The New Annoyance: Context Sensitive Actions

johnny_ultimate

Ok, Resident Evil 4 introduced alot of good things. The over the shoulder camera was a stroke of genius in particular. And it seemed as if those context sensitive moments - including that wonderful knife fight - were a great innovation.

Then others started using them.

It was acceptable in God of War. Did the job well, added a nice bit of variety. In the second one it started becoming a small bit of an annoyance, although still very well implemented in certain circumstances.

I played Spiderman 3 recently. Now this is when it started getting annoying. Instead of a decent combat system they just shove the game full of context sensitive moments (c) - and at the most innappropriate moments mind. As one reviewer point out, you can be walking down a non-descript corridor when a pointless context sensitive moment occurs. Cue frustration as it becomes increasingly annoying trying to tell whether the symbol on screen means the right bumper or the right trigger.

In an attempt to cool off after Spiderman 3, I gave Call of Duty 3 a whirl. This is war, I thought. No context sensitive moments here. Oh how I was proved wrong. I was unpleasantly surprised during the first level when out popped a German soldier and decided to have a completely out of context decided to engage me in a - you've guessed it! - context insensitive round of fisticuffs.

Oh Resident Evil 4, how could you do this to me?

humanji

Well, if it's any consolation, Resident Evil 4 wasn't even close to the first game to introduce that sort of thing.

johnny_ultimate

humanji wrote:

Well, if it's any consolation, Resident Evil 4 wasn't even close to the first game to introduce that sort of thing.

A somewhat soothing thought.
I knew Leon wouldnt do that to me.

TheAlmightyArse

It's a painfully stupid idea. What sense of achievement or test of skill do developers think we get out of a mechanic that's so random and obtuse, the player needs to be explicitly told what to press and when to press it, every single time? Dragon's Lair got lambasted for that kind of behaviour twenty years ago, and even that had the decency to have some kind of consistent underlying logic.

Mitch Connor

Fahreinheit (not even close to the correct spelling... ) had a lot of this, but i thought it was excellent and allowed the game to continue its look and feel, that of a movie.

Retr0gamer

I think it works really well in some cases. God of War used it well because each button press corresponded to an action by kratos and the same goes for Resi 4. However some games like Tomb Raider Legend just feel like an updated version of Dragon Lair. Blame Shenmue for dragging up the almost forgotten interactive movie era and Resi 4 for making it popular again.

Kiith

Retr0gamer wrote:

Blame Shenmue

I CAST THEE OUT!!!

Never blame Shenmue for anything, except maybe kicking a whole lot of ass (and leaving me bitterly dissapointed with the 2nd ending :mad: )

koneko

I've heard that about Spider-man 3 alright, it's supposed to be quite frustrating/annoying (more buttons to press, and in quicker succession). Some games use it well, but for others it's a lazy way out of putting in proper fighting combos or sequences.

Crucifix

I got stuck on professional mode in RE4 because I couldn't tap X fast enough to escape the first rolling boulder. I don't mind other context sensitive stuff, but the button mash marathon is always unwelcome.

humanji

I quite like it in Spiderman 3, but that could be because it has an hilarious animation of when you muck it up

It also worked well in Fahrenheit, I thought. After a few times, you don't really pay too much attention to it and just watch the action.

L31mr0d

Seems to be adopted by quite a few 3rd person games. Tomb Raider: Legend had it, so does Prince of Persia.

Personally, I like them. I'm constantly trying to pull off fluid, graceful and organized acrobatics and attacks in spiderman 3 but they always fall short imo. The context sensitive actions are these maneuvers and are usually few and far between also. I'm nearly half way into Spiderman 3 and I think I can remember maybe 4 of these scenes, and they lasted all of 30 seconds each.

The're as bad as FMV sequences albeit with a little bit more control over the outcome, and nobody used to complain about those.

Take Spiderman 3 for example, if it wasn't for these context sensitive actions the player would have no hope to accomplish the acrobatics from these scenes. The same was true of Tomb Raider: Legend. PoP was very good also, as, if pulled off correctly you could efficiently kill an opponent with 3 flicks of your sword rather than 4 minutes of brutish dog fighting.

Zillah

I have no idea what you're talking about in this thread...

grimloch

Zillah wrote:

I have no idea what you're talking about in this thread...

I am also in a thorough state of confusion.

Does that bit in FF VIII where you have to punch and kick some guy in a spacesuit while flying outside Gardern count?

Retr0gamer

grimloch wrote:

I am also in a thorough state of confusion.

Does that bit in FF VIII where you have to punch and kick some guy in a spacesuit while flying outside Gardern count?

In a way. you'd have to play Shenmue, Resi 4, God of War (and if you haven't then why the hell not?) or any of the other games listed to understand what we are on about.

CiDeRmAn

Best ever use of this was in Conker on the N64 and later the Xbox.
You have just finished watching the opening movie toddle along drunkedly and get called over to an equally drunk scarecrow planted in the ground, while standing in front of him you see a lightbulb over you head which the scarecrow goes on to explain is where you need to push a button, as here it is context sensitive, its very funny, as is the whole game.

Retr0gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Best ever use of this was in Conker on the N64 and later the Xbox.
You have just finished watching the opening movie toddle along drunkedly and get called over to an equally drunk scarecrow planted in the ground, while standing in front of him you see a lightbulb over you head which the scarecrow goes on to explain is where you need to push a button, as here it is context sensitive, its very funny, as is the whole game.

Thats more an example of context sensitive action button rather than contect sensitive cutscenes that we are on about.

Anyway that was a feature first pioneered by Ocarina of Time and is now being used in a whole heap of games including Resi 4.

johnny_ultimate

For those wondering what we are talking about, here's an example from the worst offender, Spiderman 3. As you can see, once a certain amount of damage has been done, a mini game pops up in which you have to press a designated number of buttons as they appear on the screen, in ever increasing amounts. (apologies for the quality):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loklh_3FxTI

Forgot about Tomb Raider Legend. That was the game that started my hatred for the things - very much interrupt the flow of the game on occasion (e.g. a certain motorcycle jump in the Japan level).
As for God of War - some of it is handled very well indeed. But when you have to fight the Medusas, the context sensitive minigame is truly irritating, when you have to rotate the analog sticks in a certain direction.

weemcd

jaysis, that spierman clip is awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLIVtfSUWEY

^ clip of god of war for psp, more the way it should be done, and a way that doesn't annoy me as much.

Retr0gamer

johnny_ultimate wrote:

As for God of War - some of it is handled very well indeed. But when you have to fight the Medusas, the context sensitive minigame is truly irritating, when you have to rotate the analog sticks in a certain direction.

Thought that was the highlight of the context sensitive actions for me. Nothing quite like twisting a medusa's head off by twisting the analogue sticks.

L31mr0d

its basically going to be a choice between a static cutscene in the middle of the fight, or a context sensitive cutscene. IMO, i'd rather it be context sensitive as it still allows for the player to feel like they have some control over the outcome regardless of it its been prerecorded.

humanji

Retr0gamer wrote:

Thats more an example of context sensitive action button rather than contect sensitive cutscenes that we are on about.

Anyway that was a feature first pioneered by Ocarina of Time and is now being used in a whole heap of games including Resi 4.

Would of said Dragons Lair pioneered it, considering the whole games was a bunch of context sensitive scenes put together.

Retr0gamer

humanji wrote:

Would of said Dragons Lair pioneered it, considering the whole games was a bunch of context sensitive scenes put together.

We are all getting confused here thanks to ciderman. The context sensitive button pioneered in ocarina of time is the use of a single button (in this case the A button) to preform a huge number of actions depending on the situation, example the function of the button changing from roll to open if you are standing in front of a door.

Dragons lair pioneered the context sensitive action cutscenes that this thread was originally about.

Edit: For my own stupidity and to help humanji's confusion which was more than likely due to my terrible grasp of grammar.

humanji

My brain hurts

po0k

That'd be the neural feedback loop that's been activated in the last dash update.

Winning Hand

Kiith wrote:

Never blame Shenmue for anything, except maybe kicking a whole lot of ass (and leaving me bitterly dissapointed with the 2nd ending :mad: )

'Do you know where there are any sailors?'

FranchisePlayer

Winning Hand wrote:

'Do you know where there are any sailors?'

Yeah i remeber first hearing that when I first played it rofl:D

K.O.Kiki

I see...

TheAlmightyArse

L31mr0d wrote:

its basically going to be a choice between a static cutscene in the middle of the fight, or a context sensitive cutscene. IMO, i'd rather it be context sensitive as it still allows for the player to feel like they have some control over the outcome regardless of it its been prerecorded.

But... all it really means is that you have to watch the cutscene you've just watched again, because you failed to press x quickly enough at some arbitrary point. Given that most videogame cutscenes are weary enough on the first viewing, it doesn't really make for good times. And on the odd occassion that the scene's director is skilled enough to draw you in, why pull the player right back out at the climax by making them think, "Oh **** I've got a controller in my hands and I have to mangle it oh sit too late!" It's not immersive; it's lazy.

The medusa's head and so on in God of War get away with it by properly incorptorating them into the gameplay mechanics. It doesn't feel like your pressing any old button at any old time just because its flashed up on the screen. It's predictible, has consistent reuslts and is essentially part of an attack combo. It's part of the game.

Cutscenes aren't parts of games, really. They're seperate, little films interspersed with the game. Imagine watching a film on DVD and having to rewatch certain scenes if you didn't keep pressing buttons on your remote. It's sweaty rancid gash.

Balfa

L31mr0d wrote:

its basically going to be a choice between a static cutscene in the middle of the fight, or a context sensitive cutscene.

Why on earth would it be a choice between those two? Don't we get the obvious and most commonly implemented choice of actually having controls to do certain actions any time we like? In Metal Gear Solid 3, you press circle to grab someone, then square to use him as a human shield, and shoot his mate, then L3 to interrogate him, then press circle firmly to slash his throat.

We don't do it because they flash CIRCLE! SQUARE! L3! CIRCLE (HARD)! on the screen. We do it because the instruction book says you can press circle to grab and enemy, you can press square to use a grabbed enemy as a shield and aim your pistol, you can press L3 to interrogate a grabbed enemy, and you can press circle firmly while holding an enemy to slit his throat.

I've not seen these "fluid, graceful" moves in spiderman 3, but seeing this in action in MGS3 is fantastically fluid and graceful. And what's more the player doesn't have "no hope to accomplish" the above-mentioned feat, because the developer made an effort to design the game so you could do what you want, when you want to. I'm sure if spiderman 3 was developed by hideo kojima, there'd be an intuitive, fun way to achieve whatever it is you're talking about in the game without it being impossible for mere mortal humans or being diluted to game of joypad follow-the-leader.

My cousin had one of them toys that flashed blue, blue, green, red, green and then you had to press the same buttons in order. That was fun, but I was six years old at the time.

All that said, it hadn't bothered me that much in RE4 beforenow, but on hindsight it does draw you out of the experience and is a bit frustrating when you're not ready for it. Now I'm going to get irritated with it all the time. Thanks a lot, retr0 :P