annoying river spot.

robinlacey

really enjoyed that last thread i posted,so i might start posting some hands here,i never really bothered before cause i'm fairly lazy but i'm trying to get into the habit of thinking/posting more about poker,as well as playing more.

this might be really simple stuff but i found it kind of annoying.

5/10 6 max.

no reads on villain,he just sat down.

i've been playing quite agressively,firing quite a few second barrells and so on.

folded to me in the SB,i make it 35 with AA,BB calls,he has about 900.

flop 7 T K, two spades.

i bet 60 into 70,he calls.

turn is an A,i bet 150 into 190,he calls.

river is the 4 of spades,completing the flush draw.

so i've got about 500 in the pot,say 700 left to go in.

this is a really annoying situation,i've got top set,but then again if i push/bet the pot is he really going to call with less than QJ?

if i check,however,he checks behind with any hands that i beat,and pushes anything that beats me.

i mean i almost feel like check folding,since any hand he has with showdown value that i beat will check behind,and he can't be bluffing since all the draws have hit.

this feels horribly weak,so should i just bet and hope the times he calls with two pair outweight the times he has me crushed?

BrokenArrows

Id go for a check fold to a push here against an unknown

FredsWebHead

I'd fire again and go broke here. If he has observed you second barrelling he probably calls you lighter than you may think

ianmc38

Horrible spot. I'd definitely check the river and probably fold to a push. I think JQ is a huge part of his range here.

pok3rplaya

He doesn't have a set or 2pair
He likely RR KQ pf, maybe even KJ.

c/f, you beat nothing.

cardshark202

I would c/c a small bet, fold to a push here.

robinlacey

cardshark202 wrote:

I would c/c a small bet, fold to a push here.

what makes you think there are more hands in his range that i beat that will make a thin value bet if checked to than hands that will check behind but can call a bet?

ianmc38

I dont think 2 pair or a set will call a bet here. Straights and flushes will definitely call a bet. I think 2 pair/sets will probably check behind here thinking there hand is good. The only reason I can see to bet here is as a bluff representing the flush.

robinlacey

i think its too likely that he has a flush to bet and represent one.
i do think two pair or a set might call a bet here,given that its a blind battle

Lazare

I check call here.
Since he just sat down, your image doesn't really matter, but I reckon a lot of the time he's calling you down with Kx. It is blind on blind after all.

robinlacey

Lazare wrote:

I check call here.
Since he just sat down, your image doesn't really matter, but I reckon a lot of the time he's calling you down with Kx. It is blind on blind after all.

do you not think he will check behind with Kx?

cardshark202

robinlacey wrote:

what makes you think there are more hands in his range that i beat that will make a thin value bet if checked to than hands that will check behind but can call a bet?

I don't know how aggressively you play and how likely you are to try and triple barrel on a board like this but I would imagine it would be close to never. So betting this river is super strong. I think its more likely that he might try squeeze value out of 2 pair/set then it is that he makes a hero call on the river with a hand you beat. I don't think its too likely that he will try a thin value bet here, but it is slightly less unlikely that he does imo.

dougee19

push!!!!!!!!
defo
you have aaa, you're ahead



and yes i do know people post on here with losing hands so you obviously lose it all... but i would too
calling 150 on turn with a flush draw is **** play, unless he had like a gutshot!!!! or a pair and a flush draw... who knows...
push!!!!

fuzzbox

Anybody like betting 250 and folding to a shove?

Probably nobody.

250 is half pot, and he might look you up with AK or some other two pair type hand. And he is very unlikely to raise with a hand that you beat (like that same AK or KKK or a stone bluff).

???

I'm not a big fan of chk/call cos villain usually has either A. a made hand that is not so great on this board and will check behind, or B. a hand that beats ours like a flush or QJ. So if we chk/call then he only bets the hands that beat us.

Comments appreciated.

TacT

fuzzbox wrote:

Anybody like betting 250 and folding to a shove?

Probably nobody.

250 is half pot, and he might look you up with AK or some other two pair type hand. And he is very unlikely to raise with a hand that you beat (like that same AK or KKK or a stone bluff).

???

I'm not a big fan of chk/call cos villain usually has either A. a made hand that is not so great on this board and will check behind, or B. a hand that beats ours like a flush or QJ. So if we chk/call then he only bets the hands that beat us.

Comments appreciated.

I was going to suggest this but with a slightly more marginal bet of 200

Ste05

I think if there was ever a time for a bluff-raise (even though it'd be a bet) this is it, I just have a feeling that a push *might* fold out a straight and *might* get a hero call from a lower set. Obviously a flush is insta-calling.

It's a really tricky spot, I can see myself check-calling, check-folding and pushing based on my image and how I view the Villain, it's such a tricky spot, and because it's blind on blind it really complicates things.

I just really think a draw would have pushed at some stage in the hand, how many 5/10 players will call down with a draw, unless it's something like QJs?

Really tricky spot.

I'm not sure about bet folding, because of the size of the pot and stack sizes, if we bet 250 or even 200 the pot will be 1250 or 1200 respectively and it'll be 250 or 300 to call. I agree it's unlikely to be a bluff, but less than one time in 5/4? I just think if I bet I'd have to call a push, it might be a set not believing us for a str8 or flush, and putting us on 2 pair.

Really interesting hand Robin, keep them coming.

fuzzbox

Ste05 wrote:

I'm not sure about bet folding, because of the size of the pot and stack sizes, if we bet 250 or even 200 the pot will be 1250 or 1200 respectively and it'll be 250 or 300 to call.

500 pot now, with 700 behind. bet 250, if he shoves, yeah its 450 to call to win 1450, but he very very rarely shows up with a worse hand when he does shove (if ever)

If it was 700 pot with 500 behind, then I like a shove I think.

dougee19

Ste05 wrote:

I just have a feeling that a push *might* fold out a straight and *might* get a hero call from a lower set.

i had that feeling about 2 pair :P

Ste05

fuzzbox wrote:

500 pot now, with 700 behind. bet 250, if he shoves, yeah its 450 to call to win 1450, but he very very rarely shows up with a worse hand when he does shove (if ever)

If it was 700 pot with 500 behind, then I like a shove I think.

Oh yeah I misread somewhere, I thought there was only 500 left to go in somehow.

In which case I actually quite like the 250 bet fold line. I can see him making a call with a worse hand and with a straight and pushing with a flush. Even though I still think either of those draws would have pushed somewhere in the earlier streets, but I suppose he may well have just called down, certainly I can't really see him value pushing with a worse hand or bluffing in this spot, although the 250 does look alot like the blocking bet it is, but it would take some big balls to try a bluff on this board.

dougee19

i thought the exact same as ste.... post wasnt edited was it???
was convinced it was 500 left in stack. my bad, dont know what i would do. dont want to think...
work away lads

pok3rplaya

fuzzbox wrote:

Probably nobody.

Haha nice bit of reverse psychology to get people to agree with you!

robinlacey

the more i think about this its either a bet or a check fold,i don't like check calling at all.

these spots are tough cause they come up reasonably regularly,not the exact same thing but the same situation of being out of position with a very strong hand that isn't nearly as strong given the board texture and action.

i think in this particular situation,given that its a blind battle the best thing is to probably bet and let him make a big call,if it wasn't a blind battle i might lean towards check folding.

fuzzbox i usually hate block betting but in this particular instance you might be onto something,betting 250 and folding to a push might be a good idea.

cardshark202

Yeah the block bet has one me over. Nice one fuzz.