Chainset Crank: Big Ring was 34/50 (hopefully I can change them)

Would you be able to give me a link for examples of cassette and Chainset (crank) suitable for my Groupset from www.cyclesuperstore.ie as I usually refer to there first for all bike purchases, Thank you very much.

Chips Lovell

I wouldn't worry about upgrading your groupset, just your crankset and/or cassette. You've got a compact crankset at the moment (50/34). For racing, changing up to a full size one (53/39) will give you a lot more at the big end and you may find yourself not needing to do anything about the cassette.

If you're shopping at the Cyclesuperstore, the full size Tiagra crankset will do the trick (€66) will do the trick. The Ultegra crankset is a little more bling and probably stiffer (€147).

Quigs Snr

What kind of bike do you have ? If you are Tiagra equipped those wheels might be overkill for you, but hey its your money and most of us pedal freaks spend silly money on parts we don't really need, sure we convince ourselves that it will make us better in some way, but really half the time is about what you want rather then what you need.

Be aware that tubulars are hard work, sounds like you don't know much about bikes so everytime you puncture you will almost certainley have to bring it to a shop to get fixed. It could work out about 40 quid a puncture for you (when you get a flat in a tub tire its easier to just throw it away). The planet X wheels come the same as all wheels, just the bare wheel (as pictured on the cyclesuperstore website), that you need to fit your tire too and put in the release lever, piece of p*ss (tubs though need to be glued so I urge you to get a professional to do it until you are comfortable with it). I am sure if you buy your wheels in Cyclesuperstore, for a few extra quid you can buy the tires and they will fit them. If you buy them from Planet X they will also sell you tires and fit them (probably charge you 10 or 20 quid a wheel to do so though)

As mentioned previously your downhill problem is your crankset. 12-25 should be loads on the back for you, but you are riding a compact up front, I rode a compact myself in the Alps last year, so I know what you mean about Spinning out on descents. Either of Tontos suggestions will work well, depends on how much you want to spend.

Stereophonic

I'm more of a person would buys stuff ready made.. When it comes to the Wheels, it's kind of a blur and I'm still fairly young learning all these parts etc.

I have a Lapierre S.Lite Carbon Frame with Easton Carbon forks with new Tiagra groupset. I'm more inclined to go buy them off Planet X. They have a great offer with the 50 series one at the moment

Would changing from a triple chainset to double chainset matter to the original groupset ?
ie. Triple 50 teeth Tiagra --> Double 53 teeth Ultegra

http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/road/index.php?module=kcart&op=view&product=wppx50offer&MMN_position=446:446

So basically, that offer will nearly have everything ready to install, all I need is me tyres???

I rather spend my savings on bikes rather than booze.. haha

Thanks a million lads.

Chips Lovell

Changing from a triple to a double shouldn't make a difference. You'll probably already have a triple specific front derailleur, but that ought to work fine with a double. As far as I know, there is only one model of Tiagra shifters which will work with both double and triples, so you won't have to use them. You'll probably have to adjust the front derailleur a little bit, but it's easy enough to do once you read up on it.

I'd listen to what Quigs is saying about tubulars. They're much more hassle to deal with than clinchers and the perfomance improvement is slight. They're definitely a bigger pain if you puncture. If it were me, I'd start racing on clinchers and switch to tubs later if I was looking for that little bit extra.

Stereophonic

Yep I think your right. I'll get the crack changed in the mean time... I'll probably get my local bike shop to install everything to give them some business. I started on Mountain Bikes and know more to them than Road bikes... :eek:

Quigs, do you get punctures often? Tubulars just require gluing the tub on and putting tyre over it?

Chips Lovell

And waiting for the glue to dry.

Stereophonic

Ok, I read this article about Tubulars

A type of tire mainly used for racing. A tubular tire has no beads; instead, the two edges of the carcass are sewn together (hence the term "sew-up") with the inner tube inside. Tubulars fit only on special rims, where they are held on by cement.

Tubulars use Presta valves. You should never use valve caps or other screwed-on valve accessories with tubulars.

For most non-competitive applications, conventional clincher tires are more appropriate.

Most people find expensive tubulars too expensive for recreational riding...but cheap tubulars are distinctly inferior to good clinchers, particularly in that they tend to be lumpy and crooked.

Comparing high-quality tubulars with clinchers, including the rims, tubes, etc, tubulars save about 50 grams per wheel...but your bike winds up heavier, because you really need to carry a complete spare tubular, as opposed to a tube and/or a patch kit. This doesn't apply if the team car is carrying spare wheels/bikes for you.

If you don't glue your tubulars on properly, they can roll off, causing you to crash. If you get a flat on the road, you can't glue your spare securely, since the glue needs to dry overnight; as a result, you have to ride very gingerly on your spare, taking it really easy on the curves and descents. If you get two flats on the same ride, you're screwed.

Some people believe that tubulars corner better in the rain...but I never go fast on wet roads anyway. If you flat in the rain, your ride is over, because there's no way to make a wet tubular stick to a wet rim.

Tubulars are fairly immune to "snake-bite" rim cuts, and may offer slightly better "suspension" action than comparable clinchers. Their rolling resistance is actually worse than good clinchers in most cases, due to flex of the glued section.

Thanks Lads, I think i'll stick to the Clincher ones from reading the negatives there, but to be honest, Anymore placed to look for reasonable wheels which are carbon and Clincher?

Chips Lovell

Well Zipp make clincher versions of nearly all their wheels and also the Mavic Cosmic Carbons come in a clincher version.

Stereophonic

Yep noticed that but I was getting a bargain there with the Planet X ones IMO. We'll see what happens. I'll let you know the outcome

Thanks

Quigs Snr

Well the article kind of sums it up. I don't agree with the whole "your bike winds up heavier" thing. No way are you carrying a spare tub and gluing it at the side of the road. If I am out on Tubs, then the race vehicles either have spare wheels, or somewhere to put me and the bike, because the race is over ! Failing that if its not a race, I carry a mobile phone ! If you do get Tubs I would use them only for racing or big events etc.. maybe bring em out on a nice sunny day to show off to the rest of the lads, but in general I would use the wheels you have to train on, especially in winter. (I take off the PlanetX's and put on my Mavic or American Classic Clinchers most of the time - Note I need to swap the brake shoes to the regular brake shoes when I do that, pretty simple, just loosen the nut on the back of the block and slide the pads out).

I would not be using Tubs all the time. Especially if I was just heading off into the mountains for a 100 mile solo spin on a Sunday morning ! A good comprimise solution for you would be to get the mavic cosmics, or any of the clincher wheels, especially if they have an aluminium brake surface, that way you can swap between your bling wheels and training wheels at leisure.

For what its worth, I have no punctured the tubulars yet, and I haven't had a puncture of any sort now for about 10,000km. I will of course go home to find both tires flat after saying that.

Performance wise, I don't think the tubs feel any different, despite all the articles about them, the wheels are no lighter than my clinchers and simply just look good and are a little bit more aero. Doesn't make any difference riding in a bunch in a race, but gives a little extra on Solo efforts, a tiny little bit mind. Less than a minute over 40k according to my very unscientific and purely speculative testing !

Cheap tubs are a waste of money, I use Continental tires on all of my bikes and you really do get what you pay for in my opinion. I use GP4000's and Attack/Force on my clinchers and the sprinters on the tubs (these are mid-range tubs with decent puncture protection).

Fitting a tub, especially to a new rim is messy, you have to put the tire on the rim then pump it and leave it overnight to stretch it, then you have to glue it and let me tell you, the glue goes everywhere, the guy in the shop doing it for me races on a similar setup and just finished his tenth or so RAS, and he was cursing them the whole time !

Bottom line is this, all this rolling resistance twaddle looks great on paper, people say clinchers have better rolling resistance etc.. well the majority of the pro teams ride tubs, so it that made a noticeable difference I wouldn't expect those guys to be still riding tubs. I believe that there is very little difference in terms of the 2 these days (For that matter half the Irish team were riding Ultegra not Dura Ace in the RAS, sponsor limitations maybe, but if there were a performance difference I am sure they would not comprimse). Tubs are more hard work. If I were you given that you are starting out, I would go clincher... If so then Mavic Cosmic Carbone, essentially metal wheels with a carbon fairing are a good year round wheel and stand up to quite a hammering, good enough for the pro boys too, I am looking at plenty of them heading up Mt Zoncolan on the Tour of Italy as I type. Zipp 404's are prettier and work well, but maybe a bit more fragile.

I don't know about changing a triple to a double, but in general triples use longer bottom brackets, plus a different left shifter on the front and sometimes a longer cage rear/front derailleur. Check it out with the boys in Cyclesuperstore, but bear in mind that a full Shimano Ultegra Grouppo is only about 550 notes.... (450ish for 105), so don't spend a whole bunch of money and end up with Tiagra !

Chips Lovell

Quigs,
How do you find the deep rims in the wind? I heard they can be a pain in cross winds?

And don't say anything more about the Giro. I'm taping it!

Quigs Snr

Good question, the Planet X are 50mm deep, but stable in the wind, no worse than a standard wheel in my opinion, not hugely so anyway. I was in a race last night with a very stiff crosswind and had no issues at all. Ditto my American Classic 420's which have a rim depth of 34mm.

My worst wheels by far in a crosswind ironically are the ones with the smallest rims, i.e. the Mavic Krysium SSC's, it must be the wide bladed spokes. They are significantly harder to handle than the Planet X.

Chips Lovell

That's interesting to hear. As it happens, I'm considering forking out for a pair of Fulcrum Racing Zeros, which of course have bladed spokes. Something to ponder.

Stereophonic

Thanks for all the advice.

I went to my local bike shop this evening. I can get the the biggest ring of 50 teeth replaced with a ring of 53 teeth for €40.00 installed. Produced by BBB. Saves me alot and the option of a whole new groupset is another option but wait until next year for that

Priced the Mavic Cosmic Wheels Clincher at €1100

el tel

Quigs Snr wrote:

Anyway, this is what the Planet X wheels look like on my bike....

Quigs that is a cracking bike and looks mega. You mentioned valve extenders in another post - have you found them successful?

I used to ride on a set of Spinergy Rev-Xs and to start I tried using valve extenders on standard tubes but these just leaked all the air fairly rapidly so eventually discovered the long valve tubes which were brilliant. My question is - can you get these as tubulars, and if so have you tried them??

The Spinergy Rev-Xs looked the dogs b0ll0cks but were a bit flexible when honking out of the saddle as the rims touched the brake blocks. They were a bit hairy in gusts or crosswinds. The front eventually delaminated after hitting a pothole. Anyway I digress...

tunney

With the value extenders you put plumbers tape around the value and then screw on the extender. Won't leak that way.

el tel

I used PTFE tape but it didn't work in my case!

Quigs Snr

Hi,

There is tape on the valve extenders I have. Not sure of the make, I got Carbon ones with the wheels, but they didn't fit the tires I bought seperately, so my local bike shop fitted them. I assume they are cheap and cheerful. They seem to work well, the tires retain pressure extremely well, I don't pump them as often as my clinchers to be honest !

Hungrycol

Stereo, I think you're being crazy spending €1k+ on wheels and retain a Tiagra groupset. Sure, I advocate spending a lot of money on wheel upgrades and of all the upgrades you do wheels is where you should spend most of your money as here you will feel the most difference. However, in your shoes, I'd get myself a pair of Fulcrum 1's or Zero’s and an Ultegra groupset for the same dosh. Unless you're going to doing some serious serious racing where €1k wheel will make the difference then I’d recommend it.

Do more homework and get tons more advice on these before you fork out over a grand on wheels while running Tiagra setup. Someone else said on here that this might be overkill. Please before you spend this money know your Titanium from your Scandium, your Record from your Dura Ace, your Octalink from your SiSi, what I’m trying to say is be more knowledgeable about what you’re buying to be in a better position to know what you need for your ability and make a better decision.

I’ve got an alu frame with Racing 3’s on a Tiagra 9 groupset and this is absolutely fine for me. Climbing Sally gap or Wicklow Gap I keep saying to myself, “IT’S NOT THE BIKE IT’S ME, IT’S NOT THE BIKE IT’S ME”.

It’s funny when people spend hundreds of euro on shaving 100 grams on a derailleur or seat post and then cycle down to the chip shop for a batter burger and chips!!

cerebus

The great Eddy Merckx said it best: "Don't buy upgrades, ride up grades"

I Shot J.R.

It's just as well I read most the posts in this thread, otherwise I would have just said use them Kevlar slicks if your roads are flat enough or use the standard bumpy mountain bike type if theres a lot of potholes on your route.

Oh wait, am I writing and not thinking or thinking and not writing! :-/

I personally use a bumpy front tyre and a Kevlar back because after my last puncture, my brother had moved out so I just robbed his front wheel, nothing to do with comfort, common sense!

Gearset on my old bike is completely f*cked, new thread coming up.

I Shot J.R.