Nines v Chief? - comments please

Brayruit

SE scalps tournament last night

16/17 remain. Blinds 200/400. My stack c. 11k; Villain about 15k. Average about 13k.

Based on descriptions I have read here I think that the villain is "Chief Brody". I have not played with him before (I am infrequently in the SE), but my understanding is that he is a somewhat unusual LAG.

Tables were broken 2 orbits ago, and Chief has been away from the table for about 1 orbit. The only hand I have seen him play was to steal (and show) from the button with 23 on a checked raggy flop which I thought was fairly standard. I have limped once in that time and folded to a raise so I am probably seen as tight.

Anyone who was playing with me at previous table (does not include Chief) will know that I have been paying pretty standard TAG.

Folded around to Chief in CO - raise to 2000

I have 2 nines on the button and raise to 5k.

Chief thinks for a little while and calls.

Flops comes K74r (or similar)

Chief checks and I....

RoundTower

well you have most of your stack in there, I would go all in.

cardshark202

Push or check and call/push turn are both fine here.

Brayruit

I'm wondering whether the fact that it's the Chief makes any difference... not suggesting it does, just wondering if anyone who is familiar with him would be more cautious before / after the flop?

jimmii

If you think he'll call with a hand you beat may as well get it in now. If you think he'll fold then check and hope he bets a weaker hand on the turn unless you want to just take the pot down uncontested which looks like a decent idea as 16k/17k gives you some play at 200/400.

Flushdraw

Brayruit wrote:

I'm wondering whether the fact that it's the Chief makes any difference... not suggesting it does, just wondering if anyone who is familiar with him would be more cautious before / after the flop?

Against the chief, you're better off pushing preflop because there isnt too many favourable flops your going to see with 99. The fact he checks the flop, usually means he hit some of it. He will tend to lead if he's playing a smaller pair or ace high. I think his check means he has K10/KJ.

Glowingmind

Tough Spot.

The Chief checking here means you're in trouble a lot of the time. Against him, if i'm planning on moving a lot of chips in, i'm moving them all in preflop as FD said.

Brayruit

Flushdraw wrote:

Against the chief, you're better off pushing preflop because there isnt too many favourable flops your going to see with 99. The fact he checks the flop, usually means he hit some of it. He will tend to lead if he's playing a smaller pair or ace high. I think his check means he has K10/KJ.

That's what I was kinda thinking at the time... but did not feel that I knew him well enough (Wasn't 100% sure it was even the right guy)... Would have felt like a complete eejit if I had pushed all in pre flop and been called by AA-QQ.

Is he that predictable that you always think that a check post flop is dangerous?

Flushdraw

Brayruit wrote:

That's what I was kinda thinking at the time... but did not feel that I knew him well enough (Wasn't 100% sure it was even the right guy)... Would have felt like a complete eejit if I had pushed all in pre flop and been called by AA-QQ.

Is he that predictable that you always think that a check post flop is dangerous?

Of course theres always a chance that he has AA-QQ here but he also raises with far worse from position, as do most good players! The difference is that most good players throw away marginal hands when you reraise them but the chief finds it hard to let go of a bad ace, bad king or other rubbish.

He's not transparent in his play but i do hate when he checks a flop. I prefer him to come out firing!

BuChan

tricky, he would check if he had a K or AA but i think AA is pretty unlikely as he raised x5BB preflop indicating a probable attempted steal. if you check behind on the flop he'll bet the turn regardless of what he has. i would push, chief probably has a weak A, small pair, Q10/9, J10/9 or something like that which he wouldn't lay down preflop since your raise was small. you're push might even turn out to be a sick value bet as he might call with A7

Brayruit

I pushed, he called and showed KQ. The kings held up so this was my exit hand.

Thx for comments.

valor

dont know villain but I really dislike your preflop raise, id just shove

Brayruit

valor wrote:

dont know villain but I really dislike your preflop raise, id just shove

I see that often - including from good players - but I just don't play that way ... I don't get it to be honest.

Why put it all on the line with 99 when I have >25BBs left. I get him to lay down worse hands, but he's probably calling with all the hands that beat me or race me and his range includes a decent proportion of those.

I don't like racing for all my chips over and over.

You might say that it's all going in after the flop anyway seeing as nearly half my stack is in there, but I prob would have thrown it away with an A high flop to a bet - maybe even K high if I believed I was beaten.

Oh God, I think I might be weak tight

Jayminator

If the chief checks a flop he has hit it... Simple as... If the board throws up a flush draw the chief bets it... simple as... If the chief bets the flop he most likely has missed.. simple as... And if he bets the flop and you go over the top he ll check his cards dwell for 30 seconds then fold.

If you had more table time with him you might of pushed, however he is very capable of calling an all in with some very dodgy marginal hands and then declare ''ya have to mix it up'' or ''he thought I had this that or the other'' or post flop quotes are more like ''ya see how i won that pot was this that an the other''... He very often comments on his own fantastic play after the hand so its best to just sit there chuckle quietly to oneself and take it all in..

As FDraw has said he plays some very marginal hands and will find it very difficult to lay down anything below A9 or his KQ picture card range. Even to a raise and a re raise..

What you deffo dont wanna hear is his favourite quote of all time and that is ''You ve been chiefed''......... Hilarious but true.. The chief is a jem but quite predictable

mewso

I think the point is that any raise pre-flop pretty much commits you to the hand. You are a big favorite against your opponents range pre-flop and on the flop alot of cards will look bad to you so the push is probably the best move and if he calls and you're in a race then fine.

Saying you don't want to push because you have 25BB is not really valid if you are planning on re-raising and putting half your chips in pre-flop anyway.

Hectorjelly

Your preflop play is really bad, he makes it 2k and you make it only 3k more - forcing him to call. Either call his raise, or go all in. The worst thing you want to do is put close to half of your stack in and force him to see a flop when you have 99.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

of course, the chief would probably call an all-in with K-Q, so it was going to work out the same way anyway. Providing no-one else was in the hand.

Brayruit

Hectorjelly wrote:

Your preflop play is really bad, he makes it 2k and you make it only 3k more - forcing him to call. Either call his raise, or go all in. The worst thing you want to do is put close to half of your stack in and force him to see a flop when you have 99.

I'm sure you are correct, but....

Ignoring that it was the Chief for a moment, is a raise to 5k not more aggressive against a thinking player? (btw that is not to say that the chief is not thinking, I don't know him well enough to say one way or the other)

How shallow does your stack have to be before you are going to shove 9s or similar from the button against a single LP raiser? If the answer is that it is once a reraise is going to be > half the stack, does that not imply that you are increasing the potential exit points in any tournament? That doesn't feel right...

Bandana boy

Brayruit wrote:

is a raise to 5k not more aggressive against a thinking player? ..

erm No

not when he has made it 2000 already its nearly a min raise only 3K!

you want to raise at least 5K and if your putting 7K in of your 11K you should shove

BuChan

Brayruit wrote:

I'm sure you are correct, but....

Ignoring that it was the Chief for a moment, is a raise to 5k not more aggressive against a thinking player? (btw that is not to say that the chief is not thinking, I don't know him well enough to say one way or the other)

How shallow does your stack have to be before you are going to shove 9s or similar from the button against a single LP raiser? If the answer is that it is once a reraise is going to be > half the stack, does that not imply that you are increasing the potential exit points in any tournament? That doesn't feel right...

what do you mean by more aggressive? do you mean that good players will automatically think you have AA or KK because you made a small raise and fold preflop, that seems unlikely. i think players will call here with a wide range that you don't look great against. broadway cards, j10 and the other 10+face card family, sooted A... and then be commited if they hit the flop so unless the board is all less than 8 or there is a 9 there you're in a tough spot. i think 99 in late position/in the blinds against 1 raise from a very aggressive player is a pretty strong hand, more than enough to push as a lot of hands you're 50/50 against will fold. possible the chief might not have put that much of his stack in with KQ............. possible but only just

Brayruit

Bandana boy wrote:

erm No

lol ... are you politely calling me an idiot?

also to Buchan...

What I mean by aggressive is that all in can seem like a weaker move than a less than all in raise. Perhaps in this case that is not so because of the stack size.

What would your (Bandana, Buchan, Hector Jelly, anyone else) opinion be if the stacks were 25k... or 50k?

Lazare

Brayruit wrote:

lol ... are you politely calling me an idiot?

also to Buchan...

What I mean by aggressive is that all in can seem like a weaker move than a less than all in raise. Perhaps in this case that is not so because of the stack size.

What would your (Bandana, Buchan, Hector Jelly, anyone else) opinion be if the stacks were 25k... or 50k?

I would flat call if that deep, you've more than enough odds, and add in the fact that you'll get full implied odds if he also hits.