03 Passat 1.8T - Oil change indicator problem

FrankGrimes

I just bought an 03 Passat 1.8T from Motorvation yesterday and am so far loving the car, but the oil change indicator is now coming on and staying on so I'm a bit concerned about that.

I drove it (relatively hard) for 3 hourse yesterday and then the oil change indicator light came on (no flashes or beeps just came on and stays on). I checked the oil level and it's at the highest allowable level so am at a loss. Manual says to stop driving and seek expert help immediately.

I've tried searching on the web and though I've found nothing identical, some horror stories from similar situations have me worried - stories like oil sludge starving the oil pump resulting in engine failure are not what I need to be hearing!

I'll be taking it back to them first thing in the morning, but want to see if anyone has any experience of this problem and what it might relate to.

maidhc

FrankGrimes wrote:

I've tried searching on the web and though I've found nothing identical, some horror stories from similar situations have me worried - stories like oil sludge starving the oil pump resulting in engine failure are not what I need to be hearing!

Are you sure it isn't an the oil pressure light?

If so it could be something simple (like the pressure sender), or something awful like the above. Sadly, something awful is the more likely, and you shouldn't drive the car until it is sorted.

ciarsd

Was it driven 'relatively hard' from cold?

crosstownk

Is this light a red (or yellow) oil can or is it the words "Oil service"?


If it's red then it's an oil pressure problem. If it's yellow then it's the oil level indicator. If it is the Oil Service indicator then the display is telling you that the car needs a service. It should have been serviced by Motorvation before you took delivery, but they may have forgotten to reset the indicator. The manual will tell you how to reset it if you want to do it yourself.

If you're in any doubt contact Julian (Service Mgr) at Motorvation.

FrankGrimes

Thanks for the input.

It's a yellow/orange colour (defo not red) and is just the oil can symbol - so hopefully it is just they didn't reset it when they did the service. What worried me was that it only appeared after about my first 2 hours of driving and Motorvation seemed very good in all aspects of my dealings with them so I wouldn't have expected them to just forget to reset it (but hopefully it is just that). The manual also says 'The oil level warning will be deleted when the bonnet is opened', but it stayed on even after I checked the oil level.

Those horror stories a quick google on 'passat oil indicator problem' did get the heart racing though (i.e. oil sludge blocks oil pump...total engine seizure sometime later) - are they just rare occurences or is it something I should be worried about?

Looking at the log book the car seems to have had only 2 services (in Belgard Motors) in the 4 years before Motorvation got it in April (both involved oil changes, with the first including a note saying 'long life oil'). I guess I really should've looked into the service history a bit more, but tbh I didn't really know what I was looking for and just flicked through the book and thought 'there's a few entries in there so it seems grand'.

What's the best practice I can take to avoid any issues like that (i.e. which oil to use, how often to service, and what to get done in those services)?

crosstownk

OK - the yellow oil can is a 'Low Oil Level Indicator'. If the oil level is OK on the dipstick then there is most likely a fault with the level sensor. I've seen quite a few of these give trouble on Passats.

Don't worry about all the horror stories at this stage. If the red oil can light comes on then you'd have something to worry about.

I reckon if you get the sensor replaced all will be well.

Two services in four years on a VW with longlife intervals is about right. In order to stick to long life intervals you will need to but the correct oil - something ike Castrol SLX. If the car's service indicator is reset correctly then all you need to do is wait until the dash panel tells you that a service is due. There is no set interval as the interval varies depending on driving conditions.

_Kaiser_

OP, I had the same problem as you with my 02 Passat 1.9 TDI a few months back. As Crosstownk says it was the oil sensor that was at fault.

Just keep an eye on the level (something we all do anyway, right folks ) in the meantime till you get it checked out.

FrankGrimes

Right...feel like a total dope for making the mistake, but instead of let it go and pretend it was the oil indicator here it is: I didn't drive the car yesterday in case it caused damage. Got into car to drive it to garage today and noticed I'd feckin misread the manual - it wasn't the oil level indicator at all, it was actually the engine emissions warning light.

As soon as I drove it again I could feel it was underpowered and the misfiring references I found on web made sense.

Took it back to Motorvation who were very helpful - they used the diagnostic computer (have to get myself one of them VAG-COM cables off ebay) and said that yes it was misfiring due to 2 of 4 coil packs being problematic.

They replaced the 2 with new ones out of the box and the indicator disappeared, power returned and all was well....for 2 hours until the indicator came back on and I was back to square one with lack of power. I'll go back to them tomorrow and here's hoping that if they replace the other 2 coil packs all will be well, and stay well.

Neilw

If it's the coil packs, all 4 should be replaced at once...usually when one goes the others will follow shortly after.
Make sure the garage replace the other two coil packs and you should be fine.

Neil.

crosstownk

Neilw wrote:

If it's the coil packs, all 4 should be replaced at once...usually when one goes the others will follow shortly after.
Make sure the garage replace the other two coil packs and you should be fine.

Neil.

I agree. But the problem is that if the car is under warranty/guarantee the dealer will only replace what is broken in the hope that the remaing coils will not pack in.

Tea drinker

Yeah, for your original worries regarding sludge, which you mostly hear about on US sites, I think this is because US dealers used cheaper oils (non synthetic) to change the oil. Also there is a very small oil filter that can be fitted for the 1.8t, but if you go to VW in Ireland they give you a huge old one, which apart from extra filtration carries a lot more oil => oil lasts longer. The big VW one is cheap 6-8 euro or so.
Anyway, lets face it, we don't get the same high temparatures here that they get abroad, which is harder on oil.
Lots of short journeys are bad for most cars, and can contribute to sludge. Synthetic helps here. Also driving the bejaysus out of the car (in particular a turbo car, as the turbo will cook the oil) then turning it off immediately is bad for it. Drive the car very gently in the last minute before you stop and this will help i.e. practically coasting. Some people let it tick over for a minute, but if you do the above with a good fully synthetic it will be ok.
The 1.8t are a good powerful easily modded car but they have their needs and quirks.

BTW how much did you pay for it? How many miles?... sorry but I'm nosy by nature!:)

FrankGrimes

So I took the car back again today and they hooked up the diagnostic machine again and it said that the problem this time was actually something to do with the camshaft. He said it might be the sensor but they had to take it in for a day to work on it. He said he'd replace the other 2 coil packs for me to save me coming back for those soon enough.

Here's hoping they get to the bottom of it and that it's the end of it, though again they were a pleasure to deal with and gave me a nice 02 Jaguar to drive while my car is in with them.

FrankGrimes

Tea drinker wrote:

Yeah, for your original worries regarding sludge, which you mostly hear about on US sites, I think this is because US dealers used cheaper oils (non synthetic) to change the oil. Also there is a very small oil filter that can be fitted for the 1.8t, but if you go to VW in Ireland they give you a huge old one, which apart from extra filtration carries a lot more oil => oil lasts longer. The big VW one is cheap 6-8 euro or so.
Anyway, lets face it, we don't get the same high temparatures here that they get abroad, which is harder on oil.
Lots of short journeys are bad for most cars, and can contribute to sludge. Synthetic helps here. Also driving the bejaysus out of the car (in particular a turbo car, as the turbo will cook the oil) then turning it off immediately is bad for it. Drive the car very gently in the last minute before you stop and this will help i.e. practically coasting. Some people let it tick over for a minute, but if you do the above with a good fully synthetic it will be ok.
The 1.8t are a good powerful easily modded car but they have their needs and quirks.

BTW how much did you pay for it? How many miles?... sorry but I'm nosy by nature!:)

Thanks for the info Tea_drinker. The mechanic told me to use 10w40 semi-synthetic oil as fully synthetic might be too fine for the engine. Is it a case of either or, or is there a particular oil (and brand) I should go for?

I'm not very familiar with the workings of the turbo - does it only kick in when you floor the accelerator or is it always adding power? I rarely floor it and don't accelerate very fast in general.

It's an 03 with 55k miles on it, comfortline with loads of extras and I got it for €13,250 plus my 99D Astra, which they gave me 3k for (which was a good price due to its 93k miles and poor body work).

FrankGrimes

An update on this saga:

So they took the car back for a day and a half last week - he said the camshaft sensor needed to be replaced so they did that and he took it for a 40 mile test drive and then said it was 100%. He also said he hadn't been able to replace the 2 remaining coil packs as "there's none left in Ireland at the moment and it'll be 2 weeks before I can get any".

I drove for an hour or 2 on Thursday (the day I got it back), didn't drive at all on Friday and then the poxy emissions warning light came on again as I was on my way down to a wedding in Carlow on Saturday. It's been underpowered ever since - here's hoping that it will be solved by replacing the other 2 coil packs and that the irate call they'll be getting tomorrow leads to a shorter lead-time for those 2 new coil packs.

crosstownk

FrankGrimes wrote:

He also said he hadn't been able to replace the 2 remaining coil packs as "there's none left in Ireland at the moment and it'll be 2 weeks before I can get any"

To be fair to the lads in Motorvation, this is probably what they are being told by the VW dealer that they are buying the parts from. Sometimes VW parts, when out of stock in Ireland, can take some time to arrive - uaually 3-4 working days. But if the parts are on back order in Germany then it's how long is a piece of string. And the VW attitude doesn't help. It's a crazy situation, but thats the way VW operate. Crap when you consider that most other makes and models can have parts shipped in from other EU countries in less that 24 hours.

FrankGrimes

The saga continues...

They came out to me in work on Wednesday and replaced the final 2 coil packs, but he said the diagnostic machine actually indicated the problem was the 'long term fuel trim'. He said he'd look into what that involved and would get onto me later in the week if he has any updates. Didn't hear back and the car was working fine wih no warning lights until yesterday the poxy emergency emissions warning light came on again.

They've been very decent in the way they've handled it, bu naturally I'm a bit fed up with it at the moment. He did say they might have to give it to VW to figure out if the light comes on again, so looks like I might be using a replacement car for a while if that happens.

Any ideas on what 'long term fuel trim' problem means?

FrankGrimes

...right, hopefully this is the last update in this saga...fingers crossed....

They eventually had to take the car back in again and they stripped it down and found that a breather valve was the cause of the problem.

Apparently that's at the bottom of the engine and hard to get to which is why they had to strip it down. Anyway, they're pretty confident that was the root cause and it should be the end of the issue, hence the crossed fingers.

I got it back today and all is well so far. Does anyone know of similar cases, what causes it, and how to prevent it happening again? Thanks

Tea drinker

There can be problems with the breather valve on these cars.
Even well maintained they can have it. Just keep an eye out for leaks etc for a few weeks and hopefully that's it behind you.
I use 0w40 mobil1, but some people say that the best mobil 1 is the 10w40, as it is more stable. I do a lot of cold start driving, and don't tear the hole out of it, so it's perfect for me.
Using a good synth can help prevent sludge problems. I don't know if using something like shell v-power petrol helps offset these problems...
I guess just take it handy before you shut down the engine, keep the oil changed regularly - with the big filter, avoid short journeys if possible (better for your health too!).
I wouldn't worry too much just keep an eye on things for a while, might be no harm to bring it back in a few weeks just for them to check for any new codes and see if there are any leaks.
Hopefully you will relax and enjoy driving it again:)

Tea drinker

crosstownk wrote:

But if the parts are on back order in Germany then it's how long is a piece of string. And the VW attitude doesn't help. It's a crazy situation, but thats the way VW operate. Crap when you consider that most other makes and models can have parts shipped in from other EU countries in less that 24 hours.

I have been waiting a while for a few hoses to come in, they had one in stock and the other is well... somewhere. Who knows.
Also got wrong parts in correctly labelled unopened box, which is seriously bad. It's a pity they can't sort that parts situation out, Germans can be great for sticking to processes.... but that's bad when the process doesn't work!